Kobe Bryant is the MVP of the NBA

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:17 am

IMO...

Discuss...

+1 NBA posts. Suck it.

Lionking · Post by **Lionking** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:55 am

According to Kobe, it's Nash or Nowitski. :vonk:

Snero · Post by **Snero** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:31 am

team success has always (I think) played a huge part in the mvp voting though, so that means kobe won't win.

They really need to define exactly what they mean by mvp though, best player, most important player to his team, or best player on one of the top two or three teams.

I would probably still go with dirk but kobe has been damn impressive lately

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:36 am

Kobe is the most talented player in the NBA, i hate the guy, but its true.

He is NOT the MVP though.

Dirk has been amazing this year, and i think should win the award. If not him, deffinatly Steve Nash.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:38 am

To me it means best player in the league. That is Kobe. His team isn't terrible either, he's atleast in the playoffs as of right now. If they go on a little bit of a run at the end of the year I could see him getting it. I don't think people in the league really want to make a white Canadian a three time MVP.

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:15 am

To me Most valuable player means just that, who is the most valuable person to their team. This year i think its Dirk, he does everything for the Mavs, Scores, rebounds, passes, hits three's post up players, drive to the hoop, and makes EVERYONE around him better.

To me, while Kobe again is the most talented player on the court every night, he still doesnt get everyone involved in the game, he doesnt make his teamates better. I take nothing away from Kobe, his cast of players are not great, and its amazing that they are above .500.

Nash of course has to be in the discussion, as far as making his teamates better he is the king of this. He has made alot of other players money, just because they played with him. I just dont see him winning it this year, they have done decent without him in the lineup, and he has a very strong supporting cast.

To me if any of those 3 got the nod for MVP, i wouldnt complain that much. Dirk just stands out to me though.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:25 am

To me Kobe is like the Wilt Chamberlain of our generation. He's the most talented player in the league. He puts up the best numbers. His team over achieves every year. And he gets nothing but bad press.

I think he does a pretty good job of making his teammates better. He's really helped Odoms assist numbers. He does pass the ball alot too, he averages 2 more assists a game then Dirk does.

If the MVP is going to go to a top 3 team, I give it too Dirk over Nash and Duncan this year. If the award goes to the best player, and the one who's had the most impact on his team, I give it to Kobe.

Whats really going to piss me off is the Shaq for MVP talk were going to hear down the stretch.

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:42 am

Well he helps Odom's assist numbers because everytime Odom touches the ball, and passes to Kobe, Kobe tries to score. I dont classify this as making him better :wink:

As far as averaging more assists than Dirk, well yes. Dirk is a PF, Kobe is a gaurd, he is suppose to pass the ball! Kobe's numbers in the assist department have been impressive for a pure scorer, i will give you that. One big number sticks out at me though......56-11.

Ive never been an advocate of handing out the hardware to the guy on the best team, based only on record. However it does come into consideration. The Mavs have been on cruise control this year, they beaten the tough teams, they have beaten the bad teams. The Lakers have struggled, esspecially of late.

But again you can make a case for Kobe, Dirk, or Nash. But if you are making a case for Kobe, you would then have to consider LBJ and Arenas in the discussion. Kobe's numbers are almost identical to those 2, they have about the same talent around them, and their teams have about the same record.

If i said pick between Arenas and Dirk for MVP, i would think you would say Dirk. If i said pick between LBJ and Dirk....you would say Dirk, their numbers again are almost identical to Kobe's, so how can you say Kobe for MVP?

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:50 am

Because Kobe is by far the better player and the more complete player. He's one of the best defensive guards and he's done more with less.

Of course I'd take Dirk ahead of Arenas and LBJ. But the same argument could be made for Yao. His numbres are close to those of Dirks, so why couldn't he get the MVP ahead of him? Because a persons value is more then the sum of his stats, and to me Kobe is much more than that even though his stats are crazy.

