The Result of Gun Control Laws ( mainly Handguns. )

[Snero]

If you don't think taking guns away from the public is a bad thing, if you don't think our power hungry government isn't drooling over the idea an unarmed public - you're kidding yourself. Democrat or Republican... they'd love nothing more than to turn this country into a dictatorship.

I hope you were wearing your tin foil hat when you wrote this, I don't think the president will be too happy that you can see his true intentions

[Zanchief]

In summation:

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th
Century because of gun control: 56 million.

Guns don't kill people, Gun Control kills people.

Why didn't all the dissidents just arm themselves with knives and cars and heavy rocks? We've just heard you guys go on and on about how dangerous any number of things can be so it clearly makes no difference if they're defending themselves with guns or boards with nails in them.

[Evermore]

If you don't think taking guns away from the public is a bad thing, if you don't think our power hungry government isn't drooling over the idea an unarmed public - you're kidding yourself. Democrat or Republican... they'd love nothing more than to turn this country into a dictatorship.

I hope you were wearing your tin foil hat when you wrote this, I don't think the president will be too happy that you can see his true intentions

power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Snerp its easy to sit in another country and make these tin foil hat comments. You are not here watching your personal freedoms being whittled away for any bullshit reason government officials can come up with.

[Snero]

there is a massive difference between the crap bush is doing and claiming that politicians want a totalitarian regime. Hell, if you look at Canada, the prime minister has more power (over our country) than the president does, and I'm not worried that Harper is going to somehow proclaim himself lord stephen the 1st and abolish all elections and the charter of rights and freedoms


edit: I just wanted to add, F harper, I still hate his politics

[ClakarEQ]

Im afraid you give way too much credit to the criminal element. People arent mugged? Car jacking is just a myth? Home invasions dont happen with people home?

Where would having a gun on your person stop one of these crimes?

You make it sound like anyone toting a hand gun is actually going to know how to use it, when to use, etc. It has been proved many times the common populace of the US is, hmm, less than smart. Now you're trying to imply these "smart" po-dunk folks in wyoming are going to be able to handle a situation like a car-jacking and actually defend themselve with a gun on their hip.

[Narrock]

Anybody who voted "yes" to this poll is a fucking inbred moron.

[kaharthemad]

time and again. when are you going to tell me how they plan to disarm criminals? Atlanta 12.5 minute response time standard for cops.
LA 8.1 (last calculated 2000 est up to 12 minutes at present day)
Chicago 10 minutes.
New York 2 of the 5 Burroughs at 7.8 minutes 3 at over 10.

Average time to which a break in will become violent? 5 minutes.

If you dont care about your kids and your wife thats fine, but I plan on protecting mine. And before you say "OMG A GUN WITH TEH KIDZ!!!!" Also look up how many kids drown as opposed to accidental shootings. Amazing the rabid monkeys out there latch onto that little shooting fact without looking at comparisons. its pretty damn shocking.




19 year old and below unintentional. Mind you we aint talking about criminal element or suicides. just accidental firings. This is CDC estimates (which christ knows why they thing they need to nose in)

214 were unintentional.

accidental drowings? According to the institute for preventative medicine, over 4000 annually. Most under age 14.

If we add in the total of shootings from 0-19 that are suicides homicides and such we are still under the bar at 3385. So where are all you peace loving, bed wetting, tree humping druids at when some kid dies in a bath tub?

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/guns.htm

:

* 214 unintentional
* 1,078 suicides
* 1,990 homicides
* 83 for which the intent could not be determined
* 20 due to legal intervention




Time to open safe...20 seconds.
Time to shoot intruder? 15 Seconds.

Average time in our area for police respone time? 6 minutes. Do you wanna bet the life of your family on whether or not they will get there in time? I dont.


Referencing Blacksburg shooting, Frankly I think the one person to blame is the moron shrink for not putting a flag in this Cho's medical record that would have shown up on his background check. Gun owners fault? nope. But the shrink should have flagged his record.

