Vegan parents guilty in infant murder

[Ginzburgh]

Then again, none of you would care if it was 6 weeks before birth and the infant was aborted. "Her body..."

Yeah, none of us.

The only reason I am for abortion is if the women was raped or the child is so fucked up in the womb it will be in horrible pain for its entire life.

Other than that, have the baby and give it up for adoption, there are tens of thousands of people that cant have babies that are looking to adopt.

[Gypsiyee]

er.. 3rd trimester abortions definitely aren't legal that I'm aware, and I'd assume that even most pro abortion people aren't okay with them

well I lied, they're legal but only in severe cases - less than 1% done in third trimester

[Lyion]

er.. 3rd trimester abortions definitely aren't legal that I'm aware, and I'd assume that even most pro abortion people aren't okay with them

Yes, they are. You can kill a child in the womb at any time, on demand. You can actually kill it while its still partially in the womb. It's called partial birth abortion. It's where they pull the head out and stick scissors through the base of the skull to kill.

Since almost all abortions are done for convenience, including the third trimester, your last statement is a bit off, too.

[Ginzburgh]

Why the fuck would anyone do that. Because they can't make up their mind?

[Gypsiyee]

Since almost all abortions are done for convenience, including the third trimester, your last statement is a bit off, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed.

[Lyion]

A better question would be why our politicians would rail against a law banning the procedure, and yet a ton of them did. Despite the fact people overwhelmingly are in favor of it being banned, and the fact it is never medically necessary.

There are millions of viable babies being aborted. Not 10-12 week old non viable fetus', but 20+ week ones that have brain activity and yet we have no issue with sticking a tube in and sucking them out like so much garbage.

I agree most Pro Choice people are fair minded, but I think the polarization and desire to have at will abortion at any point defended is going to make this debate into something more.

[Ginzburgh]

Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed.

100 is still a lot. The fact that it is only .01% of blah blah means nothing to me.

[Lyion]

er.. 3rd trimester abortions definitely aren't legal that I'm aware, and I'd assume that even most pro abortion people aren't okay with them

well I lied, they're legal but only in severe cases - less than 1% done in third trimester

Shoe me the facts of second and third trimester abortions only being legal in severe cases?.

[Gypsiyee]

I said nothing about second; but hang on, looking for the site again. I thought you were saying that less than 1% was wrong

[araby]

pro-life 4 life.

Rudy Guliani didn't come across on this issue very well, which I thought was too bad. I loved how the questions they took from politico.com were Yes/No questions haha. Although-two topics in one question can't bring a yes or no answer.

[Harrison]

Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed.

100 is still a lot. The fact that it is only .01% of blah blah means nothing to me.

That's my point.

That's a whole lot of murder unjustified and gone unpunished.

[Ginzburgh]

I am pretty liberal with everything but this and the death penalty.

[araby]

Yah I don't believe in killing people. That's all I have to say about that.

[Gypsiyee]

3rd Trimester Abortions:

At this stage in pregnancy, the fetus is probably viable. That is, it can survive outside the woman's body. In America, the Supreme Court decision "Roe vs. Rae" allows individual states to place very severe limitations on third trimester abortions. In addition, the medical societies in the states of the US and provinces in Canada have regulations that prohibit the termination of a pregnancy at this stage, unless it is to preserve the life of the mother. Societies usually place a limit of 20 or 21 week gestation. Some states and societies allow termination if the pregnancy was induced as a result of rape or incest, or if the continued pregnancy would pose a very serious health risk to the woman. Of all the pregnancies that are terminated, less than 1% are done in the third trimester.

it's on some religious site - pretty sure they mean roe vs. wade..?

[Gypsiyee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

[Martrae]

Jury: Baby murdered by vegan parents

By BETH WARREN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/03/07

A vegan couple committed murder when they didn't make sure their newborn received proper nutrition, a Fulton jury decided Wednesday.

The courtroom was so quiet after the judge read the verdict — the first of its kind in Georgia — that the clank of the handcuffs being fastened around the parents' wrists echoed through the room.
(ENLARGE)
Jade Sanders

(ENLARGE)
Lamont Thomas


The father, Lamont Thomas, 31, then called out "We're going to jail for no reason" as his girlfriend, Jade Sanders, 27, stared ahead, visibly stunned.

Thomas told visiting Senior Superior Court Judge L.A. McConnell that he and Sanders were proud of their first child, naming him Crown. "We didn't starve our son for weeks and weeks," the dad said before deputies led him out of the courtroom.

The verdicts mean the couple will receive automatic life sentences. The judge might tack on more prison time at a sentencing hearing next week.

