Alittle Ben Stein.........

[Zanchief]

Yes but Turista is a crap movie, and I doubt very much the bad guy wins in the end. Yet they did have violent movies back in the day, have you ever seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre?

99% of movies made these days have good characters as the main character, how has this changed?

When did I tell you religion was bad. I said Mindia was bad, and he is.

[vonkaar]

Okay, so you are all whiners.

I still find the whole thing incredibly simplistic. Things go bad, it's our fault and God isn't listening. Things are going good, it's God's will and obviously we are being blessed for our good deeds. That's totally fine and dandy in your own rosey world. Cool by me if you want to believe that. Just... Don't cram it down my throat if I don't care to subscribe -religious zealots are just as bad as jaded MTV-dogmatists.

I liked Mr. Stein's original points - you put up your Christmas tree, I'll put up my Agnost Shrub. If 'things' go bad, I'll blame Bush, not MTV. We can both believe as we want, live in harmony and all that jazz. You whine about your God who backed away and "let Katrina happen" (omg?!) because we non-believers complained too much... I'll whine about our shitty president who was elected by the naive religious neophytes who can't see past their own party checkbox. We can all be whiners in our own right. Wheeeeeee.

[Zanchief]

I'm just saying, Zanchief wasn't necessarily calling Ben Stein (ergo, the Jews) whiners =p.

No he was calling Christians whiners, and i pointed out that in this instance "Wine" was served by a Jew so the issue is of a broader spectrum

A quote is a quote, I don't care if Barney Rubble uses it at the lodge to impress his friends. The originator is yet another whiny Christian crying about discrimination.

So according to you, origin of a quote invalidates statement that it used in?

How about you worry about the context that I used it in, rather than the context of someone else down the chain.

[Zanchief]

Okay, so you are all whiners.

I still find the whole thing incredibly simplistic. Things go bad, it's our fault and God isn't listening. Things are going good, it's God's will and obviously we are being blessed for our good deeds. That's totally fine and dandy in your own rosey world. Cool by me if you want to believe that. Just... Don't cram it down my throat if I don't care to subscribe -religious zealots are just as bad as jaded MTV-dogmatists.

I liked Mr. Stein's original points - you put up your Christmas tree, I'll put up my Agnost Shrub. If 'things' go bad, I'll blame Bush, not MTV. We can both believe as we want, live in harmony and all that jazz. You whine about your God who backed away and "let Katrina happen" (omg?!) because we non-believers complained too much... I'll whine about our shitty president who was elected by the naive religious neophytes who can't see past their own party checkbox. We can all be whiners in our own right. Wheeeeeee.

I can get behind whining like that.

[Tikker]

. Lets brainwash everyone to worship MTV and be done with it

as opposed to being brainwashed to worship some invisible guy

[Ganzo]

I'm just saying, Zanchief wasn't necessarily calling Ben Stein (ergo, the Jews) whiners =p.

No he was calling Christians whiners, and i pointed out that in this instance "Wine" was served by a Jew so the issue is of a broader spectrum

A quote is a quote, I don't care if Barney Rubble uses it at the lodge to impress his friends. The originator is yet another whiny Christian crying about discrimination.

So according to you, origin of a quote invalidates statement that it used in?

How about you worry about the context that I used it in, rather than the context of someone else down the chain.

That's all i was saying to begin with

[Ganzo]

. Lets brainwash everyone to worship MTV and be done with it

as opposed to being brainwashed to worship some invisible guy

I'll take the invisial guy, give this choices

[Zanchief]

Quit being so naive, Ganz. The media isn't trying to brainwash you to fall in love celebrities, they're just trying to get paid so they're jumping on the demand of the people. But out of curiosity how does celebrity obsession interfere with divine worship? What's the correlation there?

[Ganzo]

You are moving away from the point of a discussion, that was just an observation not a lead point

Good try tho

[Zanchief]

Narrow down Ben's point then, he's a little all over the place.

