Creation Museum or ...

[Zanchief]

It was a super Jesus boat?

Is that the evidence you were talking about?

[Tuggan]

Please remember that when it comes to my belief's it doesn't have to be wordly possible. Anything is possible under God.

How is someone supposed to have an open discussion about things, when anytime someone says ANYTHING that challenges what you believe you can just resort to "Those are my belief's, anything is possible under God"?

[dammuzis]

there actually alot of people that beleive this
the bible says "kinds" of animals
so horse donkey zebra and other horse like animals would all be 1 kind
also dinosaurs start off rather small so it is possible they were either younglings or eggs on the ark

yes there is evedence of a flood of biblical proportions (badlands of washington)

it is intersting to look at the facts that the people who beleive this theory put forth in a objective light

and yes evolution is a religeon... you cannot prove with bones that one animal was the ancestor of a different animal you have to beleive it

personally i think we are in danger of the giant spagetti monster comming back to eat us

[Reynaldo]

I thought the dinosaurs were supposedly wiped out in the flood and n"missed the boat" get it? lol? My faith vs. science database is quite rusty though =/

[Tossica]

Mark has to be kidding. Right...?

[Griever]

The only thing I can think of in Mark's defense is that in Paradise Lost before Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Wisdom, all animals were peaceful and did not hunt eachother. After they ate the fruit the world changed. Carnivores, seasons and birth trough labor came to be.

But Paradise Lost is not the Bible, and dinosaurs being on a boat is reaching quite a bit.

[Xaiveir]

If the ark was real, and had all those animals on it, That is ALOT of shit to clean up each day! Or did the Dinosaurs do that for Noah as well?

[Snero]

yes there is evedence of a flood of biblical proportions (badlands of washington)

and yes evolution is a religeon... you cannot prove with bones that one animal was the ancestor of a different animal you have to beleive it

personally i think we are in danger of the giant spagetti monster comming back to eat us

how exactly are the badlands any evidence of a floor of biblical proportion? in order for this to be evidence you would need to show that a massive worldwide flood occurred at the same time in many different corners of the world. I'm not familiar with the badlands of Washington but at best it would prove that one small area in the globe was flooded for whatever reason

Evolution most certainly is not a religion, it is a scientific theory based on observed facts. There really is not faith involved. Evolution is the best model we currently have to explain where humans and animals came from. We don't know that any given animal was the ancestor of any other, we can't considering we can't be there to witness centuries and millennia of development, however we can say that based on fossil records, and DNA evidence, there is a very very strong case to be made that one species is a direct descendant of another.

Evolution is not like math where things are clear cut. It is the best idea we have that can explain everything we've observed, it's not perfect and some portions of it are changing all the time. A good analogy is our understanding of the atom (skipping a few steps), we first thought it was a hard core of positive and negative charges. Then we discovered that atoms were mostly empty space, that there was just a very small core surrounded by electrons, so we thought it was like a planet, with the sun being the core (protons and neutrons) and the planets were the electrons. We then discovered that electrons didn't orbit the atom but they existed in different states of energy.

Evolution isn't perfect, but it is based on fact

[Griever]

Evolution is a theory. "Belief" in evolution is a religion. Scientology would be an example.

Saying something is or is not a religion is not as clear cut as saying one's belief is based on "magical" proportions or scientific proportions.

[Arlos]

They know what caused the badlands in Washington. During an ice age, there was a giant lake to the north of there, that was held in by an ice dam from a glacier. This lake was larger than any of the Great lakes is today. Eventually, as the planet warmed up, that ice dam got weaker and weaker, until finally it gave way all at once, letting the lake drain out completely in 1 big rush. Now, if Noah's flood were real, and happened only a few thousand years ago, a) those ripples would be MUCH more fresh, and b) you'd see similar ones all over the planet. No such planetwide system exists, period.

Now, some math for the creationist to gnaw on, taken point by point:

1) the formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3 (pi) * r^3, where r is the radius of the sphere. Pi is, of course, 3.14159, etc. The formula for the surface area of a sphere is 4 (pi) * r^2.

2) The diameter of the earth is 12,756km, or about 7900 miles.

3) Now, based on archaeological findings, we know that the ancient sea levels in biblical times were the same as they are now, so there was no more and no less amount of water on the planet then than now.

4) The bible says: "19 And the waters rose very greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heaven were covered. 20 The waters rose fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered."