After hearing the verdicts, Sanders' and Thomas' mothers sat silently, wiping at tears. They remembered a grandson who smiled and laughed and didn't cry any more than any other child, said Thomas' attorney, Brandon Lewis.

Lewis turned to the defendants' moms and vowed to appeal: "I want you to remember, it's far from being over."

The infant was born in the bathtub of a Buckhead apartment but never taken to a doctor while alive. He was dead when his parents took him to Piedmont Hospital, across the street from their apartment, April 25, 2004. At six weeks old he weighed just 3 1/2 pounds and was so emaciated, doctors could count his bones through his skin.

Fulton prosecutor Chuck Boring said the verdict isn't a condemnation of veganism, a strict form of vegetarianism that doesn't allow the consumption or use of animal products. Instead, jurors believed prosecutors' assertions that the couple intentionally neglected and underfed the child and then tried to use the lifestyle as a shield.

In similar cases, a New York jury convicted a vegan couple on murder charges in the death of their child, but a Florida jury was more lenient, acquitting vegan parents of murder and instead convicting them on reduced charges of involuntary manslaughter, an unintentional death. In that case, the couple had successfully raised two children as vegans, but their third child died.

"The vegan diet is fine," Boring said after the verdict in the Georgia case. "These parents lied about what they fed him. He just was not fed enough."

The mother initially told police she fed her baby organic apple juice and soy milk. But the soy milk containers in her apartment clearly state that soy milk is not to be used as a substitute for baby formula, her lawyer admitted. At trial, the mom said she also fed her son breast milk and soy milk formula.

Outside the courtroom, Lewis, the defense attorney, said he believes the parents unintentionally starved their child by feeding him apple juice that may have acted as a diuretic and blocked the absorption of nutrients from the soy milk, soy formula and breast milk. They never took Crown to a doctor because they feared hospitals were infested with germs, he said.

At trial, government witness and vegan expert Amy Lanou told jurors the child's health may have been compromised by his diet, but he should still have been alive if fed enough food.

Lanou, a nutritionist who authored the book "Healthy Eating for Life for Children," on raising children as vegans, said all parents should know that babies need adequate amounts of breast milk or formula.

Prosecutors Boring and Mike Carlson convinced jurors that the neglect was intentional.

Boring said outside the courtroom that he'd always be haunted by the case. "I'll never understand 'Why?' " he said.

[Harrison]

I would take pleasure in torturing those sick fucks.

[kinghooter00]

I am pretty liberal with everything but this and the death penalty.

You are against the Death Penalty??? Why????

[Ginzburgh]

I am pretty liberal with everything but abortion and the death penalty...

...what is the opposite of liberal?

[Arlos]

I'm against the death penalty if for no other reason than there have been cases of people on death row who were proved to be innocent. The system is not infallable, and I'd rather keep people locked up forever (a worse punishment than death, really) than risk the state killing an innocent man.

If we had some absolutely infallable means of determining guilt of everyone, then maybe I'd feel differently, but we don't. 12 clueless idiots deciding who has the better lawyer is NOT infallable.

-Arlos

[Ginzburgh]

I'd rather keep people locked up forever (a worse punishment than death, really) than risk the state killing an innocent man.

By your logic, if you admit locking a person up forever is a worse punishment than death, than wouldn't that be a worse punishment for the potential innocent?

[Lyion]

I am pretty liberal with everything but this and the death penalty.

My problem is neither party offers what I'm looking for.

The main things I have against the DNC and the left are their complete worship of abortion, their being in bed with Lawyers, their desire to tax and spend, and their overt desire to push corrupt unionization and over regulation.

I dislike the GOPs pro big business agenda, their being too in line with the religious right, their ridiculous anti social program agenda, and their views on the death penalty which I abhor.

In additition to their base, both have their own niche special interests which I detest.

I really wish we had more than two viable political parties. I feel 5 or 6 strong parties with a variety of platforms would allow for more debate and less special interests overriding the system like now.

...what is the opposite of liberal?

The word liberal has been very distorted, as has the word conservative. Neither mean their true definition.

[Ginzburgh]

I agree, that's why I could never define myself as being democrat or republican. Both parties can lick my nuts.

[Snero]

Then again, none of you would care if it was 6 weeks before birth and the infant was aborted. "Her body..."

you should stick with 1 emote replies to threads, it makes you seem much more intelligent

[Arlos]

Ginz: As long as he's alive, the potential exists for appeal and exoneration. Look at how many people that genetics project has freed, some who've been in for 15 years, 20 years, even longer. (They're a non-profit that looks into old cases from before they had genetic testing, and in many cases have confirmed that the person in jail is innocent, because it couldn't possibly be his semen, blood, etc.)

If that person is dead, even if evidence comes up that they're innocent, they're still dead.

-Arlos