Episcopal diocese vote favors breakaway.

Bodin · Post by **Bodin** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:12 pm

By Jorene Barut-Phillips, Reuters | December 3, 2006

FRESNO, Calif. -- A California diocese of the Episcopal Church yesterday took a major step toward breaking with the US church because of its position on issues including homosexuality, a move unseen since the Civil War.

Clergy and lay representatives at the annual convention of the 10,000-member Diocese of San Joaquin voted, 176 to 28, in favor of the step, according to the Rev. Van McCalister, a spokesman for the diocese that represents 48 parishes in central California's San Joaquin Valley.

If the measure passes again next year, it would allow for the development of a new church that officials say would break from the leadership of the new head of the Episcopal Church, Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, while remaining part of the worldwide Anglican Church.

Individual parishes have left the church in recent years, but yesterday's move marks the first time since the Civil War that an entire diocese has voted to distance itself from the church, McCalister said.

Officials from the Episcopal Church Center in New York were not immediately available for comment.

Jefferts Schori, 52, condones the blessings of gay relationships and supported the church's 2003 consecration of a gay bishop in New Hampshire. Some in the church saw that event as a crack in its foundation, prompting at least one priest to resign.

"Homosexuality is just one symptom of how the church has lowered its view," said McCalister. "The key issue, however, is the ecclesiastical structure that recognizes the authority of the Bible, as it has for about two millenniums. We're not bringing in anything new."

The measure, an amendment to the diocese's constitution, seeks to "maintain solidarity with the rest of the Anglican Communion," or family, McCalister said. Other conservative US Episcopal bishops have asked for placement under the jurisdiction of more orthodox overseas leaders.

"A congregation is judged according to its faithfulness and what it stands for," said the Rev. John Riebe of All Saints Episcopal Church in Bakersfield, who voted with the majority.

The Episcopal Church is a branch of the 77-million member Worldwide Anglican Communion, a loose federation of national churches around the world. Jefferts Schori leads 2.4 million followers in the United States.

The former Oregon State University professor last month became the first female leader in the history of the Episcopal and Anglican churches.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... breakaway/

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:01 am

Jefferts Schori makes me sick. I wonder if she's actually read the bible. :mystery:

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:43 pm

I don't see what a Kelly Clarkson song has to do with religion.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:51 pm

Narrock wrote:Jefferts Schori makes me sick. I wonder if she's actually read the bible.

Would you agree if I said the basic principle Jesus wanted to pass along was to be good to others, be they your friend, neighbor, relative, stranger, or enemy?

If so, please explain why someone chosing to perpetuate the teachings of Jesus Christ, our saviour, in an unorthodox fashion that welcomes those who were previously alienated by the "Orthodox" is such a bad thing.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:52 pm

Since when is embracing homosexuality a Christian principle?

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:56 pm

nm, my bad

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:56 pm

Since when is turning away someone from the Church a Christian principle?

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:00 pm

What's wrong with a priest, pastor, etc. wanting to keep his church traditional? A clergyman who engages in homosexual behavior is being sacreligious. Think about it.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:02 pm

Which do you think is a more worthwhile cause?

Trying to stay traditional?
or
Bringing the teachings of Christ to all comers?

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:18 pm

10sun wrote:Which do you think is a more worthwhile cause?

Trying to stay traditional?
or
Bringing the teachings of Christ to all comers?

Way to avoid answering my questions...

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:22 pm

10sun wrote:
Narrock wrote:Jefferts Schori makes me sick. I wonder if she's actually read the bible.

Would you agree if I said the basic principle Jesus wanted to pass along was to be good to others, be they your friend, neighbor, relative, stranger, or enemy?

If so, please explain why someone chosing to perpetuate the teachings of Jesus Christ, our saviour, in an unorthodox fashion that welcomes those who were previously alienated by the "Orthodox" is such a bad thing.

You never answered mine.

