SC Dem debate last night

[Lyion]

[Zanchief]

Government is the tool by which industry can influence the public. what you are not considering is the power of a free market. They can influence all they want. If no one buys their product i guarentee you the problem will resolve itself.

I'll never understand why you have more faith in greedy corporations than you do the government.

[Gypsiyee]

because in the US, the government is a greedy corporation

[Martrae]

LOL...you think the government isn't a greedy corporation? It's the greediest one of all. At least a regular corporation can't skim a percentage of your wages right off the top.

[Zanchief]

LOL...you think the government isn't a greedy corporation? It's the greediest one of all. At least a regular corporation can't skim a percentage of your wages right off the top.

God you guys are funny. You act like taxes are stealing. The money goes right back to you, unless you have people make back door deals with....CORPORATIONS to take that money away. In every instance of fraudulent government activity you have a corporation capitalizing, and yet these are the people you think should be running things? The government is the only body that actual has your best interest at heart and the fact that you can't understand that is the very reason it's failing you.

This evil government mentality in the US is just plain ridiculous, especially when you consider the alternative.

[Tossica]

LOL...you think the government isn't a greedy corporation? It's the greediest one of all. At least a regular corporation can't skim a percentage of your wages right off the top.

Oh they can't huh? Tell that to the fucking insurance companies. Not only are we paying ridiculous amounts in taxes we also get to pay ridiculous amounts in insurance premiums which our TAX DOLLARS SHOULD BE COVERING.

[Lyion]

God you guys are funny. You act like taxes are stealing. The money goes right back to you, unless you have people make back door deals with....CORPORATIONS to take that money away. In every instance of fraudulent government activity you have a corporation capitalizing, and yet these are the people you think should be running things? The government is the only body that actual has your best interest at heart and the fact that you can't understand that is the very reason it's failing you.

This evil government mentality in the US is just plain ridiculous, especially when you consider the alternative.

Do you truly think tax revenues go right back to the people taxed?

I guess you don't have earmarks, pork, and bureaucracy in Canada. That's the nature of democratic run government programs, period, though, so I'm not sure how.

Here corporations <generally> are required to be profitable and work in a manner of supply and demand, that allows for competition and better results for the end consumer. Government run functions are always slow, methodical, not competitive so generally inferior, and wasteful in time and money.

The rate of return on services and goods from the government via taxes received is woeful, and why many of us prefer limited government not involved in things it makes no sense for them to be involved in.

The problem is when government impedes competition via poor legisatlion, or over litigation which we have a bigger problem with in America.

[Tikker]

and yet our healthcare, broadband penetration and public transportation wtfpwn yours


weird

[Zanchief]

That doesn't make them evil, it makes them stupid. There's a difference. This idea that the government is a single entity that has as its single goal to make itself larger and steal your money to fund itself is just insane conspiracy theory. If corporations were running things you'd be taking it in the ass every chance they get. Where does this empathy come from when corporate greed is a mandate for the position?

Big companies would do anything to get your money. They will bend the law in the most despicably immoral way to get what they want. The government has no such agenda. They're just a little slow at their job. Those tax dollars that are "wasted" on the government’s bureaucracy is still providing employment for people after all, so the money isn't disappearing.

[Zanchief]

The problem is when government impedes competition via poor legisatlion, or over litigation which we have a bigger problem with in America.

So you believe in a free market where the government has no hand in dealing with business? If they want to charge 0.10$ an hour wage why should anyone try and help the public? Why should anyone tell a factory that their emissions are too high? Who cares if things get polluted, it's not good business to worry about it.

I suppose it’s not efficient to worry about “people”. Worrying about money is so much easier.

[Lyion]

Not at all.

Having rules for business, and running one are vastly different.

The problem is the government tends to do more of the latter, and less of the former.

and yet our healthcare, broadband penetration and public transportation wtfpwn yours

Two completely different governments and countries, also.

Healthcare, Broadband, and gas prices are vastly superior in Saudi Arabia to America. In comparison to Canada, too.

