Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Real Life Events.

Go off topic and I will break you!

Moderator: Dictators in Training

Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Narrock » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:51 am

Huckabee stands by AIDS statement Sun Dec 9, 4:56 PM ET



WASHINGTON - GOP presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee said Sunday he won't run from his statement 15 years ago that AIDS patients should have been isolated.

Huckabee acknowledged the prevailing scientific view then, and since, that the virus that causes AIDS is not spread through casual contact, but said that was not certain. He cited revelations in 1991 that a dentist had infected a patient in an extraordinary case that highlighted the risk of infection through contact with blood or bodily fluids.

"I still believe this today," he said in a broadcast interview, that "we were acting more out of political correctness" in responding to the AIDS crisis. "I don't run from it, I don't recant it," he said of his position in 1992. Yet he said he would state his view differently in retrospect.

Huckabee, as a Senate candidate that year, told The Associated Press that "we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague" if the federal government was going to deal with the spread of the disease effectively. "It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents," he said then.

In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," the former Arkansas governor denied those words were a call to quarantine the AIDS population, although he did not explain how else isolation would be achieved. "I didn't say we should quarantine," he said. The idea was not to "lock people up."

Huckabee stated his 1992 positions in an AP questionnaire in which he also called homosexuality "an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle."

He outlined is views for the AP more than a year after President George H.W. Bush, a fellow Republican, urged an audience of business executives not to fire or otherwise discriminate against employees infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

"There is only one way to deal with an individual who is sick — with dignity, compassion, care, confidentiality and without discrimination," Bush said in a speech on March 29, 1990. He also urged Congress "to get on with the job of passing a law" to prohibit discrimination against people infected with AIDS or HIV.

GOP presidential rival Rudy Giuliani declined to discuss the matter during a separate television interview Sunday, except to say he had heard Huckabee say it was not "his current position."

"I have enough of my own statements and issues that I have to deal with," the former New York mayor said, laughing.

Giuliani, who appeared on NBC's "Meet the Press," said in response to a question that he did not believe homosexuality was aberrant.

"The way somebody leads their life isn't sinful. It's the acts," said Giuliani, who supports gay rights and lived with an openly gay couple after separating from his second wife while mayor. "It's the various acts that people perform that are sinful, not the orientation that they have."



The way to fight aids is to pump more money into researching a cure, not isolating the individuals who have it from the general population. What the hell is this guy thinking?

Fuck the Huck.
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Lyion » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:01 am

he had heard Huckabee say it was not "his current position."
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Arlos » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:22 am

"I still believe this today," he said in a broadcast interview


-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Martrae » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:14 am

He is right, though. It is the first time carriers of a deadly communicable disease were not isolated. Heck, one man with a rare case of TB caused an international incident but even when no one knew for sure how AIDS was transmitted quarantine was never mentioned.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Gypsiyee » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:24 am

of course it wasn't mentioned.. we know exactly how contagious TB is and exactly how to handle it. When AIDS first came to be, no one had a clue how to handle it, what it was, where it came from - it was a new strain and people were having a hard time tracing the link. taking people away from their loved ones on a hunch with a disease that wasn't spreading by typical human contact by all research wouldn't have flown then, and it won't fly now that it's known that it's not spread through germs in the air.

he's not right, it's not something like TB, it's transmitted in a very specific way. not all people who have it are at fault and shame on anyone who thinks they should basically be thrown in a facility to die alone, treating human beings like they're some awful disgusting creature. feasibly you just can't treat people that way - it's not just a civil rights issue - *yes* it's a health risk, but it's a health risk unlike any other - it's not a temporary quarantine that would fix it, you can't quarantine people for life. that's called prison.
"I think you may be confusing government running amok with government doing stuff you don't like. See, you're in the minority now. It's supposed to taste like a shit taco." - Jon Stewart
Image
User avatar
Gypsiyee
NT Deity
NT Deity
 
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Lyion » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:16 am

He stands by what he said, and isn't trying to waffle, or pull a Clinton. I'm sure some will take it out of context, but the truth is pretty simple.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316228,00.html
Huckabee made the statements as a candidate for a U.S. Senate seat in 1992, the Associated Press reported, as part of his answers to 229 questions submitted to him by the AP.