You tried to blur the lines between the tenants of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ and failed. My question asks ONLY about the teachings of Jesus. Nothing more.

Answer my questions and we can continue this discourse. Until then I will play your favorite game (edited).

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:19 pm

I'll answer your question 10sun: It is beter to stay traditional, than try to include ALL in your religion. By trying to appease all commers you lose the core and the goal.

Post by **Arlos** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:26 pm

The thing is though, Ganzo, I believe the argumetn is making is that if you look at the actions and words of Christ himself, he was VERY inclusive. Lepers then were looked at FAR worse at that time than gays are today, and yet he willingly and freely associated with any number of them, and included them in his ministry.

Thus the question of if Jesus himself would have accepted people of ALL kinds, regardless of stripe, even if they do not fit within the doctrine of the modern Christian Dogma.

-Arlos

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:33 pm

My responce was to general religion, not the case of Christ vs Homogay. In this instance, you would be dealing with exact rule (homosexuality is an abomination), vs your interpritation (WWJD). When you church starts going against your holly book, it's a question of Throw Away the Book, or Throw Away the Church. I'm always leaning toward church throwing myself.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:44 pm

I dont give a shit what the book says. I somehow have a hard time beleiving christ would turn people that wanted a relationship with him away.

Post by **Arlos** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:54 pm

Well, except that Christianity doesn't follow any of the other Levitican rules either, Ganzo, and that's where the "abomination" thing comes from. No christian prohibition against pork, shellfish, etc. So, why should they follow one rule from Leviticus, when they ignore the rest?

-Arlos

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:57 pm

Why Christians only choose to follow some rules and not the others is a question beond my understanding, my gues though, they follow what is convinient.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:00 pm

Ganzo wrote:Why Christians only choose to follow some rules and not the others is a question beond my understanding, my gues though, they follow what is convinient.

Jesus was a carpenter & you just hit the nail squarely on the head.
Are all Jewish guys good with hammers? :dunno:

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:00 pm

spazz wrote:I dont give a shit what the book says. I somehow have a hard time beleiving christ would turn people that wanted a relationship with him away.

There is already 5 billion difrent branches of christianity, why cant there be 5-th billion and one - the Homochristians. Don't bring your rules into someone elses house

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:01 pm

10sun wrote:
Ganzo wrote:Why Christians only choose to follow some rules and not the others is a question beond my understanding, my gues though, they follow what is convinient.

Jesus was a carpenter & you just hit the nail squarely on the head.
Are all Jewish guys good with hammers?

Duno but i'm a carpenter too, wanna start following me around writing down all my wisdom

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:02 pm

Hatred is convinient ??

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:02 pm

Ganzo wrote:
10sun wrote:
Ganzo wrote:Why Christians only choose to follow some rules and not the others is a question beond my understanding, my gues though, they follow what is convinient.

Jesus was a carpenter & you just hit the nail squarely on the head.
Are all Jewish guys good with hammers?
Duno but i'm a carpenter too, wanna start following me around writing down all my wisdom

Sure. What kind of pay do I get?

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:04 pm

10sun wrote:
Ganzo wrote:
10sun wrote:
Ganzo wrote:Why Christians only choose to follow some rules and not the others is a question beond my understanding, my gues though, they follow what is convinient.

Jesus was a carpenter & you just hit the nail squarely on the head.
Are all Jewish guys good with hammers?
Duno but i'm a carpenter too, wanna start following me around writing down all my wisdom

Sure. What kind of pay do I get?

Spiritual enrinchment

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm

Don't bring your rules into someone elses house

Thats bullshit. Everything ive heard bout jesus he wasnt a hater. To be creul and not include people who want to beleive over something so stupid is assnine. Id bet my life the anti gay shit in the bible is man putting words in gods mouth.

Post by **Ganzo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:22 pm

all this is, is your opinion, we can argue interpritations till Jesus comes back, and both be right