Putin: U.S. Has Triggered New Arms Race

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:14 am

I feel this program is more like putting titanium shielded, gold encased, kevlar-woven impact-proof glass in all your windows and leaving the back door wide open.

It reminds me of CITGO's headquarters in Houston. It's a 4 story building and the top level, where all the Venesuelan executives offices are, has (rumoredly) special glass windows that can withstand an RPG attack. Nevermind that the front gate is just a flimsy wooden crossbar manned by a big fat black woman that doesn't even want to stand up from her chair to check your ID.

I don't profess to know the true intention of this program. I do, however, strongly believe it is NOT for the defense of a "rogue state" missle launch at Poland.

Post by **Lueyen** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:42 pm

From what I understand, the systems in question are designed to intercept ICBM's in space, and not more short range missiles that stay in the atmosphere. That pretty much rules out defense against non state based missile attacks if we trust the perception that it is unlikely that terrorist or other non state based organizations don't have ICBM capability. If it were not for defense against "rogue states", then Patriot batteries would fit the bill.

I've seen it suggested that the concepts Putin is talking about for missiles that can avoid anti missile defenses rely on the ability of newer missiles to make high speed trajectory changes to confuse shield missiles that intercept via plotted path predictions based on a strait flying missile. The problem for Putin, and partially why this is considered rhetoric on his part is that these trajectory changes can only be accomplished within the atmosphere and not in space. But again this would only be a problem if the attacker has limited numbers of missiles and couldn't simply overwhelm the shield system via numbers.

At least in this though Putin seems to not be making the same mistake of the past in focusing on numbers build ups to counter shield systems, which led to the bankrupting of the USSR.

If these systems are not effectively going to defend Poland from Russia, nor from lower grade non space based missiles, I don't see any other threat they would be meant to counter beyond rogue states with limited numbers of missiles.

Post by **Lueyen** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:35 pm

Lueyen wrote:At least in this though Putin seems to not be making the same mistake of the past in focusing on numbers build ups to counter shield systems, which led to the bankrupting of the USSR.

Or not ><.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070602.wputin01/BNStory/International/home

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:41 pm

Ha. The great russian bear will crush you!

10k goats the next big move he makes is resurrect the KGB.

Phlegm · Post by **Phlegm** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:52 pm

Lueyen wrote:
Lueyen wrote:At least in this though Putin seems to not be making the same mistake of the past in focusing on numbers build ups to counter shield systems, which led to the bankrupting of the USSR.

Or not ><.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070602.wputin01/BNStory/International/home

Russia has a lot more money to play with this time around. They are now the world biggest oil producer since passing Saudi Arabia late last year.

Phlegm · Post by **Phlegm** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:53 pm

Eziekial wrote:Ha. The great russian bear will crush you!

10k goats the next big move he makes is resurrect the KGB.

I wouldn't be surprise since he was a big shot in the KGB.

Post by **Ganzo** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:27 pm

you guys so clueless it's funny

Post by **Lueyen** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:10 pm

Ganzo wrote:you guys so clueless it's funny

So then share your insight?

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:47 am

Ganz, lets hear it man. I'd love to get your take on the situation over there. All my opinion is based on The Economist and they think Putin is leading the country away from free markets and capitalism.

Post by **Ganzo** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:53 am

Putin is trying his hardest to bring country out of shit hole that fall of USSR created. This is a country that has been a major world power from the days before creation of US till about 15 years ago. They had to overcome biggest economic/political catastrophe since World War 2. To this day majority of industry/resources/wealth is in the hands of crime syndicates that were created by thousands of special forces vets coming back from Afghanistan War and finding nothing at home(something US about to encounter once Iraq is done). They are fighting a terrorism war on higher scale than US with less resources/training. Patriotism is non-existent now in the country where 20 years ago majority would die for it. People are fleeing instead of rebuilding(not blaming them i left too though i was a kid still).

Right now the goal is to create a place people would be proud of again. Having a world class military power will do that for a wast majority there. It might sound like arms race but for them it is a step in the right direction. Not to mention that military industry employs about 30% of working population. They are actually creating job for their citizens(unlike US that actively allowing them to disappear).

I can go on and on, but you will still listen to a media propaganda over what i say so why bother.

PS. KGB(CHS -Comity of Homeland Security) never went anywhere, and is still there. Only thing that changed is it was renamed into FSB(FCS - Federal Comity of Security)

feel free to tell me how i got it all wrong

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:31 am

you got it all wrong :wink:

How strong is the crime syndicate? Could they topple the government if they wanted to? If not, why is it allowed to control the vast majority of industry (maybe the politicians are part of the syndicate?)

Post by **Ganzo** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:34 am

Government and Crime Syndicate are so connected that it would require another Stalin Cleanings to clear it up

As far as their strength, they run free in Russia, US and other countries without much trouble. Military training and organization has huge bonus.

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:01 am

Do you think Putin is moving toward another revolution like that of Lenin and the Bolsheviks?

kinghooter00 · Post by **kinghooter00** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:40 am

this all should be fun to watch...

Post by **Ganzo** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:44 am

Eziekial wrote:Do you think Putin is moving toward another revolution like that of Lenin and the Bolsheviks?

No, why?

I think he's going into "totalitarian democracy" - absolute freedom under absolute controll

kinghooter00 · Post by **kinghooter00** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:48 am

wow, i can't see a good outcome of warring with russia.

Post by **Ganzo** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:53 am

ya cause than China wins