But Huckabee said Saturday that he wrote those answers at a time when little was known about the virus.

"It's flattering that people now are digging back everything I ever wrote and ever said," he added. "And there must be something about my campaign that's catching on. But you know if the worst thing somebody can say about me is that 15 years ago I said that we need to be very careful about this transmission of disease, then I'm probably gonna be okay."


"If I was making those same comments today, I might make them a little differently, but obviously I have to stand by what I said," he told reporters at a stop in Asheville, N.C., where he was peppered with questions.

Huckabee said the focus at the time was to limit exposure, and that we now know the virus is spread differently than originally thought.

"But looking back almost 20 years, my concern was the uncertain risk to the general population — if we got it wrong, many people would die needlessly. My concern was safety first, political correctness last," he said.

Since becoming a presidential candidate this year, Huckabee has supported increased federal funding for AIDS research through the National Institutes of Health.


Funny. Tons of people around the Clintons end up dead, or silenced. Rudy has more skeletons in his closet than Ashe, and they focus on an AP question with a simple and cautious response about a disease. Even funnier the progressive will take his remarks owning up to the statement as an indication he agrees with it now, like Arlos did, which is complete Bollocks, but not unsurprising.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Narrock » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:37 am

Gypsiyee wrote:of course it wasn't mentioned.. we know exactly how contagious TB is and exactly how to handle it. When AIDS first came to be, no one had a clue how to handle it, what it was, where it came from - it was a new strain and people were having a hard time tracing the link. taking people away from their loved ones on a hunch with a disease that wasn't spreading by typical human contact by all research wouldn't have flown then, and it won't fly now that it's known that it's not spread through germs in the air.

he's not right, it's not something like TB, it's transmitted in a very specific way. not all people who have it are at fault and shame on anyone who thinks they should basically be thrown in a facility to die alone, treating human beings like they're some awful disgusting creature. feasibly you just can't treat people that way - it's not just a civil rights issue - *yes* it's a health risk, but it's a health risk unlike any other - it's not a temporary quarantine that would fix it, you can't quarantine people for life. that's called prison.


Exactly. To me, Huckabee is now displaying the mindset of a deranged dictator.
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Martrae » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:14 am

Gypsiyee wrote:When AIDS first came to be, no one had a clue how to handle it, what it was, where it came from - it was a new strain and people were having a hard time tracing the link.


That's EXACTLY when you do quarantine people. When you don't know. It's called precaution for a reason. AIDS was a killer.

You can't say it's not like TB when no one knew if it was then or not. What if it had been and nothing had been done to stop the spread?
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Gypsiyee » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:37 am

They knew that it wasn't spreading through regular contact - that's why it was such a stumper. The doctors couldn't find the link, because it wasn't causing any harm to people in daily activities and while the cases were increasing, they weren't spreading like wildfire as with something that's highly contagious and airborne. That much they *did* know, which is all the reason *not* to quarantine.
"I think you may be confusing government running amok with government doing stuff you don't like. See, you're in the minority now. It's supposed to taste like a shit taco." - Jon Stewart
Image
User avatar
Gypsiyee
NT Deity
NT Deity
 
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Martrae » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:02 am

They didn't know anything. They guessed and took chances with people's lives that fortunately paid off.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Gypsiyee » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:19 am

nobody "knows" anything when a new strain of virus comes along. things have to be researched, it's not a matter of taking chances with people's lives so much as forming opinions based on research, which is what people, especially doctors, have to do.

you see something new that doesn't establish a huge inflating trend in massive amounts the first thought won't be to throw people in a cage, because it doesn't look contagious. if you recall, the man who contributed to so many of the cases early on didn't seem to suffer the way the others had and his health didn't decline as rapidly as the others either.

their very early research told them that it didn't seem that it was contagious, and early on the cases were few. it took a while to escalate to the hundreds and higher, quarantine would not be productive at the rate it grew. quarantine is productive when there is a massive outpour of symptoms that are spreading at an uncanny rate when someone comes in contact with another.

even if quarantine *was* mentioned, it would've been impossible to get everyone who showed signs, and you would've had a huge backlash from those people who were assumed to have the virus and didn't. Skin blemishes seemed to be the trend of alarm back then, and skin blemishes could be anything. you'd put potentially healthy people at risk if you did it early on, and if you didn't do it early on at the very first sign the quarantine would be useless, if it was in fact something that was a balloon of contagious virus.
"I think you may be confusing government running amok with government doing stuff you don't like. See, you're in the minority now. It's supposed to taste like a shit taco." - Jon Stewart
Image
User avatar
Gypsiyee
NT Deity
NT Deity
 
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Martrae » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:43 am

Melodramatic much? No one said anything about cages. People have been doing home quarantines for ages.

