States dealing with abortion

[Spazz]

I think it has everything to do with it actually. These murdered babies are finna need homes if they arent murdered. Its all fine and good if your a white baby or from a third world shithole and a celeb hooks you up. What about lil black crack babies?Meth babies? You know unwanted kids that never get taken home from the pound and grow up in the system? You never have a whole lot to say other than a one liner and some insults. Since people are never going to act responsible, how bout you share with me an idea on how to deal with unwanted children ? I mean it harrison lets see your quality.

[Harrison]

It is a good thing we don't have to depend on anything you think of.

[Lueyen]

Actually when looking at adoption rates in relation to abortion you are off the mark. The major source of adoptive parents is from those who can not have children. The general inclination is to adopt a baby. Nearly half of all total adoptions are children 0-5. If you look at the break down, age is inversely proportional to the percentage of adoptions in age brackets.

There are some other reasons for this beyond people wanting to adopt and raise a child as their own from early years forward but that is the primary reason. Those numbers are slightly skewed in that older children entering into foster care are less likely to be available for adoption as the parents have not completely relinquished rights (in the case of children being taken against parental will). If you think about it though, it only makes sense that a couple who can not have children and look at adoption as a solution would want to raise a child from infancy on up (those of you who have kids think about all the good things you'd miss instead of dirty diapers).

I had an aunt and uncle that went through multiple miss-carriages trying to have a child and at one point looked at adoption. He was a county sheriff and she was a secretary while they didn't make loads of cash they weren't hurting either... they didn't qualify (granted this was 40 years ago).

Bottom line when it comes to adoption the problem is not a lack of parents wanting to adopt, the problem is a lack of babies to adopt. As far as race goes, the majority of children that enter into the foster system are of minority background.. and you know what? Parents seeking to adopt children often times will adopt a minority child simply because they are lucky to be able to. Typical wait time for adoptive parents ranges 1 to 2 years.

Sorry there is no abundance of babies waiting on adoption.

[Haylo]

Sorry Luey going to have to disagree with you there. There are no abundance of white babies waiting on adoption but there are many minority babies in the system. I know this from first hand work with the social services here in DC and in Maryland. When outside races do adopt minority children, they seek the healthy children and as a result there are many children who are born with issues that grow up in the system. It seems that most minorities that place their children up for adoption are not giving up healthy babies.

So you have kids in the system who started out with issues and as a result were not adopted as infants, by the time they shake those issues they are oft times too old to be in that desirable age range, or they have other issues from having been in foster care for that long.

For instance here at my school we have a family of kids, their mother placed them all in care in successive years. So she had a kid then a few months later put the kid in the system. Anyway, each of them had some health concerns at the time and I imagine they were not the chubby happy babies that prospective parents are looking for. Now they are problem kids who have never known a real home. These kids will likely never find a stable home and in fact will probably end up costing us all money (two of them already have records and they are still relatively young). I'm not saying that it would be better for these kids if they had been aborted, in fact I myself would never have one. However we should realize that all kids are not going to be adopted and placing a kid up for adoption is not some shiny happy guarantee of a good future. Often these kids are abused and mistreated and end up in terrible situations.

Granted this is all based on what I have seen personally and is of course going to be skewed. But in the end no one should be able to make a decision about the fate of the child in utero except the parents of the child (yes I do advocate paternal rights in regard to abortion) because after that child is born, there are no screaming crowds of pro-life or pro-choice advocates around to worry about what happens next.

[Eziekial]

I'm tired of people debating this issue at the Federal level. I think roe v wade should be overturned and let each state set up it's own laws and see what happens. If all the Jesus freaks move to Montana and ban abortion then that's fine by me. If they all come to Florida and ban it, I can decide to move or stay and respect the law. The problem with our system is too many people are more interested in telling everyone else what to do than to make sure they are doing what they think is right. Fuck that. It's not what made this country great and if we can't reverse this trend in bucking everyfuckingissue to Washington and the Supreme Court then we are fininshed.

Let's have some fucking competition with regards to these issues between the states and see what shakes out. The problem is too many intolerant people hold high positions of power and are loathe to see that power be decentralized and returned to the "people".

[10sun]

I'd also like to see women's sufferage and slavery returned to the states.

[Harrison]

Sorry Luey going to have to disagree with you there. There are no abundance of white babies waiting on adoption but there are many minority babies in the system. I know this from first hand work with the social services here in DC and in Maryland. When outside races do adopt minority children, they seek the healthy children and as a result there are many children who are born with issues that grow up in the system. It seems that most minorities that place their children up for adoption are not giving up healthy babies.

So you have kids in the system who started out with issues and as a result were not adopted as infants, by the time they shake those issues they are oft times too old to be in that desirable age range, or they have other issues from having been in foster care for that long.

