States dealing with abortion

[Maeya]

Yeah, I can say it has had no experiences. It's been trapped in a nice cushy womb for the past 20 weeks. Any adventures one has in the womb are awfully limited. As far as sensations, I understand that it will respond if poked, or exposed to stimuli, but I was careful to say that it has never *seen* anything and never *smelled* anything instead of generalizing by saying no sensations at all.

Anyway, I don't care to get into a big debate about abortions and at what point the fetus crosses the line into "human being", but it pretty well blew my mind to find out that scientists suspect that they dream as early as 17 weeks or so. Just didn't really see how that could be possible.

[Martrae]

at the point at which they are capable of independant life.

So when they are 18?

[Martrae]

Yeah, I can say it has had no experiences. It's been trapped in a nice cushy womb for the past 20 weeks. Any adventures one has in the womb are awfully limited. As far as sensations, I understand that it will respond if poked, or exposed to stimuli, but I was careful to say that it has never *seen* anything and never *smelled* anything instead of generalizing by saying no sensations at all.

Anyway, I don't care to get into a big debate about abortions and at what point the fetus crosses the line into "human being", but it pretty well blew my mind to find out that scientists suspect that they dream as early as 17 weeks or so. Just didn't really see how that could be possible.

My MIL would say they dream of heaven.

[Tacks]

Your MIL is a stupid cunt.

[Tuggan]

haha, that's not very nice taxx.

[Tacks]

ya i know

[Harrison]

Your MIL is a stupid cunt.

I lol'd regardless...it caught me off guard.

[Reynaldo]

Cunt is such a great word. I wonder why it makes females blood boil so much?

[Harrison]

Because just like anyone else who lets a word affect them, they are weak.

[Arlos]

What about late-term abortions that are vital to the health of the mother? Certainly it's more uncommon than voluntary abortions, but there are certainly many medical cases where it comes down to a simple choice: abort the child or the mother dies, period. What then?

That has actually been the sticking point that has prevented the partial birth abortion procedure being banned; because those who write the bans keep refusing to put in a "except when necessary for the health of the mother" clause. Sure it's a disgusting procedure that shouldn't be used under any normal circumstances, but if the mother is GOING to die, and it is the ONLY medically possible way to abort the fetus to save her life, then it's got to be used.

Also, what about kids you find out late have some incredibly serious birth defect? I mean not just club foot or something, but serious brain damage rendering them a vegetable, or some of the odder ones, where the defect is so severe the child, if born, would need constant intsensive care, forever, and even so wouldn't live out a year. What about in those cases? Is there a point to bringing a child into the world you knwo won't surive, or that will literally have no higher brain function, ever?

The slippery slope question on the latter one that crops up, is where do you draw the line of "bad ENOUGH birth defects" to justify aborting them? Is severe Down's Syndrome, where they'd live their entire lives never getting above the IQ of a 2 year old "bad enough"?

Lastly, I am for abortion for anothe reason that someone touched on in this thread: practicality. How many women died, were rendered permanently infertile, or otherwise severely damaged for life when they were forced to seek abortions on the black market? Just like Prohibition didn't stop people from looking for alcohol, banning abortions wouldn't stop people from having them. At least now you know it's being done in a medically safe fashion.

In any case, as I said before, I firmly believe no one, except the potential father, has any right to try and badger a woman making that decision. And even in his case, the final decision is hers, because it is HER body, no one elses. If we don't own our own bodies, what do we own?

-Arlos

[Harrison]

If they go "black market" for abortions, I hope they get a severe infection and curl up dying for a year before they finally bite it.

It may be her body, but who is protecting the body of THE FUCKING BABY?

[Tuggan]

Well, considering "the fucking baby" is inside of her body... I would say the choice is ultimately up to one person. Wouldn't you?

[Harrison]

No, I would not.

[Spazz]

Its a fetus dude not a baby.

[Arlos]

Fine, we disagree there. You didn't address the other 2 questions though. Care to, instead of just making insulting quips? Or is posting a reasoned argument or statement of belief beyond your capacity?

-Arlos

[Harrison]

This thread has been rehashed AT LEAST 3 times in the past year. Go back and read our posts from there.

I am not going to go to great lengths REposting facts, my opinions, etc. for the sake of appeasing 'tards like Tuggan and Spazz.

[Arlos]

Beyond your capacity. Got it.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

I don't need to post 1000 word essays to express an opinion that we all well know in advance.

[Spazz]

You have no opinion. Your posts are lame insults, grammer police and ,yea yeas from whatever nt conservitive you wish to agree with. Maybe its you who should go back to the kids table while the grownups talk.

[Jay]

Harri, I dunno if it's just me but I noticed you've been Mindia'ing a lot lately (ie vehemetly disagreeing and when called out you provide no educated retort of any kind). If you don't want to post your reasoning behind what you say then why say it (again) in the first place?

[Lyion]

There are almost no late term abortions done for the health of the mother. They are almost all done for social reasons. Regardless of if a doctor sticks a metal pick into a living thinking unborn baby, or just sucks it out with a vacuum, the child still has to exit the mother. Since babies can survive at 22 weeks, and the baby is coming out, the argument is very weak.

Also, this ignores the simple fact that abortion is an unnatural act that can equally cause many, many health issues in the future for women.

I can understand and respect ones decision to allow a womans body to be her own, but when does the child get rights? Does a murdered 3 month old baby not invoke emotions in you? There isn't a huge difference between that and most late term abortions.

Are you fine with late term abortions, Arlos? When should we not allow abortions? In any case in your mind?

[Spazz]

Once somewhere he posted his thoughts so he doesnt need to again. If you want to know just search his old posts. Hes a fuckin retard and he allways has been . I find it quite funny that he thinks hes above me.

[Jay]

Btw habit only has 1 "b" in it homeslice.

[Tacks]

Everyone is "above you".

[Spazz]

Theres another one who never has shit to say. Hows life tax?