San Diego, CA - January 11, 2007 - Sony Online Entertainment and Sigil Games Online today announced that the upcoming massively multiplayer online role-playing game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes will be released to retail outlets across North America and Europe on January 30, 2007, for the suggested retail price of US$49.99. A limited edition is also available for a suggested retail price of US$89.99.
Currently in beta, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes features vibrant environments reminiscent of oil paintings, a robust character customization tool and three distinct spheres of advancement in a seamless world without zoning or instancing. The immersive fantasy world is comprised of three massive, uniquely-themed continents for players to discover new creatures, new items and unlimited adventure. Players have complete freedom to roam the world whether flying dragons to islands in the sky or riding swift steeds to exotic lands.
Vanguard coming January 30th
Moderator: Dictators in Training
Vanguard coming January 30th
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
– C. S. Lewis
– C. S. Lewis
I logged in last night. I tried on and off to get in for about an hour, and then finally got in. No error messages when I couldn't, just waiting and then retrying.
Once I got in, things seemed to be working fine. But I ran around the area to the East of Brennan's Steed and it was VERY empty (and Brennan's Steed itself was locked or unavailable for me to travel to). I went quite a while along the beach and mountains without running into anything. But, I never crashed (once I got in)!
I think I'm not going to pre-order. I'll let others pay to test the game, and then come in later if it improves.
Once I got in, things seemed to be working fine. But I ran around the area to the East of Brennan's Steed and it was VERY empty (and Brennan's Steed itself was locked or unavailable for me to travel to). I went quite a while along the beach and mountains without running into anything. But, I never crashed (once I got in)!
I think I'm not going to pre-order. I'll let others pay to test the game, and then come in later if it improves.
Tacks wrote:I dunno, I just thought you would "settle" for something by now. You know nobody is ever going to make the game you want.
I dunno. I've become quite addicted to Wii Tennis. I figure that should last me at least as long as any modern MMO.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
– C. S. Lewis
– C. S. Lewis
It's obvious why it's happening. Same reason why they bought themselves out from under Microsoft: The money people are tired of throwing funds into what seems like a bottomless pit.
As I laid it out before, here's the saga of Vanguard:
1) Sigil was serially incapable of meeting ANY deliverable date while under Microsoft. Their release date was in a state of constant slippage, and wasn't even based on reality. Code was never done on time; they missed every single deadline (or nearly every, anyway).
2) Microsoft got tired of funding what was becoming to seem like an infinite development cycle, and droppeed the hammer: They gave Sigil an ultimatum and drop-dead date. Release on Day X, or we cut off all funding, period.
3) Brad knows damn well that there's no way in bloody hell that they'll be ready by that date, they won't even be close. So, he is in dire need of a white knight, and calls Smedley back at SOE, who he'd worked with before on EQ.
4) SOMEHOW, Brad manages to convince Smed that Sigil and Vanguard are worth investing boucoup bucks on.
5) SOE contacts Microsoft, offers to buy Sigil and the rights to Vanguard out from under them. Microsoft sets a price that completely recoups every dollar they'd spent on development of Vanguard to date, PLUS enough more to allow that division to be able to show a profit on the game.
6) SOE agrees. Microsoft cheerfully hands over the rights, laughs all the way to the bank, relieved at not only having been able to get rid of a fuckup development crew and a white elephant of a game, but be able to make a respectable profit margin on the entire process as well.
7) Sigil, now under SOE, continues it's old ways of never meeting deliverable dates, progressing amazingly slowly in their development cycle, and once again appearing to be a black hole of development dollars, with no viable release date in sight.
So, it seems obvious that at this point, SOE has gotten to the same point Microsoft got to what, last year? and is demanding release by a certain date or they turn the money tap off. Now, this last one I have no proof of, but certainly seems likely and does fit the observable facts of what's occuring. But 1 - 6 I know to be absolute incontrovertable facts, from a batphone source in a position to know all of what was really going on behind the scenes, and 7 was obvious from all the reports from the people participating in beta.
