Fox News Excluding Ron Paul from the January 6th GOP Debate.

[Evermore]

you sure that wasnt a moment of clarity?

[araby]

Insanity??

The truth is that the libs writing the papers and news don't want you to think we have a TRUE CONSERVATIVE on the Republican party. I've had a real problem with this since the beginning...

We've got nobody! That's what the DEMS want us to think...because it is what will get them elected.

The Republican party needs Ron Paul because he's all they have. Is he extreme? Yah. He is. How does that matter any more than having a ex drug addict and alcoholic with delusions of grandeur in the White House for eight years pretending to know what he's doing??

We don't NEED a democrat for president...Ugh, this system is so stupid anyway. Caucus today...Obama is on my tv right now. I do like him...just not as much as RON PAUL.

I talked to someone last night who "in the reality of a vote" wants to vote for Ron Paul but will end up going with JOHN EDWARDS OR OBAMA...

In South CArolina...voting Democratic is the final choice as opposed to Ron Paul for Republican.

You people do what you feel is right in your hearts and forget what else!!

[Arlos]

Ashley, I think it's far more the Republican party trying to obscure Ron Paul than any "liberal conspiracy". If you want a parallel, look at how the Democratic party has distanced itself from and obscured Lyndon LaRouche. (with the obvious difference that LaRouche is generally a raving nutjob). Look at how Fox (the dedicated propaganda wing of the central GOP) is treating him for the NH debate.

Speaking *AS* a liberal, there are things I like very much about Ron Paul. However, there are things I do not like at all. I think disabling the social safety nets would be disastrous, as would disbanding important national issues like education, housing, etc. Sure, all those agencies could stand to be reformed some, what couldn't, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the way to go about it.

All in all, there's quite a few liberals who do like Ron Paul, and most of what I have seen, even from those of us who aren't enthusiastic about him, is that if we *HAD* to have a Republican elected, we'd far rather it be Ron Paul than any of the others. Still, since we're registered Democrat, we CANNOT vote for him in the primaries, since only Republicans can vote in them.

-Arlos

[Tossica]

The fact that he doesn't believe in evolution puts him in the "crackpot" group with Huckabee and the rest of the morons on the right.

[Arlos]

I don't recall him saying that. I know HUCKABEE said it, but I don't recall hearing that Ron Paul did. Linky please?

-Arlos

[Tossica]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw


He's another Jesus loving crackpot and has no business running a country.

[KaiineTN]

Paul was put on the spot with an evolution question by a religious audience and basically said that "it's a theory" and that he doesn't accept it as truth. He went on to say that no one has absolute proof of either side, and that he doesn't know the timing or manner of how things came to be. He doesn't rule evolution out at all.

[Naethyn]

The fact that he doesn't believe in evolution puts him in the "crackpot" group with Huckabee and the rest of the morons on the right.

So if I don't believe in the same idea for the creation of the universe that you do I am wrong? Do you honestly believe we will not have a better understanding of what truth really is before this existence is over?

You sound just like the people you call "crackpot"

Ron Paul believes in Christianity because it makes the most sense to him. He weighed the evidence and it won for him.

It is the people who believe what they are told to believe that are mistaken. I respect any person who makes a decision based off his own reasoning - and not just blind faith.

No matter what conclusion we come to. "I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."

[Arlos]

If you don't buy into at least the general theory of evolution, you're a nutjob on par with those who still believe the earth is flat. Period. End of story. There is WAY too much evidence to support the theory, and every new discovery we make just further supports the theory.

The irony is, it's not an either-or case. Believe God created us and guided evolution all you want. That's a statement of religious belief and is entirely apart from science. Science can neither prove nor disprove that a God caused the universe to come into being, or was the direct cause of the near-infinite sequence of mutations that resulted in humans evolving into being. It's not a scientific question. So it is perfectly reasonable to believe both in evolution AND believe that God created man. Just not *POOF* all at once out of nothing in literally a couple hours on the 5th or 6th day, whichever it was.

So, believe God was involved all you like, but to repudiate in the theory in its entirety, you might as well still be claiming the sun goes around the earth. You'll be just as wrong, and look like just as big a flaming retard.

-Arlos

[Naethyn]

If you don't buy into at least the general theory of evolution, you're a nutjob on par with those who still believe the earth is flat. Period. End of story. There is WAY too much evidence to support the theory, and every new discovery we make just further supports the theory.

The irony is, it's not an either-or case. Believe God created us and guided evolution all you want. That's a statement of religious belief and is entirely apart from science.

