Gyp.. Why do kiwi's hate America..

[Lyion]

I'm curious what your other half thinks of this.. I've never been there and both Kiwi's I know live here and are decent people.. Interesting...

http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1191930631.shtml

[Gypsiyee]

well, as a quick note before I read the article, I can say that one of his best friends is definitely an america hater, but that doesn't mean hes not a decent person. He just doesn't agree with our politics, and I can't say I blame him there

[Gypsiyee]

Well, after reading the whole thing.. personally, honestly I would say that as a whole, a LOT of countries would reflect the same opinion on the states. It's the same reason that there are movies like team america - it's very hard to agree with a lot of our political endeavors and our meddling will often get us poor reputations with countries who are, in general, docile.

[Tikker]

I'm curious what your other half thinks of this.. I've never been there and both Kiwi's I know live here and are decent people.. Interesting...

http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1191930631.shtml

news flash

most of the world hates americans, and I'm not saying that to stir the pot

[Gypsiyee]

ya, that's kind of what I was trying to say without saying it mean because I mean I like it here, but I don't get involved in the politics, I basically just live here and politically would quite frankly rather live somewhere else

another thing Jono mentioned that I forgot - he told me this ages ago; he said that american tourists over there are ridiculously obnoxious. he thinks the people here are great but it didn't match his outlook based on tourists he's met over there.

[Tikker]

ya, that's kind of what I was trying to say without saying it mean because I mean I like it here, but I don't get involved in the politics, I basically just live here and politically would quite frankly rather live somewhere else

another thing Jono mentioned that I forgot - he told me this ages ago; he said that american tourists over there are ridiculously obnoxious. he thinks the people here are great but it didn't match his outlook based on tourists he's met over there.

american tourists are some of the most ill informed, condescending motherfuckers out there.

i've got probably 100 different stories of different american vendors who show up trying to sell stuff, and are just shocked that we have all the same products, the same cars, etc etc


one guy was genuinely shocked that we had highspeed internet up here (and was how he put it)


don't even get me started on the asshole "hunters" who think sitting on the side of a grid road in the ditch with a shotgun is hunting "up north" in the wilderness

[Ouchyfish]

Someone has to be the bad guy so all the little good guys can play in the sandbox.

Besides...hating America and Americans based off of the few you have seen (in comparison to the whole country) is as bad as me saying all blacks are useless thieves and scumbags because that's all I have seen.

[Tikker]

Besides...hating America and Americans based off of the few you have seen (in comparison to the whole country) is as bad as me saying all blacks are useless thieves and scumbags because that's all I have seen.

and yet, it's almost universal that most folks dislike americans, and I'm betting it's not the same few people who all non-americans are meeting

the part you're missing, is that it's not really the individuals that people dislike, but the american attitude

it's hard to explain when you really can't see it from the outside

[Harrison]

Besides...hating America and Americans based off of the few you have seen (in comparison to the whole country) is as bad as me saying all blacks are useless thieves and scumbags because that's all I have seen.

and yet, it's almost universal that most folks dislike niggers, and I'm betting it's not the same few people who all non-niggers are meeting

the part you're missing, is that it's not really the individuals that people dislike, but the nigger attitude

it's hard to explain when you really can't see it from the outside

[Lyion]

I can say I've travelled probably more than most on this board and I've seen nothing like was mentioned in this article, especially from a Westernized country. Even the Gulf states are by and large very friendly.

I've lived in Britain, Asia, and the Middle East and not seen this level of angst towards us. In most places people have cultural tendencies to have bias, but not contempt, although given what is said about NZ, it makes sense. I'm just curious given NZ's hatred of America why your boyfriend would want to come here.

I'm not really worried about Canada's opinion of the US. It's like fucking New Hampshire up there, and not really a foreign country. Also, I doubt you have much of a clue of the world, Tikker. Lived anywhere overseas? Ever actually been to America for more than a Coaster visit?

Part of New Zealand's anti-American bigotry is no doubt due to size. New Zealand has four million people - roughly the same number of Americans who eat in their sleep or believe they've been abducted by aliens. Living in a tiny nation may make one cheer any victory over comparative giant - even in such a yawner sport as yachting. However New Zealand shares similar history and culture to the United States. It is a former British colony with an established democracy and similar religious background, with more Protestants than Catholics, and more Buddhists than Jews and Muslims. New Zealand has spent most of its time since independence under European-style socialist governments. However over the past decade it has become a strong advocate for free trade, especially in closed agricultural markets.

