shooting in omaha mall

[KaiineTN]

hide out of direct line of fire from the door

I would have been quite entertained if you had said hide out of line of sight (and /y?).

[Tikker]

I still haven't heard how guns make you safer than non-lethal defense

fwiw, where I live the guns to people ratio is probably 5:1, yet we have less than 5 gun related fatalities a year

weird, you have to license weapons here

[Evermore]

i still havent heard how non-lethal makes you safer then guns.

btw tikk that was part of my point, it isnt the people who stay legal and license that are the problem. nor is it the guns.

[Zanchief]

i still havent heard how non-lethal makes you safer then guns.

There are nearly 1000 accidental gun deaths a year in the US. Those won't happen if people accidentally taser themselves.

[10sun]

hide out of direct line of fire from the door

I would have been quite entertained if you had hide out of line of sight (and /y?).

Careful, the zone is bugged and they can still aggro through walls.

[Evermore]

i still havent heard how non-lethal makes you safer then guns.

There are nearly 1000 accidental gun deaths a year in the US. Those won't happen if people accidentally taser themselves.

i wish i lived in the same bubble protected fantasy world you do

[ClakarEQ]

Maybe I missed it, but what do you propose to help reduce gun violence?

[Evermore]

ME or Chief?

[Zanchief]

i still havent heard how non-lethal makes you safer then guns.

There are nearly 1000 accidental gun deaths a year in the US. Those won't happen if people accidentally taser themselves.

i wish i lived in the same bubble protected fantasy world you do

So you think people will kill themselves with instruments that don't kill people?

[Arlos]

The problem is, Ever, is that not everyone is a RESPONSIBLE gun owner. I am in complete agreement that responsible gun owners are not part of the problem, and are very little danger to themselves or their families.

The problem is, with effectively unrestricted access to weaponry, we have vast quantities of IRRESPONSIBLE gun owners. These are the fucktards that leave loaded pistols without trigger locks in dresser drawers where 4 year olds can get at them, and you end up with a kindergartener killing another one because no one ever bothered to teach them gun safety. Or you have one of those wannabe gang-bangers carrying around a pistol and shoots someone in a drunken argument because they felt "dissed", etc.

The question is, what do you DO about irresponsible owners before someone gets hurt or killed? What do you do to slow down the crazies? That's why I support highly limited magazines, and don't think much of handguns. The risks in the hands of a nutter like at the mall, OR from someone irresponsible are absolutely huge. If everyone buying a gun were required to attend safety courses, get a full background check including a psych evaluation, and furthermore get a license and certification, I would have far less problem with more universal weaponry, as I would be much more reassured that only the responsible set of people would have the guns.

Unfortunately, that's an impossibility, and so I feel that some restrictions on types of weaponry in order to protect the rest of us from the morons are necessary. Blame it on the idiots ruining it for the responsible people, but until such time that we can guarantee all gun owners ARE responsible.....

See my point?

Lastly, in most situations where I would be assaulted/mugged, I doubt having a gun on me would help anyway. Someone pulls one on me, or sticks one in my back and demands my wallet, I am hardly going to attempt to go for a John Wayne-style quick-draw to blow him away, cause if I do, I'm dead before the gun is half out of its holster. No, I would do exactly what I would do if I was UN-armed: calmly hand over my wallet, let him leave, then call the police and then my bank to cancel my cards.

-Arlos

[Tikker]

i still havent heard how non-lethal makes you safer then guns.

if i accidently pepper spray a friend who stumbles into my place I'm betting he's not dead, where as if I shoot him with a gun he probably is


I'm not sure how this is difficult?


ps, if someone is breaking into your house, the only way you're going to successfully defend yourself is if you have the jump on him. it doesn't matter if you have a gun or wahtever
I would actually think that pulling a gun would make the assailant more likely to fire than if he knew he had a gun and you had a bat

[ClakarEQ]

Sorry, that was directed at you, Evermore.

I'm not one to offer a solution, I'm curious to know what could be done to reduce gun violence. While I am not a fan of guns, I'm also not a big fan of another right being taken away (even though I could probably tolerate a gun ban).

Increase cost of powder, longer delays, outlaw gun shows, etc come to mind as some potential options.

[Evermore]

So you think people will kill themselves with instruments that don't kill people?

you mean like prescription drugs? or a rope?

[Tikker]

let's back up a second here

Evermore, do you believe people should be able to own more than hunting rifles, or personal handguns?

[araby]

The right to bear arms is written in the Constitution and I believe in the Constitution and do not believe it should be changed.

The problem, is that many people do not feel the need to bear arms and don't and do not understand why others do, either. Guns are made for one purpose; to kill. They don't make the kind that are less lethal. I hate guns. I don't own a gun and never will. (I used to but it made me nervous so I gave it back to my father-in-law)

Am I less protected then? The only way a gun would save me, would be if I could get to it in time, in the case of someone coming after me, threatening my life. In this case, I'd better hope I either sleep with it (if I'm sleeping) or have a concealed weapons permit.

Another problem, is that we have laws in place in order to protect people. If the LAWS WERE ENFORCED and the PEOPLE WERE PROTECTED then we would not have the huge gun control problems we have.