Quarantine is a justifiable thought when you have a communicable disease that's a known killer and you have no clue how it's spread. How can you not see that?
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Tikker » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:31 pm

bullet in the face of aids positive solves the issue quickly

I think that people have done a poor job in making hard decisions to remove certain traits from the gene pool
Tikker
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 14294
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:22 pm

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Narrock » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:56 pm

Just got into an argument with my dad over this. He's a total proponent of Huckabee, and agrees with ol' Adolf Huck about the isolating of people with aids and hiv. Omfg how scary. :(
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Harrison » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:59 pm

Odd, I just got into a heated debate with my father about this as well.

It's not an easy subject to discuss seeing as his brother died to AIDS. (complications due to, since it's "impossible" to die to AIDS itself...if you want to be specific)
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
User avatar
Harrison
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 20323
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:13 am
Location: New Bedford, MA

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Arlos » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:17 pm

Actually, from what I recall of the time, it was pretty obvious right form the first that AIDS was not communicable via aerosol or simple vectors, the infection pattern was all wrong for it. They knew, for example, some of the people who were initially found with it were going to work every day, etc, and no one there had it at all. So, unlike something like TB, quarantining people was certainly not indicated.

Hell, we still don't know for sure how leprosy is transmitted (they're pretty sure it's got to be saliva, etc, but it is incredibly non-infectious, and it's never been successfully grown in culture). Yet we haven't quarantined leprosy patients for centuries. Just cause you're not 100% sure of the vector of a disease does nto mean you have a cause for quarantine. Quarantine is ONLY called for in the case of highly infectious diseases, where the risk of transmission is high.

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Martrae » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:25 pm

But they DID quarantine leprosy patients for a very long time. Not sure how that really helps your argument aside from the fact that finally they decided it wasn't needed. Letting them run around amongst the general population to possibly infect others definitely wasn't the initial modus operandi, though.

The problem is, Arlos, that they simply didn't know for sure. Yes, some offices had only one case while others had multiple. I can remember news reports full of theories about how it was spread but nothing concrete and in the early days they properly never ruled anything out. Given that general sense of uncertainty there was justification for suggesting that perhaps they should start quarantining people.

I just don't think Huckabee is an evil monster for thinking that it might possibly have been a good idea at the time.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Tikker » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:33 am

I still don't think it's a bad idea
Tikker
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 14294
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:22 pm

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Arlos » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:40 am

Martrae, we're talking about 1992 here. Such a call at that late date is utterly unconscionable. Maybe if he'd said it in 1982 it would be defensible, but by 1992 we'd already known for a DECADE that the main transmission vector was via blood. Hell, 1992 was FOUR YEARS after the Surgeon General distributed a booklet nationwide explaining EXACTLY how you get AIDS.

Hell, here's a link to a PDF of the booklet, which was distributed by Reagan's Surgeon General, Koop in 1988: http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/QQ/B/D/R/L/_/qqbdrl.pdf

Note that it details exactly how AIDS is transmitted, and the fact that it is impossible to spread via casual contact.

Here's a link to the timeline of the disease: http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp

Calling for a Quarantine in 1992 is a completely indefensible act, given what we knew about the disease then, and had known about it for going on a decade. Utterly and totally reprehensible and indefensible.

