Can we escape The Treadmill model

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:07 pm

I played MUDs often in the 80s, but I can't go back to them. I also love my eye candy, and its hard to return to them from EQ and SWG to text MUDs

EQ is largely based off of Diku muds, and was amazing for its time.

That said, I hope the third generation of MMOs is more of an original creation with more dynamic content and little or no treadmilling.

The more I consider it, the more I want an advanced version of what Bioware tried with NWN.

randallman · Post by **randallman** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:21 pm

Lyion wrote:I played MUDs often in the 80s, but I can't go back to them. I also love my eye candy, and its hard to return to them from EQ and SWG to text MUDs

EQ is largely based off of Diku muds, and was amazing for its time.

That said, I hope the third generation of MMOs is more of an original creation with more dynamic content and little or no treadmilling.

The more I consider it, the more I want an advanced version of what Bioware tried with NWN.

NWN is actually great... if you dont try to play online

The single player games arent that (edit)bad(/edit), and alot of the single player fan created modules arent bad either. It's just that the online experience is horrible. Either there's no DM at all, or there's a DM that's trying too hard to be like a PnP dm. I dunno, some people have had great PnP DND type experiences with NWN, but...

Plus, unless its a persistant world that you are playing on, you dont get the whole MMO aspect of it. Lets be reasonable here. 1, 2, 3, even 4 guys cant create a persistent world with enough content for 200+ players that play between 2 and 12 hours a day to keep up.

Its a lost cause from the get-go.

NWN filled its niche, but I really cant see it happenning in a real MMO situation

P.S. HEYA TSTORM. Long time foo!

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:00 pm

randallman wrote:
Lyion wrote:I played MUDs often in the 80s, but I can't go back to them. I also love my eye candy, and its hard to return to them from EQ and SWG to text MUDs

EQ is largely based off of Diku muds, and was amazing for its time.

That said, I hope the third generation of MMOs is more of an original creation with more dynamic content and little or no treadmilling.

The more I consider it, the more I want an advanced version of what Bioware tried with NWN.

NWN is actually great... if you dont try to play online The single player games arent that (edit)bad(/edit), and alot of the single player fan created modules arent bad either. It's just that the online experience is horrible. Either there's no DM at all, or there's a DM that's trying too hard to be like a PnP dm. I dunno, some people have had great PnP DND type experiences with NWN, but...

I like MMOs, but I want the feel of being part of a 'dynamic immersive' world.

I guess I want the best of both. Change and reality, with large amounts of people in a complex social environment.

I hate ISO, and it killed NWN for me. They need to make NWN simpler, and redo it with the Unreal engine, or the KOTOR engine.

Drem · Post by **Drem** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:18 pm

I just have a feeling you'll never see a game like you're asking for. They might try to float it, but if people are paying money to play it it's going to be like EQ every step of the way. Every roleplaying game I've ever played involves racking xp or practicing skills over and over. It's a part of their dynamic. It's what seperates them from a game like ut2004 where you just turn it on and everyone's got the same set up.

The only situation I've ever seen what you're describing is in MUDs and kind of that game Freelancer.

Minrott · Post by **Minrott** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:13 pm

How long has the mmog been a mainstream standby in the gaming industry? 5 years? 6 years? Before I picked up Everquest in '99 I thought rpg's were strat games or mud's. I'd never even heard of massively multiplayer. It'll come Lyion, it just won't be tomorrow.

Thon · Post by **Thon** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:55 pm

i was playing UO for years before EQ(i started in '99 on eq), and i think there was a game or two before UO on the mmo-scale

as for planetside, they have population locks on continents, but there are a LOT of people during primetime battles. moreso than you see in any zone in EQ apart from bazaar. i forget if they're still letting you DL it for a free trial, but i am pretty sure you can DL it for $10. if you can get the free trial i'd suggest looking into it if you've never played

but EVE had no excuse, they've got one damn server, and there's never been more than 7k or so ppl on it at once. not to mention the galaxy is HUGE.

Minrott · Post by **Minrott** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:30 pm

Oh, I know UO was around before EQ, and there were probably others. But until the whole mmog thing really got going, which I consider to be about 2000, there really wasn't enough competition in the genre to facilitate steady improvment of technology like game engines or networking.

Uchiha · Post by **Uchiha** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:33 am

eq sucks now..and planetside was pretty cool, and swg is gonna get better. jedi trials start the 29th..i think they're gonna be pretty hard..and they're nerfering buffs so thats good...gonna get more challenging instead of get novice tka one day and master like 2 days later..

Thon · Post by **Thon** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:20 am

buffs are a *tad* overpowered, but you could get novice tka w/o buffs in a day. it's so funny watching people in that game, the ones that have never played EQ just have no clue what grinding really is.