In any case, given how much SOE had to spend to get Sigil in the first place (unfortunately, exact $$$ amount I don't know), I'm a little bit surprised that they've given them such a short leash. Seems rather short-sighted to spend that much money, then shoot yourself in the foot with a forced early release. I honestly expected them to shoot for a summer release, far far away from the release of TBC, in a normally quieter time of year, but matched up to when most kids are out of school, and thus tons of time to get hooked on a new MMO. Then again, this *IS* SOE we're discussing here, and given their track record at forcing games out the door early, I shouldn't be THAT surprised, I guess.
-Arlos
As I laid it out before, here's the saga of Vanguard:
1) Sigil was serially incapable of meeting ANY deliverable date while under Microsoft. Their release date was in a state of constant slippage, and wasn't even based on reality. Code was never done on time; they missed every single deadline (or nearly every, anyway).
2) Microsoft got tired of funding what was becoming to seem like an infinite development cycle, and droppeed the hammer: They gave Sigil an ultimatum and drop-dead date. Release on Day X, or we cut off all funding, period.
3) Brad knows damn well that there's no way in bloody hell that they'll be ready by that date, they won't even be close. So, he is in dire need of a white knight, and calls Smedley back at SOE, who he'd worked with before on EQ.
4) SOMEHOW, Brad manages to convince Smed that Sigil and Vanguard are worth investing boucoup bucks on.
5) SOE contacts Microsoft, offers to buy Sigil and the rights to Vanguard out from under them. Microsoft sets a price that completely recoups every dollar they'd spent on development of Vanguard to date, PLUS enough more to allow that division to be able to show a profit on the game.
6) SOE agrees. Microsoft cheerfully hands over the rights, laughs all the way to the bank, relieved at not only having been able to get rid of a fuckup development crew and a white elephant of a game, but be able to make a respectable profit margin on the entire process as well.
7) Sigil, now under SOE, continues it's old ways of never meeting deliverable dates, progressing amazingly slowly in their development cycle, and once again appearing to be a black hole of development dollars, with no viable release date in sight.
So, it seems obvious that at this point, SOE has gotten to the same point Microsoft got to what, last year? and is demanding release by a certain date or they turn the money tap off. Now, this last one I have no proof of, but certainly seems likely and does fit the observable facts of what's occuring. But 1 - 6 I know to be absolute incontrovertable facts, from a batphone source in a position to know all of what was really going on behind the scenes, and 7 was obvious from all the reports from the people participating in beta.
In any case, given how much SOE had to spend to get Sigil in the first place (unfortunately, exact $$$ amount I don't know), I'm a little bit surprised that they've given them such a short leash. Seems rather short-sighted to spend that much money, then shoot yourself in the foot with a forced early release. I honestly expected them to shoot for a summer release, far far away from the release of TBC, in a normally quieter time of year, but matched up to when most kids are out of school, and thus tons of time to get hooked on a new MMO. Then again, this *IS* SOE we're discussing here, and given their track record at forcing games out the door early, I shouldn't be THAT surprised, I guess.
-Arlos
Last edited by Arlos on Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Based on the interviews and the people I've talked to at SOE I think you're just a bit off.
SOE didn't pay big bucks for Vanguard. Vanguard did most of their buyout from investor capital and internal personal cash. SOE is merely publishing and allowing Vanguard to make a business arrangement to be included in All Access with profits based on usage. A win/win for Sony. No cash exchanged hands between SOE and MS. That's been repeated. Sigil owns and controls Vanguard, still.
Vanguard contacted SOE after their deal with MS was over. MS and Vanguard had some severe development and planning issues that they could not overcome, due to much of what you represented, but also based on the fact MS wanted to control Vanguard after their AC debacle.
SOE did not, does not, and is not paying for much of Vanguard development. The reason Vanguard is releasing is due to the fact they have no more cash. If SOE were controlling Vanguard, Brad would lobby for more time. He does not have that option.
What occurs next will be based on what happens this year. Either Sigil will fold and SOE will take over Vanguard, or Sigil will make enough cash to push its product and try and grow Vanguard.
MS has lost a few million on Vanguard, but for a company that cheerily threw away billions trying to get Xbox console market share and gets tens of billions in Windows revenue, its not a big deal.
SOE has not lost a dime on Vanguard and will make money regardless of how it turns out due to their deal with Sigil.
I predict this time next year Sigil will be history and either Brad will again be part of SOE or moving to NCSoft to create Vaporware a la Richard Garriot.