Yet Only 29% of New Zealanders had a positive view of the United States in 2004. That puts it on par with Pakistan at 30% and below Russia (43%) and China (42%). So much for the idea that shared cultural ties can bind people together.

In 2005, an American working as a high school teacher in rural New Zealand filed a lawsuit in the country's Human Rights Commission after being verbally abused by his students because of his nationality. Another American, Douglas Sparks, brought his family to the country to oversee the Anglican Church's Wellington Cathedral. Two years later he left vowing never to return after being the target of anti-US graffiti and his children were taunted in school by classmates telling them they hoped American soldiers would be killed in Iraq.

That same year outgoing US ambassador Charles Swindells in his final speech slammed New Zealanders for indulging in "empty, inaccurate criticism of US ideals or actions that offers no constructive alternatives and gives no credit where credit is due."

Many are quick to leap to conclusions that the anti-Americanism is a recent phenomenon due primarily to the Iraq War. However anti-Americanism in New Zealand predates the Iraq War by about 40 years, starting with the Vietnam War protests and more importantly for New Zealanders to the country's refusal to allow port calls by the US Navy starting in 1986, which resulted in a US freeze on high-level political visits there. In 1998, the Clinton Administration tried to warm relations up in one way by approving a deal that gave New Zealand a squadron of F-16 for a pittance to upgrade its obsolete air force. However the following year New Zealand elected an anti-American Labor Prime Minister Helen Clark who refused the offer.

In 2002, New York Times senior staff writer and former Clinton speechwriter James Gibney visited New Zealand to give a speech and was stunned by the level of anti-Americanism he found.

There was a very black and white view of US actions towards Iraq, and what our motivations were in the world. There was a sense that the US was much more of a rogue state than many of the countries that it labelled rogue states and that was kind of surprising to me. The other thing that was surprising was that people talked of US opinion as being monolithic. It was like we were all one and there was no distinction made between Democrats and Republicans or people who might disagree with Bush administration policies. That was unfortunate, because there seemed to be an animus directed towards America as a whole rather than just the administration’s policies [emph add] . That took me aback.”

New Zealand Ambassador to Washington Denis McLean attributes anti-Americanism to the country's "residual pro-Britishness." "For a long time we were quite happy with the British and I think a lot of people in New Zealand would still rather prefer the British to be running the world. We do think like them." McLean also notes New Zealand's isolation as being partly to blame. It's nearest neighbor, Australia, is a thousand miles away - greater than the distance between New York City and Bermuda. It's nearest neighbor to the south is Antarctica at 3,000 miles and to the east is Peru, 6,500 miles away. ”

The World War 2 generation that waited for the arrival of US marines in New Zealand to save them from an expected Japanese invasion is slowly dying off, replaced by generations who have grown up without any direct threat. Like the kiwi which lost its ability to fly in the absence of predators, young New Zealanders have lost the important roles defense and patriotism play in their own nation's health and security. Writer Joanne Black notes, "the flag-worship of Americans could not be further from the position of many New Zealand schoolchildren who would be unable to differentiate New Zealand’s ensign from Australia’s." Australia, having been attacked by the Japanese during World War 2, tends to take defence issues more seriously than its isolated neighbor. Former Ambassador McLean states "They’re slightly closer to Asia, but the real bottom line is that they know they are vulnerable. We tend not to think in those terms..."

[Tikker]

I'm not really worried about Canada's opinion of the US. It's like fucking New Hampshire up there, and not really a foreign country. Also, I doubt you have much of a clue of the world, Tikker. Lived anywhere overseas? Ever actually been to America for more than a Coaster visit?

