Crazy ass people.

[Stabfase]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18233965/

[ClakarEQ]

I'm going to laugh my head off if it was a guy with a CCW (or whatever they're called, carry conceled weapons permit or whatnot).

[Lueyen]

I'm going to laugh my head off if it was a guy with a CCW (or whatever they're called, carry conceled weapons permit or whatnot).

Statistically speaking it isn't likely, although possible. It still wouldn't change the fact that concealed carry permit holders make up a minuscule percentage of those who commit crimes involving fire arms.

[Tuggan]

I'm going to laugh my head off if it was a guy with a CCW (or whatever they're called, carry conceled weapons permit or whatnot).

uh.. why?

[ClakarEQ]

Because of the discussion in the other thread. It would just seem ironic is all. There is an implied pretense that goes the way of, if you have a CCW you "should" be sane and all of that.

I don't call anyone that carries a loaded weapon, drawn, pointing at people or threatening them, as "sane" (not talking about police here just the wacko's that do THIS kind of thing).

[Martrae]

You may want to look up what's involved in getting a CCW. You can't just walk into an office, pay a fee and get one.

[ClakarEQ]

I'm clear on what is involved and I know it varys from state to state. In reality it isn't all that hard to get. It comes down to a gun safety class, a test, a short delay, and you're good to go.

[Harrison]

No, it's a lot more than that.

It is here in MA at least.

[kaharthemad]

Because of the discussion in the other thread. It would just seem ironic is all. There is an implied pretense that goes the way of, if you have a CCW you "should" be sane and all of that.

I think we already covered the reason why Cho boy was able to acquire a weapon. Last time I bought a firearm I had the cooling off period as well as a NCIC flag check. Both clean but still...his came back clean because some bureaucrat was too fucking stupid to hire someone to enter in the psych flags into the state computer.

I don't call anyone that carries a loaded weapon, drawn, pointing at people or threatening them, as "sane" (not talking about police here just the wacko's that do THIS kind of thing).

explain where you think CCW people walk around 'pointing' the weapon at people? How about threatening? Thats a good way to get privalegdes revoked and thrown into a nice cushy prison.

I carry concealed, and quite frankly I have permits in 7 states (8th state I let slip, need to renew). I have only pulled my pistol out once and that was during the hit and carjackings in Atlanta back in 1998. I was run off the road in the area where they were doing that. And quite frankly I was not planning on getting shot in the face for a 86 SAAB and 20 bucks in cash.

[kaharthemad]

FYI Clark, I would like to point out 3 of those state have a very tight restriction, and only because of my military status and my job at the time was I able to carry concealed. Since I contract up in those areas I still have my permits.

Also the NASA complex has records of any and all personnel that have permits to carry on the premises. You actually think if the person had a CCW it would not have been splashed all over the fucking news? The liberal media hounds would have had what equivocates to foaming dog fever until they announced it to the world and congress would have been in session screaming for something to be done. As for ability to sneak a weapon past security? Government inspection points are laughable at best.

I could name multiple ways to sneak a weapon past a security scanner. 2 of which would only require 2 pounds of plaster paris and a guard stupid enough to not check everywhere.

[ClakarEQ]

I was NOT saying folks with CCW are insane. I said that CCW or not, anyone carrying a loaded weapon pointing it at people regardless of what "approvals" they have are NOT sane (even pointing out that cops are excluded).

Please read and comprehend guys.

[Spazz]

Im not seeing how carrying and pointing it a people is one in the same . Claker have you ever been a victim ?

[Darcler]

[Spazz]

[Darcler]

Dude, exactly.

[kaharthemad]

I was NOT saying folks with CCW are insane. I said that CCW or not, anyone carrying a loaded weapon pointing it at people regardless of what "approvals" they have are NOT sane (even pointing out that cops are excluded).

Please read and comprehend guys.

see this is what you said....

I don't call anyone that carries a loaded weapon, drawn, pointing at people or threatening them, as "sane"

so by the use of the word or in that sentence you make it clear the any off duty cop, retired cop, or anyone not interested in waiting for the cops to rush to the rescue is insane.