[Martrae]

LOL...you think the government isn't a greedy corporation? It's the greediest one of all. At least a regular corporation can't skim a percentage of your wages right off the top.

Oh they can't huh? Tell that to the fucking insurance companies. Not only are we paying ridiculous amounts in taxes we also get to pay ridiculous amounts in insurance premiums which our TAX DOLLARS SHOULD BE COVERING.

You CAN opt out of insurance....you CAN'T opt out of taxes.

It may not be wise....but you CAN do it.

[Tikker]

You CAN opt out of insurance....you CAN'T opt out of taxes.

you can opt out of taxes here

if your charitable donations are equivalent to income tax, you pay 0 income tax
this is a way of ensuring your "taxes" are spent where you want them spent

[Zanchief]

You CAN opt out of insurance....you CAN'T opt out of taxes.

It may not be wise....but you CAN do it.

So you're an anarchist now?

[Lyion]

You CAN opt out of insurance....you CAN'T opt out of taxes.

you can opt out of taxes here

if your charitable donations are equivalent to income tax, you pay 0 income tax
this is a way of ensuring your "taxes" are spent where you want them spent

Yet Canada still gives fuck all in charitable donations compared to America.

Surprising.

[Evermore]

The problem is when government impedes competition via poor legisatlion, or over litigation which we have a bigger problem with in America.

So you believe in a free market where the government has no hand in dealing with business? If they want to charge 0.10$ an hour wage why should anyone try and help the public? Why should anyone tell a factory that their emissions are too high? Who cares if things get polluted, it's not good business to worry about it.

I suppose it’s not efficient to worry about “people”. Worrying about money is so much easier.

How the fuck did you get so clueless?

lets see, a company pays .10c an hr wage. they dont get anyone applying for jobs because they cannot earn a living. Company goes out of business.

Company A makes a decient widget but its a bit pricey. Company B makes a better widget for the same or less cost to the public. they happen to be a foreign company, and import. no one is buying company A's widget, this means they better improve quality and fix the price or they go out of business.

Your acceptable Scenaro, Government steps in and price controls widgets and puts huge tax on company b's product. there by allowing the inferior product to remain inferior an attempting to force the public to buy an inferior product. this is acceptable to you.

[Evermore]

Government is the tool by which industry can influence the public. what you are not considering is the power of a free market. They can influence all they want. If no one buys their product i guarentee you the problem will resolve itself.

I'll never understand why you have more faith in greedy corporations than you do the government.

this is because you refuse to accept the truth of the matter and seemingly you are very good at accepting what those in power want you to believe.

I will ask you again this is from a prior thread too you never bothered to answer.

Why would anyone trust a organization that has repeatedly proven the are liers, thieves and murders and have done so for at LEAST 60 years? and to be clear, I never said anywere i have more faith in corporations.


LEt me say this so you can under stand


Baaaaa Baaaaa Baaaaa

.

[Zanchief]

Your acceptable Scenaro, Government steps in and price controls widgets and puts huge tax on company b's product. there by allowing the inferior product to remain inferior an attempting to force the public to buy an inferior product. this is acceptable to you.

See but that's not what they would do because they're trying to help you, not hurt you. That's what you don't understand. If I thought like you that the government was taking my money, then using it to make things worse for me than I'd probably be deluded and crazy like you are, but that just isn't the case. If company A was making widgets out of nuclear waste then the government stopped them (who else would in your free market utopia?), thus cutting into their profits and letting another company compete, that isn't really the same.

[Zanchief]

Why would anyone trust a organization that has repeatedly proven the are liers, thieves and murders and have done so for at LEAST 60 years? and to be clear, I never said anywere i have more faith in corporations.

Then grab your gun and march right on down to the white house and make your stand. Then at least we won't have to listen to your insane anti-government rants all the time.

[Martrae]

See but that's not what they would do because they're trying to help you, not hurt you.

They've unfortunately taken over the role of overprotective parents. We've turned into a nation of babies from the overcoddling.

[Evermore]

Your acceptable Scenaro, Government steps in and price controls widgets and puts huge tax on company b's product. there by allowing the inferior product to remain inferior an attempting to force the public to buy an inferior product. this is acceptable to you.