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:26 am

I dont think you can say that Kobe is a more complete player than Dirk. Dirk does everything that Kobe does, and more! Make a checklist...here we go!

Scores Kobe : Yes, Dirk : yes

Rebounds Kobe:Decent for a guard, Dirk: Great Rebounder

Field Goal % Kobe: Fantastic for a guard, Dirk: Fantastic for anyone

FT % Kobe:Great FT shooter Dirk : Better FT shooter

Assists Kobe: Decent assist guy Dirk: Better passer

Blocks Kobe:Great for a guard, Dirk: Good for a PF

Steals Kobe:Decent, Dirk: Decent

Kobe by far the better player? No. Better pure scorer, ok i can see that. But if i had to pick between Kobe, and Dirk to start a team from scratch, im probably picking Dirk.

Lets play a game, im going to give you 5 players, and their stats you tell me who they are!

FG % FT% 3pt PTS REB AST STL BLCK

Player 1 .421 .850 186 1908 312 395 123 13

Player 2 .465 .866 116 1920 361 348 91 25

Player 3 .438 .903 165 1454 247 228 82 11

Player 4 .471 .748 119 1426 239 249 60 11

Player 5 .451 .789 121 1683 396 312 69 23

Wich one is Kobe?

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:32 am

Zanchief wrote:To me it means best player in the league. That is Kobe. His team isn't terrible either, he's atleast in the playoffs as of right now. If they go on a little bit of a run at the end of the year I could see him getting it. I don't think people in the league really want to make a white Canadian a three time MVP.

Nash wasn't "The Best" last year, Kobe was...
Nash wasn't "The Best" 2 years ago, Iverson was...

You would have argued otherwise... tooth and nail.

I agree with Snero. "They" need to come up with a standard and stick to it.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:37 am

Hrmm you won't believe me but here goes for fun (even though it makes no difference because I think Kobe is better than his stats).

Player 1 is Arenas because he jacks up three likes its nobodies business and steals the ball a ton

Player 2 is Kobe because he gets a lot of blocks for a guard (because he's a great defender).

Player 3 is Ray Allen because of the crazy FT%

Player 4 I'm going to guess is Allen Iverson just because of the crummy FG%/FT%.

Player 5 is LBJ because of the high rebounds.

Having said that I don't think it matters. I could list you a bunch of PF and you wouldn't really be able to tell Boozer, Yao, Duncan and Dirk apart either. Sure he shoots threes but the results are similar.

Plus Kobe defends his position much better than Dirk does.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:39 am

vonkaar wrote:
Zanchief wrote:To me it means best player in the league. That is Kobe. His team isn't terrible either, he's atleast in the playoffs as of right now. If they go on a little bit of a run at the end of the year I could see him getting it. I don't think people in the league really want to make a white Canadian a three time MVP.

Nash wasn't "The Best" last year, Kobe was...
Nash wasn't "The Best" 2 years ago, Iverson was...

You would have argued otherwise... tooth and nail.

I agree with Snero. "They" need to come up with a standard and stick to it.

Not true. Two years ago I thought Nash was the best player. I'm not sure I would have argued with my teeth about it though. Last year I though Kobe deserved the MVP but the disparidy wasn't that big. Same as this year I woudn't be outraged if Dirk won, I just think Kobe is the better choice.

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:41 am

Forgot to add too, you said that why isnt Yao mentioned as MVP. Well Yao missed half the year. If Yao put up his numbers for a complete season, yeah i deffinatly would thrown him into the MVP mix...absolutley.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:42 am

Uh, I most certainly could tell you the difference between dirk and any other 4 based on his stats...

FT% alone would give that away.

That'd give Timmie away too :teehee:

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:50 am

vonkaar wrote:Uh, I most certainly could tell you the difference between dirk and any other 4 based on his stats...

FT% alone would give that away.