But to not believe in the theory in its entirety, you might as well still be claiming the sun goes around the earth.

-Arlos

To say my idea of existence is right and yours is wrong because mine is based of scientific method and yours is based off ancient script does not hold any weight. Neither truly prove what is really correct and neither bring us closer to the absolute truth.

I agree that Evolution is the best idea we've come up yet for our existence, but by no means is it complete. Evolution, just like religion, does not attempt to answer the question of why, but how. Religion itself is just another scientific theory. Not disproven, much like it's counterpart evolution, and also not proven.

The greatest difference between the two is if a scientific idea is proven wrong it is applauded. In religion the idea is shunned. This is the reason a religion evolves at a much slower pace than science.

[Tossica]

The fact that he doesn't believe in evolution puts him in the "crackpot" group with Huckabee and the rest of the morons on the right.

So if I don't believe in the same idea for the creation of the universe that you do I am wrong? Do you honestly believe we will not have a better understanding of what truth really is before this existence is over?

The "creation of the universe" has nothing to do with evolution. Believe what you want about how the universe was created but at least get the theories you don't believe in straight.

I swear, people hear a few things they like from this guy and immediately decide he is spot on. He's a fucking crackpot, lunatic so far detached from reality that he has no business in public office.

[Naethyn]

The fact that he doesn't believe in evolution puts him in the "crackpot" group with Huckabee and the rest of the morons on the right.

So if I don't believe in the same idea for the creation of the universe that you do I am wrong? Do you honestly believe we will not have a better understanding of what truth really is before this existence is over?

The "creation of the universe" has nothing to do with evolution. Believe what you want about how the universe was created but at least get the theories you don't believe in straight.

I swear, people hear a few things they like from this guy and immediately decide he is spot on. He's a fucking crackpot, lunatic so far detached from reality that he has no business in public office.

I never once said evolution tries to explain the creation of the universe. That was not my intent and I am sorry for your misunderstanding. My point is simply that you exemplified the common traits of those you call "crackpot". You have an idea of how something works. Anyone who doesn't match that idea is incorrect.

Anyone who pretends to know the truth is mistaken.

[Arlos]

To say my idea of existence is right and yours is wrong because mine is based of scientific method and yours is based off ancient script does not hold any weight. Neither truly prove what is really correct and neither bring us closer to the absolute truth.

I agree that Evolution is the best idea we've come up yet for our existence, but by no means is it complete. Evolution, just like religion, does not attempt to answer the question of why, but how. Religion itself is just another scientific theory. Not disproven, much like it's counterpart evolution, and also not proven.

Absolute, categorical, hip-deep, runny bullshit. Religion is in NO WAY WHATSOFUCKINGEVER a scientific theory. Religion is a metaphysical belief system. Science and religion are as far apart from each other as 2 concepts can possibly be. Religion asks you to believe in all manner of unprovable things, and calls that faith. Science, on the other hand, deals solely in testing, obvservation, and coming up with explanations that fit the facts for natural processes.

Religion is *ALL* about the "why." How is entirely limited to "Goddidit". Science, on the other hand, is SOLELY concerned with "How". It cannot in any way address "why", because that is not a scientific question.

The fact that you don't understand that simple and fundamental difference SHOULD, in any sane society, render you unfit from doing anything that could impact other people's lives. That is a distinction that anyone with an IQ higher than their hat size learns in fucking middle school. It is a free country though, so keep on believing that the Sun goes around the earth, and that the earth is at the exact center of the universe. Those of us who have a brain will have fun laughing at you.

-Arlos

[Naethyn]

To say my idea of existence is right and yours is wrong because mine is based of scientific method and yours is based off ancient script does not hold any weight. Neither truly prove what is really correct and neither bring us closer to the absolute truth.

I agree that Evolution is the best idea we've come up yet for our existence, but by no means is it complete. Evolution, just like religion, does not attempt to answer the question of why, but how. Religion itself is just another scientific theory. Not disproven, much like it's counterpart evolution, and also not proven.

Absolute, categorical, hip-deep, runny bullshit. Religion is in NO WAY WHATSOFUCKINGEVER a scientific theory. Religion is a metaphysical belief system. Science and religion are as far apart from each other as 2 concepts can possibly be. Religion asks you to believe in all manner of unprovable things, and calls that faith. Science, on the other hand, deals solely in testing, obvservation, and coming up with explanations that fit the facts for natural processes.