For instance here at my school we have a family of kids, their mother placed them all in care in successive years. So she had a kid then a few months later put the kid in the system. Anyway, each of them had some health concerns at the time and I imagine they were not the chubby happy babies that prospective parents are looking for. Now they are problem kids who have never known a real home. These kids will likely never find a stable home and in fact will probably end up costing us all money (two of them already have records and they are still relatively young). I'm not saying that it would be better for these kids if they had been aborted, in fact I myself would never have one. However we should realize that all kids are not going to be adopted and placing a kid up for adoption is not some shiny happy guarantee of a good future. Often these kids are abused and mistreated and end up in terrible situations.

Granted this is all based on what I have seen personally and is of course going to be skewed. But in the end no one should be able to make a decision about the fate of the child in utero except the parents of the child (yes I do advocate paternal rights in regard to abortion) because after that child is born, there are no screaming crowds of pro-life or pro-choice advocates around to worry about what happens next.

So the answer is....kill them?

[Snero]

so the answer might be to get rid of the unwanted clump of cells before it becomes a "them"

[Jay]

I'd also like to see women's sufferage and slavery returned to the states.

I think you mean something else because women's suffrage totally exists today. If anything we should remove it =P.

[Haylo]

I'm not saying that it would be better for these kids if they had been aborted, in fact I myself would never have one. However we should realize that all kids are not going to be adopted and placing a kid up for adoption is not some shiny happy guarantee of a good future. Often these kids are abused and mistreated and end up in terrible situations.

But in the end no one should be able to make a decision about the fate of the child in utero except the parents of the child (yes I do advocate paternal rights in regard to abortion) because after that child is born, there are no screaming crowds of pro-life or pro-choice advocates around to worry about what happens next.

[Tacks]

Agreed, I'm totally against women's suffrage.

[Lyion]

Sorry Luey going to have to disagree with you there. There are no abundance of white babies waiting on adoption but there are many minority babies in the system. I know this from first hand work with the social services here in DC and in Maryland. When outside races do adopt minority children, they seek the healthy children and as a result there are many children who are born with issues that grow up in the system. It seems that most minorities that place their children up for adoption are not giving up healthy babies.

For instance here at my school we have a family of kids, their mother placed them all in care in successive years. So she had a kid then a few months later put the kid in the system. Anyway, each of them had some health concerns at the time and I imagine they were not the chubby happy babies that prospective parents are looking for.

This is much broader than just adoption. How many handicapped children did the one mother dump, and why did she continue to get pregnant apparently often?

A drug addicted troubled woman who breeds over and over and pushes those defective babies on to the system should be stopped by the state from getting pregnant. To some that is a violation of civil liberties, and she should be allowed to continue to have children, even if she lacks the means to take care of them, and even the simple control not to use drugs while pregnant.

What is the answer to this problem in your opinion? Babies, even minority ones WILL get adopted, unless the 'cultural' political mentality that fights putting black kids with white families continues to be allowed. Is this wrong in your opinion?

Unfortunately, this person wouldn't be getting an abortion, anyways, and so this issue doesn't even relate to her, which is sad for so many other reasons.

[Snero]

the issue doesn't relate to the "mother" but it is an example of how adoption really isn't much of a cureall when it comes to unwanted children

[10sun]

There is no reason that these women should have to suffer any longer!

[Haylo]

Lyion, my point was just that not ALL babies will get adopted. I cited the example as a way to show a case in which babies were not adopted. These kids were legally free to adopt all before their first birthday but they are still in the system to this day.

As far as who adopts a black baby, I don't care if you're purple and you want to adopt a kid, if you're going to give them a good home go for it. I'm far from a rabid Jesse Jackson follower who believes black babies in black families. I definitely am against race based adoptions, I believe anyone should be able to adopt whatever child is available. If that's not the question you were asking then I apologize.

As far as my opinion on their mother, I definitely think the state should take a stand in cases like that. I seem to recall some case not too long ago where a judge ordered a woman to get her tubes tied or something like that? Maybe i'm mixing it up, I wonder what happened with that. If you have one child born addicted, you should get a chance to get it together and reclaim the child, if you have more than one child born that way, then the state should take steps to solve the problem. This is another discussion though.

[Lyion]

I agree with your points and it seems like we're on the same page, Haylo.

I think most adoptive parents want the perfect baby. I think many others who would adopt special needs children shy away due to how cost prohibitive they can be.

I'm not asking questions so much as angered about how politicized babies become, when really everyone should simply be looking into the best options for them, and trying to have solutions for all these issues.

[Tossica]

I am pro-life for myself but would never feel I had the right to tell anyone else what they can and can't do with their bodies.

[Haylo]

Ok then Yes I agree it does become all about the politics. I wish there would be a solution to the issue that everyone will magically agree on, but the truth is that it will never happen. I tend to agree with the statement that it should just become a state issue. Obviously some other things can not be handled in this manner, but if it will end clinic bombings and court cases that last years and solve nothing, maybe it's the way to go. The thing is, even if it's a states issue, there are going to be people that just have got to impose their will and they will just migrate their protests to the states that allow it. It's just something that is never going to be resolved.

[ClakarEQ]

I am pro-life for myself but would never feel I had the right to tell anyone else what they can and can't do with their bodies.