That'd give Timmie away too

So would Dirks FG%

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:58 am

Zanchief wrote:Not true. Two years ago I thought Nash was the best player. I'm not sure I would have argued with my teeth about it though. Last year I though Kobe deserved the MVP but the disparidy wasn't that big. Same as this year I woudn't be outraged if Dirk won, I just think Kobe is the better choice.

Your standards change then.

Nash was 'the best' for completely different reasons then what you could say Kobe is 'the best' right now. Stevie's teams won 60 games, all on his back... >> AND << he put up ridiculous numbers >> AND << he made his team better... All you have for Kobe is his stat line, which as Phlegm pointed out... isn't THAT amazing. He'll have an amazing game here and there.. but, does his team win? Do his teammates really "get beter?" Different standards man. You could make that case for Nash the past 2 years... KG the year before, Duncan before that... You can say that for Dirk AND Nash this year. Kobe has CRAZY GOOD GAMES and a SHITLOAD of talent... but... his team sucks balls.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:04 am

I wouldn't say his team sucks balls.

I don't have to have different standards. I think Kobe DOES make his teammates better. I think without him Odom would be the same as he was in LA and Miami, not very good. You really think Jordan Farmar and Luke Walton are really that good? How about Smush NBADL Parker?

When Nash one two years ago he did win because of what he brought to the team AND his stats AND his play. But I agree he wasn't the "best" player in the league that year. It would have been AI, Wade or Kobe, but the voting came down between Shaq and Nash, and in my mind, in that year, Nash was the better player, if you can compare people who play so different.

You can't just keep ignoring Kobe. He's been the best player in the league for three years in a row. It's time he won.

Phlegm · Post by **Phlegm** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:06 am

Kobe is a fucking hog. He should pass the ball once in a while.

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:08 am

You can keep ignoring him, because his team does not get better. His team does not improve. They are a first round exit this year, just like the last time.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:17 am

They came REALLY close to beating the Suns last year.

Xaiveir · Post by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:20 am

In my opinion, if you take Kobe off the lakers, and replace him with Dirk the team probably gets better with the added rebounds, and better passing. Worst case scenario they stay about the same record as they are now.

If you take Dirk off the Mavs, and replace him with Kobe, they would not have the 56-11 record they have now. They would be a 3 seed at best, and more than likely be in the 4-5 range.

Kobe is an amazing player, but MVP, no. Tell me why Arenas and LBJ should not be considered, and Kobe should. Similiar stats, similiar talent (snicker) on their team, and similiar records. If you give me something that makes kobe stand out from those 2, i would reconsider my vote (like i have one!)

I will agree though, that if we have to hear the Shaq for MVP down the stretch, im going to go insane. :wink:

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:22 am

I'm not sure Dirk on LA makes them better, though I do agree Kobe on Dallas makes them worse, just because of the way the team is designed.

Take Dallas and give them Timmy, Boozer, hell even Bosh I don't think they get worse though.

Kobe in Washington, Kobe in Denver, Kobe in Cleveland? Those teams would be A LOT better IMO.

Was I right about the stats dude?

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:26 am

Uh... there isn't THAT much of a difference between the MVP-calibre4s in FG%. Boozer is the only one who is ridiculously higher than everyone else.

Boozer (.561)
Timmie (.536)
Yao (.514)
Bosh (.503)
Dirk (.499)
KG (.482)

You're telling me you'd be able to pick Dirk out of that bunch, on FG alone? Suuuure. Full line? Hell yeah, his numbers would stand out like a sore thumb. Sick 3s, way more PPG, FT% through the roof. Combine those personal stats with TEAM stats (36-4 in 07, etc) and what do you get? MVP. Dirk has a 32/9/8/2/4 game in the MIDDLE of a 17 game winning streak. Kobe has a 65 point game to END a 7game losing streak. That's the difference.

Phlegm · Post by **Phlegm** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:28 am

If the MVP goes to the player that meant the most for their team then Arenas, Lebron James, or Baron Davis should win it.