Religion is *ALL* about the "why." How is entirely limited to "Goddidit". Science, on the other hand, is SOLELY concerned with "How". It cannot in any way address "why", because that is not a scientific question.
The fact that you don't understand that simple and fundamental difference SHOULD, in any sane society, render you unfit from doing anything that could impact other people's lives. That is a distinction that anyone with an IQ higher than their hat size learns in fucking middle school. It is a free country though, so keep on believing that the Sun goes around the earth, and that the earth is at the exact center of the universe. Those of us who have a brain will have fun laughing at you.

-Arlos

[

Science is about creating a theory and proving it wrong. Religion is about having a theory and proving it right.

Be careful not to cross these paths. If you think evolution is the correct answer and because it has yet to be proven wrong, then your explanation, and even your understanding, is based off the same fallacy that you detest.

Furthermore,
I do think I understand the fundamental difference between the two. And I'm sorry if your arguments deteriate down to "the sun goes around the earth" argument. I thought science proved that a long time ago? Although, I would think anyone with an IQ higher than their hat size learns that in fucking middle school.

[Arlos]

Wrong again. (you make a determined habit of that)

Science is about coming up with an explanation for natural processes. (ie, things we see, things that are, etc.) They start out as a guess, and then are refined by observation & (when possible), experiment. If they're completely wrong, the guess is tossed out and you start over, so that you can fit whatever anomalous data existed that didn't fit the original model. Look at how Kepler figured out the orbits of planets as an example. He initially started off thinking they were circular and fit some intricate cosmic geometry, but observations didn't fit with his ideas. So, he scrapped his guess, and spent years trying to figure out something that DID work, and finally figured out that orbits were ovals, not circles. Ever since that, further expansions on to the theory have refined it, not changed it entirely.

THAT is how science works. Observation, data collection, and coming up with an explanation that works. Once a good explanation is in place, in the absence of some new evidence completely overturning the old idea, that idea is refined and built upon. (Much like Einstein's theory of relativity is a refinement of Newton's original theories).

Religion, on the other hand, is a set of SPIRITUAL beliefs. It is entirely concerned with questions of "Who created us, why are we here, what is our purpose in life, where do we go when we die", etc. ALl of which are areas into which science cannot tread, as they are not subject to observational data nor experimentation.

They are fundamentally vastly different and in no way interconnected.

Furthermore, as you obviously fail to understand, science never "proves" anything. Period. The only place you can "prove" anything is in mathematics. (or symbolic logic, which is just a subset of math, really). Hell, the "laws" of thermodynamics are themselves nothing more than theories. We could, tomorrow, find some process that violates them. To the best of our knowledge we won't, but they aren't "proven" either. The theory of evolution is what is called "Well Supported". As in, every bit of scientific evidence we have to date supports it. Sure, there are some pieces that don't fit perfectly, but none are so outlandish as to break the theory. It is at least as well supported as Newton's theories, Einstein's theories, etc. It is as close to proven as anything gets in science.

But more disturbing than your failure to accept evolution, is your utter misunderstanding of what science is and what religion is, and your refusal to learn the difference even when it is explained to you. "Religion itself is just another scientific theory" ... My gods, that is in the top 5 of the stupidest things ever posted to NT in its entire history. Congrats, you just made an exclusive list.

-Arlos

[Naethyn]

Science is about coming up with an explanation for natural processes. (ie, things we see, things that are, etc.) They start out as a guess, and then are refined by observation & (when possible), experiment. If they're completely wrong, the guess is tossed out and you start over, so that you can fit whatever anomalous data existed that didn't fit the original model. Look at how Kepler figured out the orbits of planets as an example. He initially started off thinking they were circular and fit some intricate cosmic geometry, but observations didn't fit with his ideas. So, he scrapped his guess, and spent years trying to figure out something that DID work, and finally figured out that orbits were ovals, not circles. Ever since that, further expansions on to the theory have refined it, not changed it entirely.

Science is about creating a theory and proving it wrong.

Religion, on the other hand, is a set of SPIRITUAL beliefs. It is entirely concerned with questions of "Who created us, why are we here, what is our purpose in life, where do we go when we die", etc. ALl of which are areas into which science cannot tread, as they are not subject to observational data nor experimentation.

Religion is about having a theory and proving it right.

They are fundamentally vastly different and in no way interconnected.

Evolution, just like religion, does not attempt to answer the question of why, but how. Religion itself is just another scientific theory.