SOE didn't pay big bucks for Vanguard. Vanguard did most of their buyout from investor capital and internal personal cash. SOE is merely publishing and allowing Vanguard to make a business arrangement to be included in All Access with profits based on usage. A win/win for Sony. No cash exchanged hands between SOE and MS. That's been repeated. Sigil owns and controls Vanguard, still.
Vanguard contacted SOE after their deal with MS was over. MS and Vanguard had some severe development and planning issues that they could not overcome, due to much of what you represented, but also based on the fact MS wanted to control Vanguard after their AC debacle.
SOE did not, does not, and is not paying for much of Vanguard development. The reason Vanguard is releasing is due to the fact they have no more cash. If SOE were controlling Vanguard, Brad would lobby for more time. He does not have that option.
What occurs next will be based on what happens this year. Either Sigil will fold and SOE will take over Vanguard, or Sigil will make enough cash to push its product and try and grow Vanguard.
MS has lost a few million on Vanguard, but for a company that cheerily threw away billions trying to get Xbox console market share and gets tens of billions in Windows revenue, its not a big deal.
SOE has not lost a dime on Vanguard and will make money regardless of how it turns out due to their deal with Sigil.
I predict this time next year Sigil will be history and either Brad will again be part of SOE or moving to NCSoft to create Vaporware a la Richard Garriot.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
– C. S. Lewis
– C. S. Lewis
Well, from my contact at Microsoft, the price MS charged to release Vanguard's rights was enough money to recoup ALL of their development costs PLUS enough to show a reasonable profit. Now, it is possible I heard wrong and that cash didn't come from SOE, but from personal funds from Sigil employees, including Brad, andn investor capital like you mentioned. It's different than what I heard, but it is certainly a possibility. But I trust my source implicitly when it comes to the MS side of affairs.
-Arlos
-Arlos
More than likely your source wasn't involved in the legal details unless they were a lawyer, Arlos, so I'd take their knowledge of what occured with a grain of salt.
If you think MS made cash from dissolving their relationship with Sigil, you're crazy. I know for a fact they didn't receive a dime from SOE. They can't have received too much from Sigil, because they were the ones paying Sigils bills.
What Microsoft Game Studios wisely did was recoup what they could and still hold a portion of ownership in Sigil and allow them to go their separate ways. I'd guess your source heard the internal MGS spin that was sent to corporate to minimize the egg on their faces, but rest assured they will not make cash on Sigil, unless Vanguard becomes a hit. What they will do is take a chunk from the sales of Vanguard making it tough for Sigil to stay afloat.
If you think MS made cash from dissolving their relationship with Sigil, you're crazy. I know for a fact they didn't receive a dime from SOE. They can't have received too much from Sigil, because they were the ones paying Sigils bills.
What Microsoft Game Studios wisely did was recoup what they could and still hold a portion of ownership in Sigil and allow them to go their separate ways. I'd guess your source heard the internal MGS spin that was sent to corporate to minimize the egg on their faces, but rest assured they will not make cash on Sigil, unless Vanguard becomes a hit. What they will do is take a chunk from the sales of Vanguard making it tough for Sigil to stay afloat.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
– C. S. Lewis
– C. S. Lewis
Not going to give his exact position, but he's management level in their gaming division, and at one time almost was one of the MS folks directly working with Sigil on the game. Or, well, he WOULD have been one of them if Sigil stayed with MS.
-Arlos
-Arlos
Last edited by Arlos on Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lyion wrote:More than likely your source wasn't involved in the legal details unless they were a lawyer, Arlos, so I'd take their knowledge of what occured with a grain of salt.
If you think MS made cash from dissolving their relationship with Sigil, you're crazy. I know for a fact they didn't receive a dime from SOE. They can't have received too much from Sigil, because they were the ones paying Sigils bills.
What Microsoft Game Studios wisely did was recoup what they could and still hold a portion of ownership in Sigil and allow them to go their separate ways. I'd guess your source heard the internal MGS spin that was sent to corporate to minimize the egg on their faces, but rest assured they will not make cash on Sigil, unless Vanguard becomes a hit. What they will do is take a chunk from the sales of Vanguard making it tough for Sigil to stay afloat.
*shrug* Stockholders have information rights.