[Ganzo]

Point is, that by taking away Faith(regardles of flavor) you leave a void that is filled by lowest needs in life: food/sex/power. Instead of striving to the higher calling, people try to feed the animal inside. And that 600 pound gorrilla inside of us all, won the battle for domminance in most already.

[Zanchief]

Well you assume people need is faith. I disagree.

[Arlos]

The other problem is, you cannot even begin to legislate faith, period.

Everyone in this country is absolutely free to worship whatever religion they so choose. The government certainly in no way attempts to stop anyone from woshipping God, Vishnu, Buddha, The Green Man, etc. etc. etc. as they see fit. THere are NO restrictions anywhere stopping people from having, practicing, and holding whatever faith they wish, anywhere in this country. (well, OK, you can be pretty persecuted in Salt Lake City if you're not mormon, but that's a different issue)

With complete freedom for private faith, I don't see what the sudden need is for there to be public displays of faith. That's just self-aggrandizement, really, or a way of being more-pious-than-thou. The fact that the government itself is a-religious does not mean it is in any way ANTI-religious. It MUST be a-religious or faiths different than the one sanctioned by the state will suffer, period.

So, if Ben Stein wants to bemoan the fact that less individuals have religious faith these days, then by all means, that's an understandable gripe, agree with him or not. But to claim that the GOVERNMENT should be associated with religious faith, that I cannot, and WILL NOT ever agree with, because that's not how it was framed under the Constitution, as supported by hundreds of years of tradition and who knows how many Supreme Court decisions that the government is and must be a-religious.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

I hope you're not being serious.

Feel free to leave if you can't keep up.

I can keep up with you any day of the week. It is rather frustrating arguing with an imbecille though who doesn't understand very basic concepts and is continuously illogical. Oh well, people never change.

[KaiineTN]

You sure about that Zanchief? I think people need faith in something, though that can be entirely non-religious. Take for example having faith/believing in yourself. You could have faith that things will be ok in the end, that you'll reach your goals. Faith in your family and friends. Faith in your hard work paying off.

Can you imagine life without having faith in anything at all? Wouldn't it be hollow, depressing, and reek of pessimism?

[Tikker]

You sure about that Zanchief? I think people need faith in something, though that can be entirely non-religious. Take for example having faith/believing in yourself. You could have faith that things will be ok in the end, that you'll reach your goals. Faith in your family and friends. Faith in your hard work paying off.

Can you imagine life without having faith in anything at all? Wouldn't it be hollow, depressing, and reek of pessimism?

i think by faith he means organized religion

[Ganzo]

you wrong, if i meant organised religion i'd say that

[mappatazee]

Anne Graham gave an
extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God
is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been
telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government
and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe
He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His
blessing and His protecti on if we demand He leave us alone?"

Okay I stopped reading. Ben Stein is a moron.

[brinstar]

HURRRRRRRRRR DAHURRRRRRRR ABLABLABLA HURRRRRRRRRRR DERRRRRRRRRRRRR BLUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

^_^

[Kaemon]

I believe in Ben's other points. Smack your child if the little fucker misbehave's. Fuck this time out shit, it doesn't work.

[Zanchief]

you wrong, if i meant organised religion i'd say that

Well your implication was that people need a belief in a higher power. I disagree with that statement. A person who doesn't believe in God functions just as well in society then someone who does. It makes no difference. Godless folks aren't anymore likely to be evil or lawless. That was more my point. Humans know right from wrong, they don't need a deity to tell them that.

[KaiineTN]

I agree with Zanchief, religion has very little to do with moral development. There's plenty of shitty religious people out there, and plenty of good agnostics/atheists. Society, on the other hand, has a significant influence on a young mind's concept of right and wrong, whether they are religious or not, and society definitely could use a revamp. A non-religious revamp.

[kinghooter00]

"I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been
telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government
and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe
He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His
blessing and His protecti on if we demand He leave us alone?"

See again the victim. Christians control EVERYTHING, and still they whine.

Nicely put.

[Tacks]

shut the fuck up, you stupid motherfucker

[Zanchief]

shut the fuck up, you stupid motherfucker

Nicely put.