Life Term for Teen in Principal's Death

[Lyion]

Nobody is arguing he did not commit murder. Nobody is arguing he did not deserve to be convicted and punished.

Some of us just feel his punishment was excessive given his age and the circumstances.

Dang, Gyp. You're pretty uncompassionate for this kid. I guess some of your Dad and his views did rub off on you.

[Gypsiyee]

I'm not compassionate for someone who kills someone and tries to evade the blame by bringing in a ton of other separate things as a means to invoke pity, sorry

[Lyion]

Many agree with you. I prefer to look at each situation independently.

I do not feel the punishment fit the crime in this circumstance, but I can empathize with those who do.

[Gypsiyee]

I'm just trying to put myself in that family's shoes. If it was *my* family member that was ripped from me and someone looked at me and said 'well the poor kid, we shouldn't blame him, he's just a kid who's dealt with bad stuff - lets keep him out of jail' I'd probably boil over with enough rage to wrestle an elephant.

Imagine if this was your wife, or your son who was killed.. just really think about that - would you really want to go easy on the sentencing just because a few people think that he wasn't mentally preparing for a murder that day and he's a victim?

I just think it's tragic that the pain of the family seems to be minimized because all the focus is on the kid's traumatic life and why he's not at fault and he didn't know better.

If he's to be rehabilitated, he has to have to opportunity to learn that there is a severe consequence for such an action.

[Zanchief]

Why put yourself in the shoes of the least objective people, Gyps? It's the complete opposite of what should be happening.

[Martrae]

It's not minimized...it's just nothing can be done to help them. It's absolutely tragic and horrible that his kids won't have their dad anymore. But you can't mix up a family's desire for revenge (if indeed there is any) with what is appropriate justice.

[Gypsiyee]

Because they're the victims, and I could never put myself in the shoes of someone who kills someone - it's never necessary to kill unless it's self defense, and empathizing with the aggressor simply isn't something I'm capable of.

You can't lose perspective of who the victims are. You can want the kid to get better, but empathizing with him and relating to his crime and why he did it just isn't right, imo anyway.

[Zanchief]

All this right and wrong stuff doesn't matter. You shouldn't be looking at the situation from the victim's side because they can't see it clearly. You're purposely skewing your perspective. That's dumb.

[Harrison]

I don't care if he IS a retard, he still should be put down like a rabid animal.

If I go insane for whatever reason, and I kill someone in cold blood, you better fucking end my life.

My mental health is of no fucking consequence when someone is MURDERED. There is no "helping", just fucking put me down to save the lives of more possible victims.

[Martrae]

Wait until you have kids, Gyps and you're ironing out fights between them. It becomes easier to see both sides and mete out appropriate justice then. If you're gonna insure a fair and impartial trial and sentence then you have to be able to see both sides.

[Harrison]

All this right and wrong stuff doesn't matter.

Well in that case!

[Gypsiyee]

a squabble between children is not a court case for murder and isn't even in the same realm. I was a nanny and a preschool teacher, I know how to deal with small children and unimportant fights over whose doll it was.

Being impartial is only relevant in murder trials when you're determining if in fact the person did it and under what circumstances it was done under - self defense, cold blood, premeditated, etc. He did it, he brought the gun, there is no question about that. It doesn't matter why past that point, he murdered a man who wasn't a threat to his life.

all this right and wrong stuff doesn't matter? I'm sorry Zan, but I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on that. Right and wrong is *exactly* what matters, otherwise people could run around doing whatever the hell they pleased, as long as they had a reason for doing it.

[Zanchief]

all this right and wrong stuff doesn't matter? I'm sorry Zan, but I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on that. Right and wrong is *exactly* what matters, otherwise people could run around doing whatever the hell they pleased, as long as they had a reason for doing it.

I was talking specifically about your perspective. You are unable to see things objectively because you think it's wrong to look at it from anyone else's side but the victims. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that one side is easy to look at and the other is not.

The courts HAVE to be objective, if not they'd all be moronic like Finny and we'd be shooting people in the street to keep up our tough guy image.