I agree 100%

I'm curious what the pro-lifers think about when life becomes life (Narrock, harrison)?

Should man be able to create life outside of a human? (the polar opposite of abortion)

[Menlaan]

I am pro-choice for myself (well, technically for my partner though fortunately I've never been put in the situation), and I don't feel I have the right to tell anyone else what they can or can't do with their bodies. If I could, I would wish for more abortions of unwanted babies and not fewer. I'm also pro-euthanasia.

[Lyion]

The thing is it is not their body. It is a living, thinking, dreaming, individual that can yes, feel pain! Some will say that being is dependent on the mother, well so is a newborn.

An unborn baby has survived outside of the womb at 22 weeks. We have many abortions being performed at that time. When is it NOT ok for this?

Partial Birth abortion is blocked again and again in Congress. This is a travesty and the same people who say it is a womans right, could care less when a child is killed, so long as a woman has this right and can kill babies at will for any reason.

To many it is just something they will never see or feel, so who cares? That is no different from the millions murdered on other continents, but that does not change the fact it is WRONG, should be condemnded and fought against.

I try to allow for pragmatic approaches such as the morning after pill or early methods to prevent pregnancies from moving ahead, but the simple fact is most abortions we have are after 12 weeks when the baby is a cognizant being, healthy, and are done for simple convenience.

To some murder for convenience is fine. I'm sorry, to me it doesn't change the nature of what it is and it is wrong, wrong wrong.

[Tuggan]

eh, to me a fetus is nothing but a parasite til it's out of the womb and being annoying to everyone else present and not just the host it was infecting. i don't give a fuck if they allow abortions right up until that magical moment where she shits it out.

it's none of my business, it's none of your business. it's not the governments business. it's the woman and man directly involved and that's fuckin it. really not that complicated if you just mind you and your own.

[Lueyen]

Interesting information Haylo. What I based most of what I said on was either my aunt and uncles experiences many years ago or the most current national study which I believe was done somewhere around 98 so that information is dated also.

That being said and you hinted at this a bit, your experiences are based in one region of the country. I would imagine that the social services in the DC/Baltimore area come under a lot of strain across the board. Not that the area doesn't have it's charm, but my impression of Baltimore when I was there a few years ago was that there were a lot of social issues and situations that begged for improvement, granted I think I visited some of the worst areas where crime rate was a major problem, but much of the area seemed pretty economically strained also.

How much of representation is the area compared to the average around the country I do not know, a lot can change in 10 years, and historically adoption rates and dynamics are subject to a lot of variation. In the end however I see the social issues surrounding children with health problems or just children in general being stuck in a foster care system that has a lot of problems as being an issue that has other solutions beyond abortion. When it comes to social programs, there aren't many where I think we can justifiably say money and resources would be better spent elsewhere. I see it very similar to other "quality of life" arguments. I find it interesting that many people on a personnel level will deal with whatever hardships to do what they think is right (pro-life for me) but when it comes to issues like this on a broad social level they take an opposing view with this type of argument and want to minimize the inconvenience to society (pro-choice for everyone else).

It seems that most minorities that place their children up for adoption are not giving up healthy babies.

I found this to be a very telling statement honestly. In an economically strained area where many parents have limited means, it does not surprise me that the majority of babies given up for adoption are ones with health issues. Children aren't cheap, and sadly it sounds like a large percentage of cases involve not a lack of wanting the child, but a lack of being able to feasibly deal with the added financial strain of one with health issues, it makes me wonder just how many parents who DON'T want to give their children up for adoption feel (or are) forced to do so because they can't deal with the financial impact. This is all a bit off subject, but that thought is a sad one.

[Lueyen]

eh, to me a fetus is nothing but a parasite til it's out of the womb and being annoying to everyone else present and not just the host it was infecting. i don't give a fuck if they allow abortions right up until that magical moment where she shits it out.

it's none of my business, it's none of your business. it's not the governments business. it's the woman and man directly involved and that's fuckin it. really not that complicated if you just mind you and your own.

A shit out parasite hu? I wonder if future generations will view us as just as bigoted as our forefathers who believed that certain classifications of people based on physical conditions they could not control did not have the same rights everyone else had.

The pro-life view will eventually win out due to attrition, as they aren't the ones killing off their offspring... it's just a matter of when our society will reach that critical mass.

[Harrison]

eh, to me a fetus is nothing but a parasite til it's out of the womb and being annoying to everyone else present and not just the host it was infecting. i don't give a fuck if they allow abortions right up until that magical moment where she shits it out.

it's none of my business, it's none of your business. it's not the governments business. it's the woman and man directly involved and that's fuckin it. really not that complicated if you just mind you and your own.

Your stupidity surpasses what I thought to be its end. Grow up...

It's a living creature with emotions, a heartbeat, dreams, CONSCIOUS THOUGHT at some point during the pregnancy. To kill a defenseless baby is murder.

Murder is illegal, and so should abortion past a certain point. We don't allow murder of people who CAN defend themselves, we sure as fuck don't allow murder of the defenseless.