Sure, i've been to quite a bit of the states, on multiple occassions

which isn't really relevant. it's when you take americans out of america that it seems to change things for whatever reason


and your first 2 sentences are exactly the attitude that causes most folks to dislike americans. that's the attitude american tourists present to the world

[Gypsiyee]

well.. I see that you bolded the part about the teacher. I will say.. big surprise, an american suing someone for typical stuff. All high school kids find *something* to criticize their teachers about, it just happened to be his nationality there. Then there's mention of the one other case - someone who's a 'victim' of graffiti and basically tauntings of teenagers. I can name *plenty* of instances of both within our own walls, and that's american vs. american hatred - does that mean america hates everyone who is singled out by graffiti or slander? Of course not - they're isolated incidents that this particular guy is choosing to escalate based on some speech from a 24 year old.

What you're reading is basically an anti-NZ blog from someone who really hates them, clearly. You'll also note that throughout the article, he misnames a tremendous amount of NZ's traditions etc - he's basically talking out of his ass and on a I hate NZ rampage not unlike a lot of people who go on I hate the US rampages who really don't know the inner workings of the country.

He's basically feeding off of a bunch of pick and choose opinions and not basing anything on his own firsthand experience aside from his wife being picked on. All in all, it's just a silly blog with inaccurate half facts that shouldn't be taken too seriously. I have quite a few american friends who've been over there and didn't experience a lick of this 'hatred' he speaks of, and no one has spoken ill of *me* personally, and I'm american and took 'one of theirs' so you would think that if they hated americans, I'd be subject to some hatred.

[Ouchyfish]

I'm not really worried about Canada's opinion of the US. It's like fucking New Hampshire up there, and not really a foreign country. Also, I doubt you have much of a clue of the world, Tikker. Lived anywhere overseas? Ever actually been to America for more than a Coaster visit?

Sure, i've been to quite a bit of the states, on multiple occassions

which isn't really relevant. it's when you take americans out of america that it seems to change things for whatever reason


and your first 2 sentences are exactly the attitude that causes most folks to dislike americans. that's the attitude american tourists present to the world

Well that is the opinion I have of Canada, I mean no offense but it just will never be a super power and shouldn't be taken seriously as such.

HOWEVER---if I was visiting that country or any other I would show some respect for WHERE the fuck I was and wouldn't display that attitude there. I find it distressing that Americans drag that attitude abroad with them. (I'm sure it isn't just Americans though, people just love to hate the big dog.)

[Lyion]

I'm not really worried about Canada's opinion of the US. It's like fucking New Hampshire up there, and not really a foreign country. Also, I doubt you have much of a clue of the world, Tikker. Lived anywhere overseas? Ever actually been to America for more than a Coaster visit?

Sure, i've been to quite a bit of the states, on multiple occassions

which isn't really relevant. it's when you take americans out of america that it seems to change things for whatever reason

and your first 2 sentences are exactly the attitude that causes most folks to dislike americans. that's the attitude american tourists present to the world

Except American people, like Canadians and French, and everyone are distinct and very, very different people. Your statement above is akin to me generalizing all Canadians act like the Mckenzie brothers. Obviously a Newfie and a Quebecois are vastly different, and would act very different abroad. This is the same in America regarding different people abroad. Granted, your experience with Americans may be mostly via sales people or James Bond movies, but I doubt you have any knowledge of Americans abroad. Most non western foreign countries couldn't tell the difference betweeen westerners, be they Kiwi, Brit, or American.

I could easily equate the large amount of inept IT professionals I know from Canada as being representative of that country. I do not. I judge based on individuals.

Most people in other countries do not dislike Americans. Or Canadians. Or others. Most people have stereotypes, but in most regions of the world the educated overlook them and judge based on character, and the uneducated generally either don't care or are on a different level of Mazlow's Heirarchy of needs.

[Harrison]

How is this any different than being racist?

[Tikker]

How is this any different than being racist?

who's saying it is different?

[Ouchyfish]

Uh oh--someone wake Zanchief...racism and Canada...

[Gypsiyee]

-Jonathan posting on Ash's account because hes to lazy to create his own-

New Zealand media is extremely liberal and tends to influence a lot of peoples opinions. We are on the complete opposite side of the world and never see any struggle which makes it very easy to judge others actions. That survey in the blog was conducted at a very vulnerable stage of US/NZ relations and reflects it. The blog was biased and shouldn't be taken seriously by Americans nor should it detract anyone from visiting. NZ and America don't see eye to eye on a number of things, the two main points being the war on Iraq and nuclear power. While I don't agree with the majority of military action America has taken I find it funny that NZ thinks its in a position to judge negatively. NZ hasn't had planes crashed into it killing thousands of people nor does it need nuclear power due to such a small population size.