Also Virginia Tech cannot ban/expel students from schools for mental disorder problems. Because of a law done by Virginia Legislature? He was chucked out of atleast 2 classes MSNBC reports for threats and mental instability. So who has remote fault to this? Admin, Virginia Legislation ( I dont know which group of people pushed that fucking law thru but I bet I can guess)


Lets look once at the statistics:
Polytechnique (Québec), Dunblane (United Kingdom), Jonesboro (Arkansas), Columbine (Colorado), Nickel Mines (Pennsylvania), Dawson College (Québec), Virginia Tech (Blacksburg)

All of these were 'gun free zones'.

Seems tearing the weapons out of responsible people is not working....

[10sun]

Reminds me of that story...
Guy calls 911.
"911, whats your emergency?"
"I think I hear an intruder downstairs"
"Sir, we'll send our patrol car that is in the area when he becomes available"
"Thanks... <click>"

Guy calls back.
"911, whats your emergency?"
"I just shot a guy in my house"
"Hold on, we are sending a couple cars & an ambulance"
"Thanks. <click>"

5 minutes later a startled burgalar has half a dozen cops breaking into the house and asking who was shot.

[lareau]

I found this site. The statistics are pretty interesting but old
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html

[Spazz]

I saw this on another board and I thought id bring it here for you guys to read.

Dateline: April 19th, 2007 Washington Township NJ
Contact: Robert Kreisler, President
http://www.njcsd.org


On behalf of the New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense, and all Americans, we grieve for the souls and families of the victims at Virginia Tech.

Many believe that now is not the time to discuss the failings of "gun control". We disagree. Now is the perfect time, when the fatal failure of the system is staring us in the face.

Americans are increasingly becoming conditioned to believe that our safety is someone else's responsibility. Call 911, find a dark closet to hide in, cover your head and pray that the first person opening the door and finding you there isn't the criminal.

On any given day, there are approximately 75 firearms in the campus lockup checked in by lawful owners, as mandated by Virginia Tech policy. One year ago, a bill was presented in the Virginia legislature to compel the university to allow those licensed owners to carry their sidearms with them to deal with just such a crime. Even one of those guns carried by a student or faculty would have ended this, or at least significantly minimized the carnage.

Those legislators who defeated this bill must be held to account today. They are the ones who insist that police are our protection. We challenge them to explain to the public where the police were this week, and how this result is better than allowing legally licensed gun owners whose firearms were in lockup to be ready to thwart evil.

This is just one more example of what we call the "Sarah Brady Success Story." Anti-gun elements in our nation have been pursuing their failed philosophy for over 40 years. Handgun Control Incorporated refuses to admit that despite four decades – two generations – of failed policy, that gun control is having the exact opposite effect they hope. Yet they will waste no time in the months to come insisting that we need yet more of the same failed policy.

We didn't learn our lesson at Columbine or Lancaster. Japan didn't learn its lesson at Osaka. Russia didn't learn it at Beslan. Germany didn’t learn it at Erfurt. Australia didn’t learn it at Port Arthur. Xerox didn't learn it at Meridien. The list goes on and on. With one exception. Israel learned the lesson firsthand when the PLO targeted primary schools. Their civilians – parents and teachers alike – patrolled the hallways with their sidearms on a voluntary basis, and the attacks stopped.

Americans have been systematically deceived by a slanted press and political movement on a mission. There is an inverse relationship between gun control and its intended result. If one is in an automobile skidding out of control, you turn away from the skid, not into it, to regain control. Likewise, we must, as a nation, turn away from gun control.

Firearms legislation needs to be normalized. Average citizens need to be ready to work in tandem with law enforcement to confront evil and stop it immediately. We need to understand that firearms will never disappear. They are not new technology. Mankind will never lose the recipe for gunpowder, and humans have been sending a projectile through a tube for over 500 years.

