Dr. Watson is "racist"

[Harrison]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/10 ... index.html

LONDON, England (CNN) -- A British museum has canceled a lecture by Dr. James Watson, co-discoverer of the DNA double helix, after he claimed black people are less intelligent than whites in a recent newspaper interview.

James Watson won the 1962 Nobel prize for discovering the structure of DNA.

Watson, who won the 1962 Nobel prize for his part in discovering the structure of DNA, provoked a storm of criticism after his comments were published in the Sunday Times.

The eminent biologist told the British newspaper he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours -- whereas all the testing says not really."

Watson, 79, had been due to give a lecture at London's Science Museum on Friday but the museum canceled his appearance, saying his comments had "gone beyond the point of acceptable debate."

The American professor's words have been roundly condemned as "racist," with fellow scientists dismissing his claims as "genetic nonsense."

"He should recognize that statements of this sort have racist functions and are to be deeply, deeply regretted," said Professor Steven Rose of the British Open University.

Watson is credited with discovering the double helix along with Maurice Wilkins and Francis Crick in 1962.

In the newspaper interview, he said there was no reason to think that races which had grown up in separate geographical locations should have evolved identically. He went on to say that although he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

The British government's skills minister, David Lammy, who is black, called the comments "deeply offensive" and said Watson would only succeed in providing oxygen for extremist political groups.

"It is a shame that a man with a record of scientific distinction should see his work overshadowed by his own irrational prejudices," Lammy told CNN.

Watson is not the first scientist to show sympathy for the theory of a racial basis for intellectual difference. In March of last year Dr. Frank Ellis from Leeds University provoked anger in Britain after he admitted he found evidence that racial groups perform differently "extremely convincing."

You mean it's possible that some people developed differently than others?!!!??!?!?!?!?! OMFG RACISM

[Gypsiyee]

It's one thing to say that we're all simply developed differently and that science implies that there is a lower level of intelligence.. it's completely another to say that he's worried about our future and about black people and using statements such as 'employers who have had to deal with blacks' have had different experiences.

That statement and some of his others were clearly not strictly science based, and it'd be bullheaded and naive to think that it is.

You also have to understand the difference in that part of the world; the population and behavior is much different than that of your stereotypical 'urbanized' area over here that you seem to loathe so much. You didn't really catch wind of the type of discontent the US harbors with this situation until this whole switzerland fiasco recently. That part of the world doesn't have the same cries of racism that we do in the united states.

I don't necessarily think that his opinions should affect his ability to do a speech, though; I mean obviously the man is brilliant, but I can certainly understand why, for reputation and publicity's sake, they've cancelled it.

[Ouchyfish]

Yeah because wtf does this guy know right?

[Evermore]

i thought of this when i read that

There is no racial bigotry here. I do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless. And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps. Do you maggots understand that?

[Gypsiyee]

Yeah because wtf does this guy know right?

Who's saying he doesn't know anything? I said myself the man is brilliant - all I'm saying is that the way he worded his statements were simply not all science based.

The original statement should've been where he stopped with that - 'science implies that there is a lower level of intelligence in xx.' That would've been fine, and likely socially acceptable. He instead chose to go on to say that he's gloomy about the prospect of Africa and that 'people who deal with black employees [find they aren't equal]' and that's where he went over the line.

It has nothing to do with his brilliance, which he obviously has an abundance of - it has to do with knowing where to not cross your facts and your opinions in public speech - of course something like that is going to have a bit of a backlash, especially in a country where that sort of thing is minimal so there isn't going to be a torn issue over it; his speaking after those comments would likely generate quite a bit of discontent and might be a bit bad for business, steering away patrons of the museum.

It's a business move, essentially, and you can't really fault them for that. It's a smart move for their customers, and I'm sure in that general area if they were to poll they'd have a heck of a lot more 'no don't let him speak' than 'yes we'd love to hear what he has to say' after the clear mixing of the facts with his general viewpoint.

That's of course not to say that I don't have tremendous respect for the man, he's well deserving of everything he's gotten in his life- certainly more deserving of that nobel than, say, Al Gore.. what he's done for science and the medical field for that matter is incomparable and for that reason he deserves a vast amount of respect. I just think, in this particular situation, that he did quite an oops (regardless of the scientific facts, there's no reason that the research there should be shunned.) It's just the matter of putting bias on the facts, is all, which is what he did in this particular interview.

[Zanchief]

It doesn't matter what his credentials are, he's 100% wrong, and his statements most certainly are racist.

This, of course, would sail over Finny's head since his knowledge of science is about on par with his knowledge of women, but it's impossible to conclude from statistical information that a "black" genetic code lends itself to stupid people. The social impact of a person’s education is much too large a factor to come up with any genetic argument. It would be like saying people raised in poor families are genetically predisposed to stupidity. Furthermore, it's impossible to determine what constitutes a "black" person from a genetic level anyways, since the variation is so large.

It's clear from this statement "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true" that he's a racist cockface just like Harrison.

I think fat, red-headed New Englanders have a genetic predisposition to become high school drop outs. I have scientific evidence that proves it if anyone wants to read one of my papers.

[Ouchyfish]

He may be wrong, however, his credentials on the matter trump anyones on this board, therefore you can speculate and research all you want. Until you possess his papers or something close, he whips your ass in the discussion.

(Watson's that is, hahaha not Harrison's--that's just silly!)