So again, lets look at it this way, lets say you own a business. Every night you drive over to the bank to deposit that nights money in the bank. One night as you get out of your car a guy jumps out and forces you to hand over your money. Do you

a) let him have it? cause after all he only needs it to feed his family that is slowly being beaten down by the 'man'

b) Fight him for it even though he has a knife and your armed with a set of keys and a leather Armani Man Purse,

c) go armed with a handgun on your hip. Seeing this the mugger decides to pick on a 'softer target' Or if he tries to come at you, you have a chance of defending yourself.

d) carry concealed. Wait till mugger grabs your deposit, when he turns around shoot him in the back.


I'm opting c or d.

[Snero]

wow you really are gun happy

how about
e) avoid the situation entirely, go deposit the money the next morning during daylight when the odds of getting mugged are a lot lower

[ClakarEQ]

D would find your butt in jail, so you go ahead and shoot him.

I would go A. It is the safest of your choices and the reasons you've listed are moot because it could be for drugs or any number of things. Don't attempt to justify a hand gun for the exception.

I've only been a "victim" in the sense of a bar fight escalating to going outside and someone grabbing a bat but no one was hit by it as the police got there within minutes of us getting kicked out. I wouldn't call this being a victim though but it is about as close as I've had in my life.

Sorry to say but if you are a victim of a crime and use that as justification to carry a weapon you are insecure and probably think about a threats while you are in a foreign situation, and IMHO you should be counciled to overcome your fear.

If someone says some crap about I live here or I work there then you live with your choices, you can move, you can get a new job, etc. I would look at it no different than when someones says to the poor inner city kid "get a job, get a life, etc".

Kah, stop taking shit out of reference. If you're going to quote me use the entire scentence.

I don't call anyone that carries a loaded weapon, drawn, pointing at people or threatening them, as "sane" (not talking about police here just the wacko's that do THIS kind of thing).

To further better your reading skills, you may ask yourself, but clark didn't define "THIS".
THIS = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18233965/

I don't know why you folks are trying to change my mind, I'm pretty set in my ways. I am open minded to sound statements and I've had my opinions shift after reading anothers statements but your attempts are futile on this topic. I don't think hand guns outside of law enforcement by police or the like should legal. I have no issue with rifles as strange as that may sound but hand guns IMHO serve no real purpose other than to kill people.

You guys bitch about "Don't take my hand guns" or "If they take my hand guns they'll take my rifle". But in the same breath a good lot of you say "it is ok they tap our phones" or "I have nothing to hide so I don't care if they spy on me".

I have yet to see any numbers on how weapons being carried by the public has reduced or stopped a measureable level of crime and until you can provide this, you have no hope to change my mind or opinion.

[kaharthemad]

well we already knew what you would say Snero. Unfortunately I highly dount you have ever owned a business so let me explain what you usual day is. up at 5 am, dressed pressed and ready to go by 545. To the shop by 6am. Now I supposed you could run the deposit to the bank at 6am, however there is a problem there too. You can get mugged any time. If you dont believe me, drive up to harlem or queens and carry a deposit bag.


Amazing that you would be so willing to take away personal freedoms set forth in our constitution, steal money away from one class of people and redistribute it to another class. When and where does the freedom removal stop? Its a valid question. Because if they their way with on of the first 10, dont doubt for a minute some interest group will say the next set of laws are wrong.

So what is next? suggesting a communist owned country? Praising Stalin for his ability to keep people in line

those quotes are also pretty meaningless, and so is the comparison to nazi germany. This isnt the mid 1900s and certainly not before that

Yeah, and how many freedoms do you plan on taking away? Fairness Doctrine seems to take away the First Amendment for certain selected groups of people. Maybe we can fire up some 're-education camps' for people who dont think with your way of life next.

D would find your butt in jail, so you go ahead and shoot him.

Rather be judged my 12 then carried by 6.

I would go A. It is the safest of your choices and the reasons you've listed are moot because it could be for drugs or any number of things. Don't attempt to justify a hand gun for the exception.

yeah cause that will make the streets much safer if you let the criminals know there will be no resistance. Where do you live? I need a down payment for my new car. I know you wont give any resistance and your under the assumption that all crime happens at night.


As for needing 'help' and 'getting in touch with my fears' its amazing, when I was a shop owner I deposited my money every night in a 'rough neighborhood' I was always armed and the holster was in plain sight. . I have never been mugged while doing the deposit and I was always armed. Quite a few store clerks nearby me were mugged and one was hospitalized. So before you say "you were never in the wrong place at the wrong time' Save it.