Before the recent war America had a free trade agreement pending with both Australia and New Zealand and America pulled it as soon as we didn't support the invasion and gave it to Australia which left many people extremely bitter and basically made it look to them that the US was trying to buy support. Both the British and Australian prime minister endured huge scrutiny over sending troops to help the US and both parties suffered huge rating slides because of it. There was huge political conflict between Australia and NZ due to them helping America and you couldn't turn on a TV without seeing people protesting the war. Any mention of NZ supporting US military action would have been political suicide by our prime minister. You have movies like Fahrenheit 9/11 going to the top of the NZ box office persuading completely uneducated minds that America = Evil. It's still considered "cool" in the NZ youth to be a Bush hater and most consider the war in Iraq nothing but money/oil mongering all while wearing some ridiculous "Bush is not my president" t-shirt.

NZ in no shape or form hates Americans, just a large portion disagrees with America's foreign polices and/or are confused Michael Moore lovers. Americans don't get ridiculed as they walk down the street as the blog makes you to believe, we don't give a shit where you come from and political disagreements are fought over beers/laughing fits. The difference is purely political, not personal. NZ is taking a political stance that no one outside NZ cares about. We literally have 3-4 airplanes in our whole Air Force and other than our S.A.S troops which we deployed in Afghanistan our military is a complete joke and we like it that way. If we were bombed you better believe we are going to be asking from help from America and they would probably still give it to us. I have had nothing but positive experiences being here and I can say without any doubt that Americans are some of the nicest / courteous people I have ever met and I'm sure you would feel the same about us.

[Ouchyfish]

I like this guy.

[Markarado]

I've lived in China, Malaysia, Singapore, and the United States. I've heard a great deal of anti-American sentiment no matter where I've lived. Most of the negative feelings towards Americans are geared towards our polotics and foreign policy. I hear much more negative sentiment on a personal level towards other nationalities than I do towards Americans. Most Europeans still dislike the French over just about any other nationality. Asians have mixed feelings, but the general concensus is that Germans and Australians are by far the most obnoxious and rude people.

Personally, I've had good and bad experiences with French people. When I lived in Singapore I had quite a few French friends that were very friendly people. When I lived in Shanghai I had the opposite experience with French - I found them to be stuck up, arrogant, obnoxious, and rude. My experiences with Germans has generally been positive. They have no sense of humor and can be extremely boring and taxing to spend time with, but at the same time are generally nice people. There's just this one German fucker here in Penang, Malaysia that I could.. well.. he's an asshole. Even the other Germans make an effort to steer clear of this guy..... Part of my dislike for him is that he's probably the only person in Malaysia to have a Ford Mustang, a Corvette, and a Pontiac convertable of some sort... Makes me very jelous ;p

My experience with Australians has for the most part been bad. I find them to be extremely loud and obnoxious. Many of the Asians I've spoken to have negative things to say about their experiences with Auzies as well. Then again, I have to say that I've met some great Australian people.

Most Asians I've spoken to appreciate American tourists because they are actually interested to learn about the culture of the country they are in. They are more open to trying new things and just going with the flow. They tend to be more polite than other Westerners. Then again, they're saying all of this to an Americans face.

Every nation has their bad apples. It's as simple as that

[Dylan]

I'm going to Canada.

[Zanchief]

Most people have stereotypes, but in most regions of the world the educated overlook them and judge based on character, and the uneducated generally either don't care or are on a different level of Mazlow's Heirarchy of needs.

I guess that explains why you're so uneducated about Canada.

[Gypsiyee]

I'm just curious given NZ's hatred of America why your boyfriend would want to come here.

oh I missed this too - perhaps because he didn't come to the states for love of the states so much as came over because, you know, he loves me? =p

[Tikker]

I'm just curious given NZ's hatred of America why your boyfriend would want to come here.

oh I missed this too - perhaps because he didn't come to the states for love of the states so much as came over because, you know, he loves me? =p

I think you missed out by not going there instead

[Ouchyfish]

Do they have any ugly women in that country? I have never seen an ugly woman from there...honestly...