I have no problem leaving the system in place if it could work, but the only way it will work is if Law Enforcement and Gun Control do their parts...the part they were supposed to do from the beginning. Protect citizens, provide guns to people who can legally have them.

[Zanchief]

So you think people will kill themselves with instruments that don't kill people?

you mean like prescription drugs? or a rope?

I'm not talking about suicides, that accounts for another 2000 deaths a year, but those I don't attribute to firearms.

I'm talking about accidents, like little Timmy shooting his brother in the face.

[Evermore]

ps, if someone is breaking into your house, the only way you're going to successfully defend yourself is if you have the jump on him. it doesn't matter if you have a gun or wahtever
I would actually think that pulling a gun would make the assailant more likely to fire than if he knew he had a gun and you had a bat

I have actual live experince with this situation and all i have to say Thank GOD for Mossberg. this is where my support of gun ownership is comming from.

[ClakarEQ]

Evermore, what would you propose to reduce gun violence?

[Evermore]

let's back up a second here

Evermore, do you believe people should be able to own more than hunting rifles, or personal handguns?

yep. If you are responsible there isnt an issue. I own a variety of guns etc. but i am responsible to the point of anal retentive about it.

[Evermore]

Evermore, what would you propose to reduce gun violence?

this is a long answer and it involves much more then gun violence. basically it comes down to respect, responsibilty and the family unit. I'll type it out and post but i warn you its gunna be long and not a quick fix.

[brinstar]

Nah, I acknowledge that this is indeed a terrible tradegy however the whole "sitting in my car and breaking down" bullshit made me want to puke.

There is much worse shit going on in the world (hell, THIS country for that matter) than a few mall shoppers getting wasted and this is what the little pussy cries about.

Who gives two fucks WHERE they were or how close they were in proximity.

You can all play the big cavalier route and have a morality contest, the fact doesn't change. The boo-hoo parade is misspent on this bullshit news.

there's something wrong with you

[KaiineTN]

Wasn't the right to bear arms initially intended to serve as motivation for the government not to abuse power, because with arms readily available and legal, citizens could easily create a militia in response to government tyranny? At least, that's what makes sense to me. It was meant to allow Americans to protect their way of life. Obviously in today's day and age, citizens with rifles wouldn't be able to do much in response to government tyranny. We'd need missiles and tanks in our garages for the government to see its citizens as a potential threat if mistreated.

I do not think firearm regulations will solve much of anything when it comes to crimes where guns are involved. How many criminals actually got their guns legitly anyways? These people that shoot up schools and public places, more often than not, are using their parents guns, are they not? More regulation would solve nothing there.

I don't think the government should have the right to tell you that you can't have a certain kind of weapon unless there is evidence of intent to use it for purposes other than personal defense or sport (the size of the clip shouldn't matter, whether it's automatic or not shouldn't even matter). Less gun availability doesn't necessarily mean less gun-related crime. It will probably only result in a larger black market for firearms.

[leah]

Nah, I acknowledge that this is indeed a terrible tradegy however the whole "sitting in my car and breaking down" bullshit made me want to puke.

There is much worse shit going on in the world (hell, THIS country for that matter) than a few mall shoppers getting wasted and this is what the little pussy cries about.

Who gives two fucks WHERE they were or how close they were in proximity.

You can all play the big cavalier route and have a morality contest, the fact doesn't change. The boo-hoo parade is misspent on this bullshit news.

there's something wrong with you

seriously, wow. "bullshit news," eh?

just because you don't have a sympathetic bone in your body doesn't mean you should deride someone else for feeling distraught and upset over a senseless tragedy, even if "only nine people" doesn't register as tragic enough to you. i bet the families of those nine people would disagree.

i'm not gonna front like i knew anyone who was there or anyone who died, but my heart goes out to the people who were traumatized by this awful experience or who lost loved ones. listening to the first-person accounts really tugs on your heartstrings--or mine, at least, since you don't seem to have any--and i'll admit i cried. doesn't make me less of a person just for feeling bad for the tragedies of others. you, sir, should grow up.

[araby]

kaiine you're right about the initial reason for the right to bear arms, at least that is also what *my* understanding was.

I stand by what I say, in that we have law enforcement for the purpose of protecting the public and believe that there would be less paranoia and personal need to own firearms if the person is not a collector or hunter...

I have a friend right now who owns a gun and is niether..has it for his protection..and that is his right. He went through the legal steps to own the gun and I respect that.

HOpefully I don't have any friends who own guns illegally or own them for the purpose of killing someone one day, but there is no way I can know that for sure. I put the responsibility of protection on law enforcement, they are there to enforce the law so I can live safely and out of harms way.

Do you know how many times I've driven through uptown and seen at least five cops within a three block radius?? As I pass over the crosstown into the ghetto area (to drop off a friend who can't afford to live on the other side) there are ZERO cops.

Im' not saying cops aren't doing their jobs but I think we could *always* do better..there's always room for improvement. We need more of them, they should be paid more money for their services (as well as firemen and teachers but that's something else..) and I think citizens would feel safer and protected, perhaps the need to own a gun for protection would come down, people trust that laws are being enforced.

[Jay]

To be desensitized to the mindless crimes resulting in deaths is a moral crime in itself however deriding someone who sympathizes over it is a new low. Maybe if there were a little more sympathy for other people in general, distraught kids wouldn't shoot up malls or schools.