Furthermore, as you obviously fail to understand, science never "proves" anything. Period. The only place you can "prove" anything is in mathematics. (or symbolic logic, which is just a subset of math, really). Hell, the "laws" of thermodynamics are themselves nothing more than theories. We could, tomorrow, find some process that violates them. To the best of our knowledge we won't, but they aren't "proven" either. The theory of evolution is what is called "Well Supported". As in, every bit of scientific evidence we have to date supports it. Sure, there are some pieces that don't fit perfectly, but none are so outlandish as to break the theory. It is at least as well supported as Newton's theories, Einstein's theories, etc. It is as close to proven as anything gets in science.

Science is about creating a theory and proving it wrong.

You cannot disprove religion, but you can disprove science.

You cannot prove religion, and you cannot prove science.

This is why science is superior, but it does not mean it is correct.

[araby]

hehe...arlos I got a little crunk with my coffee this morning! You're right...it's not a conspiracy, and I never thought there was one, but I do think there are explanations for things.

on a side note, I do forget that South Carolina is an open primary.

SENDING OUT JUJU FOR RON PAUL TONIGHT!!!

[Naethyn]

"Religion itself is just another scientific theory" ... My gods, that is in the top 5 of the stupidest things ever posted to NT in its entire history. Congrats, you just made an exclusive list.

"A universe with a God would like quite different from a universe without one. A physics, a biology where there is a God is bound to look different. So the most basic claims of religion are scientific. Religion is a scientific theory. "

http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/Wor ... otes.shtml

[Martrae]

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – The Ron Paul 2008 presidential campaign praises the New Hampshire Republican Party’s decision to pull its sponsorship of the Fox News forum in protest of Fox’s decision to exclude Congressman Ron Paul.

“The New Hampshire Republican Party did the right thing by pulling its sponsorship for Fox’s candidate forum,” said Ron Paul 2008 spokesman Jesse Benton. “Fox News’ decision to exclude Congressman Paul is unfair, but it won’t stop Dr. Paul’s message of freedom, peace and prosperity from resonating with the people of New Hampshire.”

Today, New Hampshire Republican Party Chairman Fergus Cullen released the following statement regarding Sunday’s Republican forum on FOX:

“The first-in-the-nation New Hampshire primary serves a national purpose by giving all candidates an equal opportunity on a level playing field. Only in New Hampshire do lesser known, lesser funded underdogs have a fighting chance to establish themselves as national figures. Consistent with that tradition, we believe all recognized major candidates should have an equal opportunity to participate in pre-primary debates and forums.

“This principle applies to tonight’s debates on ABC as well as Sunday’s planned forum on FOX. The New Hampshire Republican Party believes Congressmen Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter should be included in the FOX forum on Sunday evening. Our mutual efforts to resolve this difference have failed.

“While we understand that FOX News continues to move forward it is with regret, the New Hampshire Republican Party hereby withdraws as a partner in this forum.”

[Gypsiyee]

Well isn't that just fancy

[araby]

excellent!

[Arlos]

It's certainly the right move by the NH GOP organization to take. Makes you wonder even more why the national GOP isn't doing anything about it. Honestly, this just will probably act as further evidence that the mainline GOP central leadership can't stand and is terrified of Paul, and is using their pull with FOX to block his access to the debate. Not good.

-Arlos

[araby]

It certainly raises eyebrows and I'll be interested to see how this plays out. I don't think it looks good on FOX but I'm not sure I'd say the national GOP has any pull with FOX...but I suppose it's possible, I mean hell, we can't get those guys in the FOX media to mention his name or let anyone ELSE mention his name, for that matter. I wonder if it has more to do with FOX than the national GOP...but again you're right, why not doing anything?

I know that because he ran as a Libertarian they want to use that as a way to get out in front of him..which isn't necessary seeing as how he runs a very well put together Republican campaign right now, whether they like it or not.

I thought he did well tonight. I thought Thompson and McCain dug themselves holes and Romney did very well...Huckabee still gives me the creeps. I don't think he is going to be able to pull any votes beyond evangelical Christians...maybe a few but not like we saw in Iowa, not across the board. It's still so open..

[Gypsiyee]

I was just talking about this earlier and you know what the funny thing is about the whole thing.. by Fox doing this, they're really only helping Paul in the end by giving him free publicity.

Let them keep doing negative things like this to bring out true colors, it'll only help in the end really.

[araby]

I thought the same thing, Ash. Figured, "go ahead, give our man some more publicity, we'll take it" cause he wasn't getting it before..that's for sure.

I'm not even working as hard as some supporters out there, but I am working and I actually spent the time to email each and every one of those yahoos at FOX. There are absolutely other people out there who did the same thing and all it takes is one person to want change to get it.