[Martrae]

Justice is justice no matter what the level.

Being impartial doesn't stop with apportioning blame it also carries over to sentencing, which it didn't do in this case.

[Gypsiyee]

yes I understand that they have to be objective when deciding a verdict. It's not a matter of looking at one side because it's easy, it's a matter of two separate cases; one where he is the victim and one where he is not. The discussion here is of the case where he was not a victim.

For example, if a man killed his wife for cheating on him - this is a case where I, personally, could easily look at both sides because I'm so incredibly opposed to infidelity with a very intense feeling about it - however, if that man walked in and shot his wife, he would still be a murderer and would still deserve to go to prison for it. Yes, it's sad that he was hurting so badly that that's what he turned to, but it doesn't lessen the fact that he murdered someone, and in that case, murdered someone who wasn't even necessarily an innocent like this particular case where the principal is.

[The Kizzy]

Harrison, give up, noone is responding to you. Take a hint buddy!!

This is sad. Really. If what they say is true, why wasn't something done to help the abused kid earlier? Where were the police then?

I still think he premeditated the whole thing, or he wouldn't have brought a gun to school. He had PLANNED to hurt someone.

The justice system is screwy. For instance, they have no accesory laws in Texas, so my brother went to jail for 20 years on a charge of murder when he didn't kill the victim. He was there, but he didn't kill him.

Oh, and there is alot less ass raping in prison than most think. Ya'll watch way too much TV.

[Gypsiyee]

Oh and just to add - 'partiality' is all relative. I could easily say that you're not being impartial because you're sympathizing with him being an abused kid and you're looking completely at his side and not the side of the plaintiff because you feel that the dead are a lost cause and there's no bringing him back.

[Zanchief]

But I never said anything about the kid. All I've commented on is that he won't be helped in prison and he could be helped elsewhere. I'm stating a fact. He's either going to get fucked over (mentally and maybe physically) in prison or we can try and see if he can be reformed.

If there is NO benefit from the first option, why is the second option not the obvious choice? Your claim that the family of the victim wouldn't be happy about doesn't matter to me. It wont help them to see this kid suffer as much as they might think it will.

[Martrae]

Oh and just to add - 'partiality' is all relative. I could easily say that you're not being impartial because you're sympathizing with him being an abused kid and you're looking completely at his side and not the side of the plaintiff because you feel that the dead are a lost cause and there's no bringing him back.

No, I just see his circumstances as mitigating factors. You aren't willing to look at them at all.

[Gypsiyee]

That's not true - I said quite a few times that I would view it differently if it was his attacker that got killed, if it was someone who personally abused him that got killed. The man who took the bullets isn't an aggressor.

There are psychiatrists in prison, Zan - I did mention that mental health facilities for adolescents are *worthless* - another reason they won't do anything for him. It's not punishment for the family (though that is a factor, they should be granted the reassurance that he cannot do this again.) It's punishment so he learns consequence, so he appreciates his granted privileges, so he realizes what he's done. Delving into his brain and only finding out why he did what he did teaches him none of that, it only teaches him that there's justification.

[Zanchief]

So you think ass-rap will have a greater therapeutic reward on the kid then ACTUAL therapy?

I'll make sure to let Cosby know next time he rights a book about parenthood.

[Gypsiyee]

It's not about the ass rape, seriously like Kiz said you guys watch way too much TV. If you honestly think that's everything prison is about, you should maybe take a tour of one.

[The Kizzy]

They serve saltpeter on all the food for one, makes getting an erection very hard. (no pun intended) I am not saying it doesn't happen, I am saying it isn't an every day several times a day occurance.

[Martrae]

Um...I would hope in this day and age that most prisons would know better than to give the inmates saltpeter.

[Tacks]

They serve saltpeter on all the food for one, makes getting an erection very hard. (no pun intended) I am not saying it doesn't happen, I am saying it isn't an every day several times a day occurance.

ROFL do you seriously believe this? Do you know what you can make out of saltpeter?