[10sun]

As a whole, all of the testing does indicate that Africans are not as intelligent as Caucasians and in turn Caucasians are not as intelligent as Eastern Asians.

This is called The Racial Test Score Gap or sometimes The Black-White Test Score Gap. Heavily contested issue in sociology because the tests indicate one thing, but why they indicate that is root of the controversy.

[Gypsiyee]

Well I have to disagree, Zan, that there's no research or scientific evidence that says that the genetic makeup on the whole will alter the intelligence levels of a race - that's going to be no different than why we have different hair textures than asians who have different hair textures than african americans etc. imo - well, the same type of research that proves it anyway - different races are going to be wired differently, that's why we look different.

Him making that statement isn't where the problem lies, I don't think - the problem lies in his own personal bigotry that 'support' his facts afterward.

[Arlos]

He also completely retracted his statement.

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Nobel laureate biologist Jim Watson apologized "unreservedly" Thursday for stating that black people were not as intelligent as whites, saying he was "mortified" by the comments attributed to him.

"I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said," Watson said during an appearance at the Royal Society in London.

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways that they have."

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief," he said.

Yes, what he said is moronic. At least he seems to have realized it.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

Well I have to disagree, Zan, that there's no research or scientific evidence that says that the genetic makeup on the whole will alter the intelligence levels of a race - that's going to be no different than why we have different hair textures than asians who have different hair textures than african americans etc. imo - well, the same type of research that proves it anyway - different races are going to be wired differently, that's why we look different.

That's fine to say it's possible, but all his research is based on statistical data, and on a genetic variation that's far larger then that of most other races. Two black people have vastly different genes, much more so than a white dude and an Asian dude. It's impossible to narrow down the black gene, and even more impossible to correlate that fictitious genetic code to some deficit of intelligence.

[Ouchyfish]

Once again, I think Dr. Watson knows more about this shit than you do, Zan, with all due respect.

[10sun]

I've heard that roughly 18% of all African Americans actually have European genetic markers present, so that might be the reason why there are smart black people.

[Zanchief]

Once again, I think Dr. Watson knows more about this shit than you do, Zan, with all due respect.

His knowledge on the subject is being skewed by being a douchebag. It makes us pretty much even.

[Ouchyfish]

hehe ok point taken.

[Harrison]

OMFG RACISMS



MOAR RACISMS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap

This is nothing new. 10sun at least, isn't fucking clueless.

[Tikker]

I fail to see how pointing out the truth can be called racist

[Harrison]

I fail to see how pointing out the truth can be called racist

In this country, saying anything at all about anyone who isn't white, is racist.

That's why we have a "Black Entertainment Television", and if we were to put on a "White Entertainment Television" they'd be rioting in the streets.

[Zanchief]

I fail to see how pointing out the truth can be called racist

In this country, saying anything at all about anyone who isn't white, is racist.

That's why we have a "Black Entertainment Television", and if we were to put on a "White Entertainment Television" they'd be rioting in the streets.

There's already 4 "White Entertainment Television" stations. NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox. Racism is still abound in your country and you chose to dwell on these pettily little issues of reverse racism to comfort yourself in your bigotry.

[Zanchief]

This is nothing new. 10sun at least, isn't fucking clueless.

I'm not sure if you know how to read, but if there's a small chance that you do, you might want to at least glance through my post so you can begin to learn something about the subject you're pretending to know.

I don't dispute there's a disparity between races when it comes to academic scoring. I most certainly dispute this fact can be attributed to genes, and just about every single geneticist agrees with me.

You and this racist shitface are alone in thinking this elusive black gene makes people stupid.

[Tikker]

I don't dispute there's a disparity between races when it comes to academic scoring. I most certainly dispute this fact can be attributed to genes, and just about every single geneticist agrees with me.

stats showing geneticists agreeing with you?

i don't think it's completely a nature vs nurture thing

easy example would be running. genetics is what makes great runners, not just growing up around other runners (altho if you had identical twins, seperate them at birth, and put one with runners, and other with non-runners and you'll see a diff between the 2)

same thing with intelligence
if it was just pure environment, you wouldn't see much variation amongst people who live together in intelligence

some people are just smarter than others, it's just how it works


if he'd said left handed people were not generally as intelligent as right handers, you wouldn't even flinch

but the word black got used, so your insta-twist panties went into action

[Zanchief]

If you're ok with this statement coming from a supposed objective scientist then I'll step away from the argument and let you and Harrison high five each other all done long about how proud your are of your superior race.

people who have to deal with black employees find this not true

[Tikker]

If you're ok with this statement coming from a supposed objective scientist then I'll step away from the argument and let you and Harrison high five each other all done long about how proud your are of your superior race.

people who have to deal with left handed employees find this not true

it's only a racist statement, because you interpret it that way

real racism sucks
pointing out hard statistical evidence isn't

[Zanchief]

He's passing statistical evidence as scientific evidence. You do know the difference, don't you?

Saying anyone who works with black people knows how stupid they are is overtly and unconscionably racist, no matter how you cut it.

[Tikker]

He's passing statistical evidence as scientific evidence. You do know the difference, don't you?

Saying anyone who works with black people knows how stupid they are is overtly and unconscionably racist, no matter how you cut it.

i didn't see the word stupid in the quoted text

you're the one who interpreted not as intelligent, as stupid


and just as an exercise, quickly explain the difference (in your mind) between statistical evidence and scientific evidence