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by **Snero** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:59 pm

it may be nitpicking but they are right

and honestly, who uses "R tards"???

by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:00 pm

r tards?

by **Lyion** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:10 pm

Yes. Go rewatch the South Park WOW season opener. R Tard should be a staple of every gamers vocabulary.

Also, go watch all the games from the 80s which you were probably too young to see live, and watch the Celtics sweep Jordans bulls repeatedly during MJs first years in the league, despite MJ putting up huge numbers. MJ's 'prime' and championships were after MJ/Bird both were essentially or literally retired. I never disagreed with that, but I also don't think MJ raised the level of his team as they did, ever. The level of competition was just that much weaker after they left.

Anyways, it's a stupid argument. Basketball is a team game, and the best 5 win it. Stats are nice, but they don't equate to championships, or to an actual definition of greatness.

by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:12 pm

But we are talking about the MVP, which is an individual honor...

by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:17 pm

lyion wrote:Yes. Go rewatch the South Park WOW season opener. R Tard should be a staple of every gamers vocabulary.

Also, go watch all the games from the 80s which you were probably too young to see live, and watch the Celtics sweep Jordans bulls repeatedly during MJs first years in the league, despite MJ putting up huge numbers. MJ's 'prime' and championships were after MJ/Bird both were essentially or literally retired. I never disagreed with that, but I also don't think MJ raised the level of his team as they did, ever. The level of competition was just that much weaker after they left.

Anyways, it's a stupid argument. Basketball is a team game, and the best 5 win it. Stats are nice, but they don't equate to championships, or to an actual definition of greatness.

Player for Player the Celtics and Lakers teams were by FAR a better team than any of the bulls teams. I mean take the starting 5 of either of those teams, and put them up against the bulls and they win. MJ or no MJ, 1 player can only carry a team so far.

I dont think Bird or magic really had to raise the level of their teamates. Their starting 5 on both teams were amazing.

by **Lyion** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:17 pm

MVP= Value. Value to me is value to ones team. Talent is another thing, and different to me than value.

MJ was hugely more talented than Bird. Bird was more valuable to his team when they both were playing together.

Ditto with Dirk and Kobe, IMO.

Vonk has a list of talented players. However, talent nor stats equate to value and victory, which was my underlying point.

The Celtics hardly had superstar players. Neither did the Lakers. They SEEMED that much better due to the coaching and the Magic/Bird influence there. It's similar to the Mavs and Suns today.

by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:19 pm

Shit, people CAN dig upwards.

by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:20 pm

lyion wrote:MVP= Value. Value to me is value to ones team. Talent is another thing, and different to me than value.

MJ was hugely more talented than Bird. Bird was more valuable to his team.

Ditto with Dirk and Kobe, IMO.

Vonk has a list of talented players. However, talent nor stats equate to value and victory, which was my underlying point.

The Celtics hardly had superstar players. Neither did the Lakers. They SEEMED that much better due to the coaching and the Magic/Bird influence there. It's similar to the Mavs and Suns today.

I can agree with this for the most part. As far as what he meant to the team, i dont think you can say that MJ didnt mean as much as Bird did to his championship teams though. I think he would be even as far as "value" to his teams go. But that is just me.

by **Lyion** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:21 pm

I know, right?

Who's more talented: Iverson or Nash? Who is more valuable to their team?

In regards to Jordan, it's tough to say as I wouldn't put the Jazz or Trailblazers of the 90s into the same level of competition as I would the Celts, Lakers, or even 76ers of the 80s. All one can say is Jordan made the game of basketball more popular, and I still remember seeing him live several times.

by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:21 pm

Just look at the 1994-95 Bulls to see what kind of value MJ had on his teams.

by **Arlos** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:06 pm

Yeah, but can you argue against how valuable Magic was to the Lakers? I mean, hell, didn't he drop 40-something points in a finals game playing CENTER?

Entirely too bad the man couldn't keep his dick in his pants, and had to retire when he was still at the top of his game, cause of AIDS.

-Arlos

by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:20 pm

He was already declining when he retired, but your point is still valid.

by **Xaiveir** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:36 pm

I would still take a Declining magic johnson over 90% of the people in the NBA now! :wink:

by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:39 pm

holy shit, Toronto just lit Denver up in the first quarter... Gogo T.J. Ford, 8 assists already.

by **vonkaar** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:42 pm

k... watching TWO blowout first quarters actually... Toronto taking a 21 point lead going into the 2nd against Denver... or Indiana lighting up Miami 33 to 9 at the 2nd...

wtf is going on here :eyecrazy:

by **Zanchief** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:07 pm

My boys are awesome.

I can't remember the last time we lit someone up like that.

by **Rotj** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:36 am

thanks for kobe zan!

by **Zanchief** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:31 am

Fucker.

Brand has been pretty much useless to me.

by **Lyion** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:55 am

March Madness is keeping me from following anything but my Cavs and the Pistons. I don't care about the scrub Eastern teams. :wink:

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