I have been mugged. This was while I was in the military, in a foreign port. I fought back then and I will continue to fight back. Im not a fucking pussy that lets the world roll over me and take what is mine.

You might be, but I refuse to, and I refuse to be the statistic.

[ClakarEQ]

So you are implying that folks that do not carry hand guns or own them are pussies.

While I am against hand guns I am also against the removal of freedoms. I see no added value a hand gun has just like you see no value to privacy (as per other posts I could take time to dig up where you have no problem with the loss of privacy rights).

6 one way, half a dozen the other. If the GOV is going to remove some rights than that means ALL rights are open to removal. I am not condoning the removal of a single right, I'm suggesting hand guns should be outlawed. But on the flip side, you have condoned the removal of rights, like privacy for example (but I don't want to shift our current debate).

I've never said or agree'd with the complete removal of weapons. This is exclusively about hand guns.

Back in the day when I was a "big time" radio shack manager, I had to drop my money bag off at the drop box at night, generally it was around 11:00pm by the time the books got closed and such. Yes I was concerned that theft could happen, anytime you carry a large amount of money I'd think these thoughts are normal. However did I think my concern would be mitigated by me having a weapon. If I were to be robbed in these situations I'd even have a hard time figureing out how I could successfully defuse it had I been armed. I would think that the criminal would have the upper hand, suprise, and essentially have me in a pretty bad way such that compliance is all that is left.

BTW, I live in suberb of Detroit just a few miles from the guy that dismembered his wife, or the kids that got taken, or "name the crime of the week". Am I ever concerned that I'll get robbed or my house broken into, sure. I do not however think that me having a hand gun would actually INCREASE my saftey. In fact (and I'll do a quick google), I would bet that statistics would prove the opposite. Having a loaded gun on your person or in your house would make it less safe for the folks you care most about.

You already are a statistic, you've been robbed. You having a concealed hand gun won't stop the next robbery either, it will just make it more dangerous. Unless you can predict the future, the time you draw your weapon will be under a pretence of reaction. In this case, your reaction will be escalation not diffusing the situation.

I never said more crime happens at night, that said, I bet it does though.

Criminals do not fear the people so your point is moot. You should feel just as secure if you bought a BB gun in the shape of a glock or some crap (I'm sure they exist).

Arming the general populace is not the answer to stopping crime, I have a hard time believing you actually think this.

[Zanchief]

[d) carry concealed. Wait till mugger grabs your deposit, when he turns around shoot him in the back.

Wow, that is murder dude. You've just confirmed what I've been saying all along. It's not just the evil people you got to worry about, but every psycho (you) with a gun.

If they found you sane enough to carry a concealed firearm, I'm more convinced then ever that they need to take them away from everyone.

[Tacks]

Or you could just not be a flaming pussy and not have to worry about people fucking with you. I've never had anyone try to start shit with me.

[Snero]

well we already knew what you would say Snero. Unfortunately I highly dount you have ever owned a business so let me explain what you usual day is. up at 5 am, dressed pressed and ready to go by 545. To the shop by 6am. Now I supposed you could run the deposit to the bank at 6am, however there is a problem there too. You can get mugged any time. If you dont believe me, drive up to harlem or queens and carry a deposit bag.

I've never owned my own shop no, but I did pay for my schooling by selling ice cream, where I regularely closed the store, and guess what we did? after closing, the money from the cash register was put away in the store, and brought to the bank the next morning. Using extreme examples like harlem is a joke, and you don't necessarily have to leave your store with a big bag with dollar signs on it on the way to the bank.


Also this notion of banning hand guns being a danger to personal freedoms, the right to bear arms is protected in the constitution, but so is freedom of expression and there are a number of limitations put on that. Banning hand guns does not, to my knowledge, directly counter the constitution, other forms would still be available, like shotguns and hunting rifles.

[Evermore]

how is using examples like harlem, where alot of this type of violence actually occurs, qualify as a joke?


I'll tell you what. Any of you anti-gun people need to go and live in one of these neighborhoods for awhile. then form an opinion. cause until you actually been there you have no clue.

ban this ban that. any banning of anything is a removal of personal freedoms, and no matter what you say, it wont solve anything. so lets actually come up with a plan that WILL do something. Like start holding people responsible for their own actions and start teaching the next generation things like respect and honor and trust. how about that?

[Tossica]

Because most of the pro gun arguments are coming from white folks that live in rural Bumfuck, Jesusland.