5) Now, the highest mountain is, of course, Everest, at 29,035 feet, or truly almost exactly 5.5 miles, when you count in those extra 15 cubits. So, for this to be covered as per strict biblical reading, there must have been an extra 5.5 miles of water covering the earth. (note here that most spots in the ocean, other than the trenches, are right about TWO miles deep)

6) Plugging these diameters into our formula, we get a volume for the earth of: 2,065,236,933,777.68 cubic miles, and a surface area of 784,267,190.04 square miles. Now, if we add 5.5 miles to the volume of the earth, to get the volume of the sphere that is earth + water, we get: 2,069,553,407,068.24 cubic miles. Now, we can subtract the first number from the second number to get the volume of JUST the water that had to have been on the planet. This gives us: 4,316,473,290.56 cubic miles of pure water.

OK, now, for some observations on those numbers:

1) Dividing the total amount of water by 40 days, to find out how much it rained on any 1 given day, and then further by the surface area of the earth, we can determine how much it had to rain per day over a given square mile of the surface in order to accumulate that much water after 40 days. Plugging this all in, we find that it would have had to rain 726.5 FEET per day. Now, the world record for rainfall is just over 4 feet per day, and even torrential monsoon rains don't get over 1-2 feet per day. BIG difference between 2-4 feet and 726, yes?

2) Where did over 4 BILLION cubic MILES of water come from? Just as important, where did it go? Note that currently we have only 332 MILLION cubic miles of water on the entire planet. Same amount as in biblical times. Suddenly 4 BILLION extra cubic MILES suddenly poofed into existence and then vanished? How? Where?

3) The more water all around, the more water vapor that would get into the atmosphere, right? Well, it's been calculated that with that much extra water lying around, there'd be so much water vapor in the air that humans (nor any other land animal) couldn't survive it, we'd literally drown.


So, Mr. Creationist, you care to address these rather sizeable discrepancies, that anyone with even a 7th grader knowledge of geometry could calculate?

Now remember, if you claim "Oh, God Made it Happen", you have UTTERLY removed yourself from the realm of science, and are now stating a superstitious belief. SCIENCE is that which can be tested and proven. There must be natural processes by which all that you say occurred did occur, and those processes must be verifiable by scientific experiment.

Claiming "Goddidit" is a statement of supersitious belief. Fine, it's your right to believe that, but it is in *NO* way science. So believe it if you want, just don't try and claim it's a scientific belief or that there is scientific evidence for what is, in all actuality, an absolute scientific impossibility. Furthermore, since the concept of a global flood is SO debunked by science, don't be surprised if people laugh at you the same way they do those that believe the earth is flat.

-Arlos

[Tossica]

God did it.

[Harrison]

Lol Arlos sees a religion thread and pops wood, each and every time.

[Spazz]

You should try posting something other than a witless one liner once in a while.

[Harrison]

You should try being sober for a day and having a coherent thought once in awhile.

[Arlos]

How about you try contributing to the discussion, instead of swinging on my nuts?

-Arlos

[Harrison]

If a post is longer than one screen length, chances are I won't read that bitch.

Nothing personal, I just don't fucking feel like it.

[Arlos]

It's mostly simple math, and laid out step by step. *shrug* It's not exactly difficult reading.

-Arlos

[Tacks]

It is if you only have a GED.

[Harrison]

This is basically what I do for Arlos' posts.

Politics?

<insert republican hate, and/or George W. Bush slander here>

Religion?

<insert catholicism bashing here>

Gaming?

<insert 1337 feats I have accomplished here and numerous insults to the general populace of said game>

[Jay]

I agree Arlos' post are lengthy but overall I think he gives a fair assessment to anything he talks about whether I agree or not.

[Menlaan]

If a post is longer than one screen length, chances are I won't read that bitch.

Nothing personal, I just don't fucking feel like it.

Too busy working or are you still pretending to be sick? Oh nevermind, you're actually sick, it's just that no one else thinks you are or can find any evidence for it...

[Tacks]

Yeah because I mean it's a huge surprise that he'd have to make up an excuse to get out of his first full time job he's ever had in less than 6 months time.

[Jay]

Maybe he's sick from work? Making huge poles is difficult stuff.

[Harrison]

For the past 4-5 days I've felt somewhat normal for once.

[Lyion]

Which version of normal, ab or sub?

I liked the Arlos quote definition. That is a fairly accurate quote fu representation of his posting style, although he does use good grammar, paragraphs, and spelling when he makes his vast generalizations, even on subjects like this where he is correct.