Gun control is job security for criminals and a death sentence for Americans

[kaharthemad]

well put spazz. I could not have said it better. The problem is the same people that dont trust the gummint to protect them properly are the same sheep more often then not that say "we believe its ok if you have my weapon...here"

This is one debate that me and lyion will never agree on. I am very mistrusting of the cops ability to make it on time. Spending time as a police officer I know how damn easy it is to get cock blocked in traffic, even with the horn blaring and the sirens running, or to have a delay down the line from dispatch. The problem has gotten progressively worse.

Yes there is the old redneck bumpersticker "You can have my gun when you pry it from my dead fingers'. More and more this is how those of us that have license to carry and do so on occasional basis feel.


And now as the story creeps out you hear that the State of Virginia did not have anyone hired to enter info into the handgun registration system. Had they gotten off the pork belly for cattle farts or christ knows what other pork they spend they could have gotten a girl in there at 30k a year to put shit into the database.

One of the columnists I read put it this way: "Lets look at monday if there was a way to get a gun to one of the young adults or even a professor inside of the building would you approve it? Take a minute to decide...ooops there is another dead...better decide quick..."

Even if you think for an instance that there is a possibility that placing the weapon in the hands of a person that has gone thru the firearms safety course (which is required in the state of virginia) would have saved even half the lives isnt this as good a proponent for permits to carry?

My answer? Yes...yes I would. And to those of you that would have said no, I am pretty sure you would have been the one cowering on the floor waiting for the gunman to come back or for the police to figure out how to get passed the chained door on the building.

[Zanchief]

My answer? Yes...yes I would. And to those of you that would have said no, I am pretty sure you would have been the one cowering on the floor waiting for the gunman to come back or for the police to figure out how to get passed the chained door on the building.

I love the logic that someone who doesn't want to carry a gun around is a pussy. Who's the one with the penis extension strapped to his leg?

[kaharthemad]

did I ever say you were a pussy? I just dont trust my safety to anyone but myself. But come on zan...what would you have done? pray the 'bad man' does not come back with his firestick? or would you have tried to defend yourself? Oh wait thats not you... Your the type that believes everyone else should be responsible for your safety. While we are on the subject old boy...why do these shootings always seem to happen in gun free zones?

[Zanchief]

did I ever say you were a pussy? I just dont trust my safety to anyone but myself. But come on zan...what would you have done? pray the 'bad man' does not come back with his firestick? or would you have tried to defend yourself? Oh wait thats not you... Your the type that believes everyone else should be responsible for your safety.

I don't know what I would have done, and I'm sure you don't know what you would have done either. Being in a situation like that isn't quite the same as getting a boner at the shooting range taking your frustration out on paper targets.

While we are on the subject old boy...why do these shootings always seem to happen in gun free zones?

Texas and Colorado are gun free zones?

[Snero]

because maybe the gun free zones were set up in places were a lot of people regularely go? You mean countries with higher populations have more crime???

there is also a massive difference between wanting guns removed and wanting somebody else to protect you. Any question about what would anybody have done is pretty much useless, nobody knows. Hell for all you know, with all your tough talk, you could have ended up in the fetal position crying.

So the problem with him getting the gun was the lack of a clerk entering data, thats not so much a failure of gun control but more the government, and hey you know if you make hand guns illegal, he wouldn't have had the store to turn to to buy one at all in the first place.

[Harrison]

A former cop would not be cowering on the floor in the face of a pistol held by a retarded Asian.

Armed or not, they were specifically trained to handle such a situation in numerous ways.

[Snero]

unless you were in the exact same situation, you don't know. I'm sure there are police officers that panic in fire fights

[kinghooter00]

If everybody owned a gun, we should then bring back duals. That would make arguments alot more interesting.

[kaharthemad]

did I ever say you were a pussy? I just dont trust my safety to anyone but myself. But come on zan...what would you have done? pray the 'bad man' does not come back with his firestick? or would you have tried to defend yourself? Oh wait thats not you... Your the type that believes everyone else should be responsible for your safety.

