Jury Duty

[Lueyen]

Well I just got done yesterday with serving for jury duty. I expected one day on Tuesday and ended up on a criminal trial that lasted through Friday. I've only ever been called twice, and the first time the date conflicted with travel plans I had for work, so I ended up getting dismissed from having to go. I'm glad I was able to go this time even with it screwing up my entire week, for those that ignore jury summonses, I'd encourage you to go as it is an interesting experience if nothing else. In the end we found the defendant guilty on three counts of child molestation. This was his second conviction, and the prior conviction was before Megan's law was in place in Oregon, so he was not registered as a sex offender. If he ever gets out of jail (minimum sentence is 75 months for each count although they can be served consecutively) he will have to register.

[Phlegm]

I hate jury duty. I had been summoned 7 times now with having to come down to the court 3 times. I got selected one time but they settled while on lunch break during the first session.

[Lueyen]

Yea, I know people who have went and never even got called to a panel, much less ending up on a jury. I suppose a lot of it has to do with where you live, there are a lot of cases everyday in the county court I was summoned to. We came close to having a mistrial at one point as one of the pieces of evidence we had in the deliberation room was court records of the previous conviction in a paper sleeve and while looking at it we found another document that had not been entered into evidence. It turned out to be related to the same case, and unimportant. We realized right away that it had not been entered into evidence and turned it over to the judge immediately fearing it was something we shouldn't have seen. Had it been something important and we had a mistrial that would have sucked.

[Tossica]

I've never been summoned but I was an eye witness in a double homicide and spent a day testifying. That wasn't anything I ever want to repeat.

[Iccarra]

I'm so dissapointed...whatever happened to the "if I'm ever picked for jury duty" plan?

[Lueyen]

I'm so dissapointed...whatever happened to the "if I'm ever picked for jury duty" plan?

Federal Cases not State Cases.

[Diekan]

The jury system is fucked and archaic. It needs to be abolished. The intelligence of the average person is scary enough, let alone allowing the fuckwads to sit in judgment over a criminal proceeding.

[Lueyen]

The jury system is fucked and archaic. It needs to be abolished. The intelligence of the average person is scary enough, let alone allowing the fuckwads to sit in judgment over a criminal proceeding.

The jury system is there for a reason, it is to make sure that the court system is kept in check. By your same reasoning we should get rid of voting and elections and citizens having any say whatsoever in government... if everyone is too stupid to be involved then we should just get rid of any semblance of populace representation and just go with some form of dictatorship.

Of the 50 people originally put on the panel all had graduated high school, and a very few didn't have at least some college. Of the 11 others that ended up on the jury, there was only one who's cognitive abilities I questioned. Among those 12 the majority were professionals in one field or another, we did have one home maker and one student. The one I wanted to throttle, who couldn't seem to grasp various concepts, nor seem to express his views in a logical manner was an engineer (go figure).

I don't recall the professions of some of the others, but out of the 11 people there was only one who might fit your description of the general populace. Maybe that is out of the norm, but I don't think so. I think much of it has to do with the number of people who skip jury duty all together. I'm sure that courts sometimes go after people, but it's kind of a joke for many people, and you don't usually hear of someone getting nailed for not serving. What I suspect is that the segments of our society like you described often times can't be bothered to show up and have no sense of civic duty, I wouldn't be surprised if this is in part why courts don't go after people who fail in their civic duty.

[Lueyen]

I've never been summoned but I was an eye witness in a double homicide and spent a day testifying. That wasn't anything I ever want to repeat.

I've testified as a character witness for someone, testifying is a whole different animal, and there is nothing about it that I would consider even remotely fun. Being a juror wasn't something I'd describe as "fun" or something I'd want to do everyday, however it was a good experience for the most part. It was far far different from testifying though.

[Diekan]

By your same reasoning we should get rid of voting and elections and citizens having any say whatsoever in government...

For one, there is no federal constitutional right to vote. Secondly, the average voter couldn't tell you who the Secretary of State is... you'd be surprised how many people can't even tell you which war was fought for this republic to gain its independence. So, no I don't think voting should be open to all. I think you should have to get a voters card that requires you to pass a basic citizenry exam before issue. If you can't pass it, then you don't get to vote. Don't like it? Tough - learn to read and spend a little energy learning about your government instead of what Britney is eating for dinner.

This country has gone to shit because the average American is a fucking moron.

As for the jury system. It is broken.

The vast majority of juries are comprised of people who couldn't tell you the first thing about the law. Hell, the attorneys start talking about evidence like DNA and they start thinking about lunch. Do YOU really want 12 average, drooling, American morons deciding whether a man is to die or not? I sure as hell don't. There is a fix - having panels of odd number judges to vote and decide. They understand the law, they understand the evidence, they understand the process. The average American understands very little of it.

[Tossica]

Not a good idea Diekan. The jury of peers needs to stay in place because not EVERYONE is a moron, just a large percentage and I'd rather risk my life in court with 12 random folks and have a least a handful of them be reasonable adults than have George Bush appointed judges deciding my fate ala supreme court.

[Lueyen]

By your same reasoning we should get rid of voting and elections and citizens having any say whatsoever in government...

For one, there is no federal constitutional right to vote.

I did not say there was. If you are willing on the basis of subjective determination of level of or average level of intelligence to start removing fundamental rights set forth in the constitution, then removing rights not set forth by it would be permissible for the very same reasons. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make here? It is by far more difficult to change the constitution then to change other laws. You are talking about removing rights from the constitution, I'm talking about removing rights not therein using the same exact reasoning you gave.

Secondly, the average voter couldn't tell you who the Secretary of State is... you'd be surprised how many people can't even tell you which war was fought for this republic to gain its independence. So, no I don't think voting should be open to all. I think you should have to get a voters card that requires you to pass a basic citizenry exam before issue. If you can't pass it, then you don't get to vote. Don't like it? Tough - learn to read and spend a little energy learning about your government instead of what Britney is eating for dinner.

This country started to deal with the very same issue you speak of in the early 1800's. You are taking an elitist (vs a populist) stance. While it is true that previous qualifiers for voting centered around physical conditions (property ownership, sex, race ect) and the qualifiers you advocate are in mental capabilities, who gets to determine the level of aptitude, specifically in what types of questions are asked? Would you require a simple understanding of government or advanced understanding that likely only historical scholars could meet?

This country has gone to shit because the average American is a fucking moron.

Seriously go to a third world country, and I don't mean a tourist area. I have been in some of the worst neighborhoods this country has to offer and in comparison to the dilapidated areas I've seen outside of this country our worst looks like a fucking paradise.

As for the jury system. It is broken.

What is your basis for that assertion? I'll agree that it is not perfect, no system is, but it is far from broken.

The vast majority of juries are comprised of people who couldn't tell you the first thing about the law. Hell, the attorneys start talking about evidence like DNA and they start thinking about lunch. Do YOU really want 12 average, drooling, American morons deciding whether a man is to die or not? I sure as hell don't. There is a fix - having panels of odd number judges to vote and decide. They understand the law, they understand the evidence, they understand the process. The average American understands very little of it.

I submit to you that a problem much greater then the ignorance level of the average man on the street, is that people who have never known anything but what they have and enjoy. What you are suggesting as an alternative is nearly the exact thing the founders in this country sought to avoid by implementing the jury system. Based on what you stated above I'm not even sure you completely understand how the jury process works.

[10sun]

Go me, I'm going to be called in as a witness before long.

Just witnessed a clusterfuck of an auto accident while walking home from parking my car on campus.

-Adam