States dealing with abortion

[Tacks]

I'm sure the shittiest parts of my life are much better than the highlights of yours.

[Arlos]

You didn't address my 2nd point, Lyion. What about later term fetuses they find have severe damage or defects? Some conditions don't show til later on, because the fetus isn't developed enough for it to. Sure, trisomy-21 does, but there are other equally severe defects that don't. Should it be OK to abort a child that will be born a vegetable, or that would require constant intensive care to survive at all, and even then wouldn't live out a year? Personally, I see no reason to bring such a child into the world, but then the other question I mentioned of whre the line is drawn rears its head, and the answer to THAT question, I just don't know.

As for abortions later in term, I guess I didn't make it clear enough earlier, but my support for voluntary abortions ceases at such a time at which the baby can independantly survive outside the mother. Note that a lot of those uber-preemies from before 24 weeks, I think it was, end up severely damaged for life as a result of being born that early; they just haven't developed enough.

The problem is, the point at which that changeover occurs is a nebulous one, and is probably different in every pregnancy, as the rates of development differ to some extent in everyone. First trimester, I have no problem with abortions at all. By the end of the 1st month of the 2nd trimester, I have a much bigger issue with it. By the end of the 5th month, we're starting to hit that boundry line, so I'd think someone should have a damn good reason for having waited that long to abort and suddenly now deciding to. Much older than that, it CAN survive on its own, and thus should only be aborted if the health of the mother is at risk, or if it's so defected as to be non-viable as a "person".

I realize that it is impossible to write a law based on a nebulous boundry line, and that's a real problem. But you asked for MY opinion, and there you have it. Figuring out statute law from my opinion would be a bitch, I'm fully aware.

-Arlos

[Lyion]

I oppose selective late term abortions, equally, Arlos.

Interesting debate, and I think there is common ground to be found on this subject.

[Spazz]

Doubt it tax. Im pretty content with my life. I find joy in small things and theres not a whole lot I wish for. Im well sexed well smoked and well fed. Might not be what you hope for in life but it suits me just fine.

[Tacks]

You have extremely low expectations for yourself with which most braindead retards could achieve. So I guess those are your goals in life, grats.

[Spazz]

My goal in life is to make it to tomorrow. Like worrying about how uber my video game character is or how cool my new motor cycle is is any better? I say simple life you say low expectations

[Martrae]

Your MIL is a stupid cunt.

Quite possible.

[Arlos]

Lyion, I do realize that late-term abortions resulting from health needs of the mother are not common, but not common is not zero, either. It DOES happen, albeit infrequently. So, rare as it might be, what do YOU think shoul dhappen in the circumstance where it's either abort the fetus (even late-term) or the mother dies. It DOES happen, so does need to be addressed.

As for the defected option, I guess I just don't see the point in giving birth to an infant that you KNOW will be a Terry Schiavo from birth, or that has zero hope of surviving. All that you're creating is pain, suffering, and ultimately, expense. (which might creat its own pain and suffering, but that's a seperate issue). I guess I just feel there's enough pain in this world already, that rather than inflict that much on all the people that would be impacted, it's better to abort the fetus instead. Again, this is only for the severest cases, though again, the boundry line is unfortunately a nebulous one.

-Arlos

[Tacks]

My goal in life is to make it to tomorrow. Like worrying about how uber my video game character is or how cool my new motor cycle is is any better? I say simple life you say low expectations

Because those things you listed have nothing to do with the simple life right? Sorry, most mature adults strive for more than just getting by. That's a pretty high school-esque outlook on life. LURL HAI I'M JUST GLAD TO BE ALIVE TODAY LOLZ OK TIME TO GO DELIVER A PIZZA AND SMOKE UP LURLZ.

[Lyion]

Check the figures on actual late term abortions because of the health of the mother. Be sure to NOT include mental health, either, which is a faux portion and does not 'endanger' the mother. It is almost zero. It is not infrequent, but very, very rare. The baby still needs to come out whether it is aborted or not, so the 'need' to do late term abortions is arguable. In the very few cases where it is validly needed, then it should be allowed, but again that piece has been in the partial birth abortion legislation every time it's been introduced, and still it's been fought by Planned Parenthood and the ACLU.

As for your second paragraph, should we just kill off Stephen Hawking now, since his body has been wrecked forever and he requires constant care and attention? I kinda don't think so...

[Spazz]

What are you doing in life that makes your life better ? Im workin out what troubbles me life one thing at a time but over all Im happy. Sorry that bothers you and you feel I should do more. I see people waste away at jobs they hate to afford things they dont need. I dont want that to become me.

[Jay]

Well spazz, I dunno about anyone else spazz but I just bought a new couch and I loved being able to afford it. Maybe I'm weird.

[Lyion]

What are you doing in life that makes your life better ? Im workin out what troubbles me life one thing at a time but over all Im happy. Sorry that bothers you and you feel I should do more. I see people waste away at jobs they hate to afford things they dont need. I dont want that to become me.

This reminded me of Fight Club

You buy furniture. You tell yourself, this is the last sofa I will ever need in my life. Buy the sofa, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your sofa issue handled. Then the right set of dishes. Then the perfect bed. The drapes. The rug. Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you

You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

[Tacks]

What are you doing in life that makes your life better ? Im workin out what troubbles me life one thing at a time but over all Im happy. Sorry that bothers you and you feel I should do more. I see people waste away at jobs they hate to afford things they dont need. I dont want that to become me.