See but that's not what they would do because they're trying to help you, not hurt you. That's what you don't understand. If I thought like you that the government was taking my money, then using it to make things worse for me than I'd probably be deluded and crazy like you are, but that just isn't the case. If company A was making widgets out of nuclear waste then the government stopped them (who else would in your free market utopia?), thus cutting into their profits and letting another company compete, that isn't really the same.

so you consider taking tax money and basically tossing it down the shitter trying to help me?

Stay in canada.

[Evermore]

Why would anyone trust a organization that has repeatedly proven the are liers, thieves and murders and have done so for at LEAST 60 years? and to be clear, I never said anywere i have more faith in corporations.

Then grab your gun and march right on down to the white house and make your stand. Then at least we won't have to listen to your insane anti-government rants all the time.

no more then your sheepish follow the masses bullshit rhetoric you keep spewing from the relative safety of another country.

See here when we dont agree with whats comming out of the white house we vote them out. Just stay on your stupid soap box and keep preaching this "tow the line the government knows what good for you better then you do" idiotic and childish horseshit all over the place. it's way easy for you to be a backseat driver. especially from another car.

I bet you would have supported Lenin or Stalin or Hitler for that matter.

[Zanchief]

See but that's not what they would do because they're trying to help you, not hurt you.

They've unfortunately taken over the role of overprotective parents. We've turned into a nation of babies from the overcoddling.

That may be so, but the answer isn't to take the parents away completely, even if there are some ungrateful kids out there.

[Evermore]

See but that's not what they would do because they're trying to help you, not hurt you.

They've unfortunately taken over the role of overprotective parents. We've turned into a nation of babies from the overcoddling.

That may be so, but the answer isn't to take the parents away completely, even if there are some ungrateful kids out there.

no the answer is to put them back in their place. as they are not the parents, they are trying to act in this way.

[Gypsiyee]

Those tax dollars that are "wasted" on the government’s bureaucracy is still providing employment for people after all, so the money isn't disappearing.

Just wanted to comment on this since I have firsthand experience here

Here is what I've learned working on base. Tax dollars pay high wages, 2+ months of vacation, fantastic sick leave, amazing thrift savings plans, etc for employees with absolutely no work ethic who would never survive in the real world. In the 200 people I've dealt with consistently since I got a job here, about 90% of those people are completely worthless slobs who do absolutely no work and scream grievance every time they don't get their way.

As a contractor, I don't have this option and that's perfectly fine. Let me give you an example - person A cusses out his boss and gets in confrontation with co-worker. In order to reprimand person A, we now have to bring in at least 20 other people to research the situation and carefully document everything that happened. we also have to bring the union in to ensure fair treatment of person A. This is person A's 10th incident in 5 years. The first 3 times, all that's offered is help for anger issues and/or substance problems (while on the clock.) The next 3, suspension with pay. You got it, paid vacation for acting out. The next 4, minor suspensions without pay, all three of which the person files a grievance against his boss and has his boss investigated.

For all intents and purposes, this employee is notorious for sleeping on the job, watching TV rather than working, disappearing off site with no explanation, coming in late, leaving early, working on aircraft while under the influence, causing non-stop issues overall, with nothing worthwhile to contribute. However, he is untouchable. You cannot reprimand him without spending thousands upon thousands of government dollars, and you cannot fire him without multiple reprimands. You cannot fire him without a court case due to the unions, another multiple thousands of dollars for the court case to happen. In the case that you do finally fire him, he takes you to court for suffering and is rewarded an early retirement package that tax dollars pay for.

In the ~7 months I have been here, I have seen at least 3 cases similar to this. More often than not, supervisors don't bother to go through the precedings because it's simply not worth it. This isn't a great alternative either, because you're still paying for some shlub who doesn't do squat. Not to mention the 1k+ of awards that is still sourced to him throughout the year because awards are given as a one size fits all so as not to offend or cause a grievance.

Tell me our tax dollars aren't wasted. And this is only one example. I can give you 20.