I don't know what I would have done, and I'm sure you don't know what you would have done either. Being in a situation like that isn't quite the same as getting a boner at the shooting range taking your frustration out on paper targets.

While we are on the subject old boy...why do these shootings always seem to happen in gun free zones?

Texas and Colorado are gun free zones?

the schools were. Every attack was at a gun free area. I have yet to hear of an attack on say...Utah University, or any Police Academy. Why is that?




And as for what I would have done. well I can bet I would have not been cowering on the floor. Its called combat. Hell even those military trained people that disagree with me on the 2nd amendment, Lyion or evermore would have done something. Thats what we were trained to do.

You, believe with your whole heart that you should wait for someone to come rescue you. Thats what I call a coward and you will unfortunately always be one because you believe deep down that someone else should save you. Back in the day that was called a damsel in distress. When will you learn to take responsibility for your own well being?

Would I have fought back? damn betcha I would have fucking tried. My life matters to me as well as my families to know when I need to defend it. The only way I would not have fought back is if I would have been killed in the initial onslaught.


Your mother ever tell you that if someone attacked you to fight back? Or was your mother the one that said "if someone attacks you run and get someone to help you. Dont try and protect yourself."

[Zanchief]

You, believe with your whole heart that you should wait for someone to come rescue you.

Where are you getting this exactly?

I didn't realise snorting coke was part of being in the military. I'm sure you were only high for some of the days they taught you how to be brave.

[ClakarEQ]

Where are the stats that prove any of you are correct (the gun lovers that is)?

Where are your numbers that show having a hand gun has stopped or detered crime?

You are fighting for something that doesn't happen. You are fighting for a "what if". You have no fact to base your arguments on and have only focus on the "just because" or the "what ifs".

I've yet to see ANY information to imply having guns reduces crime or even slows it down.

The gun control laws are broken. Cho shouldn't have been able to buy a gun in the first place.

The only option we have NOT tried is removal (to be clear I'm speaking only on hand guns).

As for the other comments on the waiting to be shot and not stepping up. I fully agree. I wrote this once already but if even 3-5 of those students had balls of steal they would have bum rushed this guy into submission.

[Reynaldo]

The only way I would not have fought back is if I would have been killed in the initial onslaught.

Definitely agree with the majority of your points, but someone's head has to be turned into a canoe if you're going to get Wyatt in a rush.

Seriously though, if 10 people rush that guy, he maybe kills 3-5 before getting his turds pushed in. It just takes a huge sack to be the first one to rush. Would I do it? I hope so, but like Snerp says, you really don't know unless you're in that situation.

[kaharthemad]

You, believe with your whole heart that you should wait for someone to come rescue you.

Where are you getting this exactly?

I didn't realise snorting coke was part of being in the military. I'm sure you were only high for some of the days they taught you how to be brave.

typical COWARDLY response. When you run out of logical points you fall back on something that happened after my time IN COMBAT dumbass.

Of course you are the damsel in distress arent you? You seem so eager to place blame on anyone and everyone and no need to take responsibility for your actions or defend yourself. I ask again, look deep down...are you the type to cower and pray the big policemen will come rescue you? Or are you going to stand up and defend yourself? You keep waving a flag of truce and surrender in each post here. Not once have you done anything but stand up for defeatism.

Thank you zan for pointing out that when it boils down to it, your defatist philosophy, your views of the world, as well as your inability to beleive that you should defend youself or have that right to makes you a pussy.


So yeah, I think you are right. you are a pussy.

[Zanchief]

Never mind.

Yes I'm a coward because I believe in gun control.

[kaharthemad]

Why are you always so defensive and confrontational? I try to keep things civil with you but it's pretty much impossible.

I didn't realise snorting coke was part of being in the military. I'm sure you were only high for some of the days they taught you how to be brave.

I'm sure you don't know what you would have done either. Being in a situation like that isn't quite the same as getting a boner at the shooting range taking your frustration out on paper targets.

yeah your trying real hard to keep things nice there, fucktard.