It has absolutely nothing with buying shit you don't need. It has to do with setting goals for yourself and not just sliding by being a worthless nothing in the population. It's human nature to want to better ourselves, that's what keeps us evolving. If everyone was like you, we'd still be grunting around in caves covered in wolf furs.

[Jay]

What are you doing in life that makes your life better ? Im workin out what troubbles me life one thing at a time but over all Im happy. Sorry that bothers you and you feel I should do more. I see people waste away at jobs they hate to afford things they dont need. I dont want that to become me.

It has absolutely nothing with buying shit you don't need. It has to do with setting goals for yourself and not just sliding by being a worthless nothing in the population. It's human nature to want to better ourselves, that's what keeps us evolving. If everyone was like you, we'd still be grunting around in caves covered in wolf furs.

And killing persians with giant spears.

[Darcler]

Oh hey Jay, the mentioning of your couch reminded me.

PM Gid with the specs of the TV and you two can work out some kind of payment.

[Jay]

K, I gotta find the box for the TV to check the weight and see how much shipping would be too

[Trielelvan]

Lyion, I do realize that late-term abortions resulting from health needs of the mother are not common, but not common is not zero, either. It DOES happen, albeit infrequently. So, rare as it might be, what do YOU think shoul dhappen in the circumstance where it's either abort the fetus (even late-term) or the mother dies. It DOES happen, so does need to be addressed.

There should never be a situation where it's either "abort the fetus or the mother will die" that late in pregnancy (5+ months along). At that point, if it becomes life threatening, they will DELIVERY the baby via c-section and immediately put it into an incubator and into the NICU. They don't have to stab its brain, suck it out, and vacuum the baby out. It doesn't happen often enough, where it's actually medical necessity, to warrant having it be legal for the parent to have the CHOICE of having a late term abortion. That should be solely up to the doctor and made a special circumstance.

[Evermore]

Lyion, I do realize that late-term abortions resulting from health needs of the mother are not common, but not common is not zero, either. It DOES happen, albeit infrequently. So, rare as it might be, what do YOU think shoul dhappen in the circumstance where it's either abort the fetus (even late-term) or the mother dies. It DOES happen, so does need to be addressed.

There should never be a situation where it's either "abort the fetus or the mother will die" that late in pregnancy (5+ months along). At that point, if it becomes life threatening, they will DELIVERY the baby via c-section and immediately put it into an incubator and into the NICU. They don't have to stab its brain, suck it out, and vacuum the baby out. It doesn't happen often enough, where it's actually medical necessity, to warrant having it be legal for the parent to have the CHOICE of having a late term abortion. That should be solely up to the doctor and made a special circumstance.

this is true. we have a ward here specifically for this.

[The Kizzy]

K, I gotta find the box for the TV to check the weight and see how much shipping would be too

I wouldn't trust Jay, look what he diod with the whole Gargamellow, PSP thing!!!

[The Kizzy]

Speaking of Garg, today markes one week since she has posted.....hrmm

[Jay]

K, I gotta find the box for the TV to check the weight and see how much shipping would be too

I wouldn't trust Jay, look what he diod with the whole Gargamellow, PSP thing!!!

/shrug I got a better offer and I didn't have to ship it.

[Lyion]

Lyion, I do realize that late-term abortions resulting from health needs of the mother are not common, but not common is not zero, either. It DOES happen, albeit infrequently. So, rare as it might be, what do YOU think shoul dhappen in the circumstance where it's either abort the fetus (even late-term) or the mother dies. It DOES happen, so does need to be addressed.

There should never be a situation where it's either "abort the fetus or the mother will die" that late in pregnancy (5+ months along). At that point, if it becomes life threatening, they will DELIVERY the baby via c-section and immediately put it into an incubator and into the NICU. They don't have to stab its brain, suck it out, and vacuum the baby out. It doesn't happen often enough, where it's actually medical necessity, to warrant having it be legal for the parent to have the CHOICE of having a late term abortion. That should be solely up to the doctor and made a special circumstance.

this is true. we have a ward here specifically for this.

I'd really be interested to hear Kalec's take on this, as he is the most medically astute person on the boards.

[Burgy99]

Not to bump an old thread, but tonight Fox's House had an episode that was this exact topic. I was in and out of conciousness ( Flu ) but from what I did see, the baby's bladder wasn't working so it was poisoning the mother. They were forced to either save the baby, or the mother, and it had a very Housish ending. I wish I could go into more detail, but I was half asleep. If you can, go download the episode, it was really good. Did any one else watch this??

[Lyion]

That House episode is every reason so many of us are Pro Life. If you missed it, I suggest downloading it from BT or just checking out the recap

House itself is worth watching as it's a fun show, but this episode was extremely moving.

To sum up for the attention deprived:

The baby is 2 weeks from being viable and it's bladder is engorged causing toxins to leak out. The mother won't consent to an abortion, being she's early 40s and feels time is not on her side.

House pushes for her to have it saying it's just a parasite, nothing more. <Wow, we've heard that before>.

She refuses, so he tries a very risky procedure, opening her Uterus and then working on the baby from there.

Once inside, the baby raches out with his hands and gently grabs House's finger. His reaction is what most peoples would be, I think.

The show was really powerful, in my opinion.