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Narrock » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:24 am

Tikker wrote:I still don't think it's a bad idea


How about the worldwide scientific community keeps researching until a cure is a found. That's a much better plan.
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Gypsiyee » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:47 am

Thank you Arlos.. that's exactly what I've been saying.
"I think you may be confusing government running amok with government doing stuff you don't like. See, you're in the minority now. It's supposed to taste like a shit taco." - Jon Stewart
Image
User avatar
Gypsiyee
NT Deity
NT Deity
 
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Tikker » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:53 am

Narrock wrote:
Tikker wrote:I still don't think it's a bad idea


How about the worldwide scientific community keeps researching until a cure is a found. That's a much better plan.


how about both at the same time?
Tikker
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 14294
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:22 pm

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Lyion » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:56 am

Mountains out of molehills. It ain't a big deal.

It's nice this is the biggest thing they can dig up on Huck, considering the dozens of dead people, corrupt deals, and shady practices surrounding the Clintons get no attention. There is nothing to defend here, and it was an AP question sheet 16 years ago when yes, we did not have all the facts on AIDS. Notthing to defend here at all. I agree with his statement, as would many, but certainly not those with a political axe to swing, making this into something it isn't.

Huck said he would go by the recommendations of the Center for Disease Control. In 1992 he feared the Clinton's were overriding the CDC for political reasons and wanted to make sure the best medical things were being done.

Huckabee wrote:In the late 80’s and early 90’s we were still learning about the virus that causes AIDS. My concern, as a Senate candidate at the time, was to deal with the virus using the same public health protocols that medical science and public health professionals would use with any infectious disease.

Before a disease can be cured and contained we need to know exactly how and with near certainty what level of contact transmits the disease. There was still too much confusion about HIV transmission in those early years. Recall that in 1991, Kimberly Bergalis testified in front of Congress after contracting HIV from her dentist, and that summer a study was published showing that HIV was transmitted through breastmilk more easily than had been thought. But the federal government provided some guidelines: Also in 1991 the Centers for Disease Control recommended restrictions on the practice of HIV-positive health care workers.

At the time, there was widespread concern over modes of transmission and the possibility of epidemic. In the absence of conclusive data, my focus was on efforts to limit the exposure of the virus, following traditional medical practices developed from our public health experience and medical science in dealing with tuberculosis and other infectious diseases.

We now know that the virus that causes AIDS is spread differently, with a lower level of contact than with TB. But looking back almost 20 years, my concern was the uncertain risk to the general population – if we got it wrong, many people would die needlessly. My concern was safety first, political correctness last…


Huck is a good guy, not a dirtbag like Giuliani, Romney, Clinton, and Edwards which means he probably has no chance.

The only good thing is this gets a lot more free PR for Huck, and people with common sense will mostly agree with him. The San Franciscan hate moderate peeps won't, but heck, that's probably a plus for a GOP primary.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Harrison » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:11 am

After what Giuliani did for NY City I don't see him being a dirtbag.
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
User avatar
Harrison
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 20323
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:13 am
Location: New Bedford, MA

Re: Huckabee just lost my potential vote

Postby Martrae » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:16 am

Arlos wrote:Martrae, we're talking about 1992 here. Such a call at that late date is utterly unconscionable. Maybe if he'd said it in 1982 it would be defensible, but by 1992 we'd already known for a DECADE that the main transmission vector was via blood. Hell, 1992 was FOUR YEARS after the Surgeon General distributed a booklet nationwide explaining EXACTLY how you get AIDS.

Hell, here's a link to a PDF of the booklet, which was distributed by Reagan's Surgeon General, Koop in 1988: http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/QQ/B/D/R/L/_/qqbdrl.pdf

Note that it details exactly how AIDS is transmitted, and the fact that it is impossible to spread via casual contact.

Here's a link to the timeline of the disease: http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp

Calling for a Quarantine in 1992 is a completely indefensible act, given what we knew about the disease then, and had known about it for going on a decade. Utterly and totally reprehensible and indefensible.

-Arlos



Yeah, and in Koop's little pamphlet it says you can't get AIDS from a kiss but according to your nice little timeline in 1997 they found that it could be. They threw out a pamphlet stating what they THOUGHT was facts to calm panic but they didn't really know for sure all the ways it was transmitted.

You have to remember his response was right after the whole Kimberley Bergalis thing where she got AIDS from her dentist, too. There had to be a feeling of frustration that you couldn't even visit your doctor without risking getting infected. Her case set off a whole new wave of panic, if you remember.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Next

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests