thoroughly enjoyable debate

[Tossica]

Small business is generally less than 100 employees, at least in the US.

That's not what I consider I small business but we'll go with it. If a small business has a strong business plan, they will succeed even if they have to pay taxes, if they don't they will fail.

[Lyion]

Raising taxes on small business hurts their ability to grow and has historically put a damper on economic growth.

I agree a strong business plan is good for small business, but that has FUCK ALL to do with the fact if they are just making it, more fucking taxes will fucking put them out of fucking business which is the fucking real stupid fucking bullshit in this thread.

[Zanchief]

I think we broke Lyion.

[Martrae]

It's the number they use at the small business admin to qualify as a small business. It's also the number used when you apply for small business loans.

Somehow it's just as easy to make a profit (which is the point of being in business) with a high tax burden as long as the business plan is strong? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Sure a strong bp will make your company a success, but the taxes you pay play a big part in how quickly and by how big a margin you are successful. It can make the difference in hiring 2 new people or 4. It affects the cost of the items you use or resell because THOSE companies are passing along the excess tax burden to you. It forces you to raise prices above your competitors or make slimmer profits.

[Evermore]

while a strong business plan is definately a requirement, there is much more to making a business successful. Bad management, high taxes market changes etc can all attribute to killing a business of any kind.

[Lyion]

No, I was just responding to Toss's 'BS' campaign.

For some reason your post made me think of this commercial, Zan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdF1QHQJpQs

[Tikker]

I never said Canada's valuation had any bearing on the economy; I mentioned it because it gives a nod to what I'm saying about the economy and how it's not doing as hot as seems to be the idea here. The fact that Canada's dollar surpassed ours certainly makes me question what we're doing wrong when we're meant to be a financial superpower

that's a stupid fucking statement(and really condescending too), and really kinda shows that you don't actually know what you're talking about

Here's maybe a bit of a hint as to why our dollar is strong right now:


Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2006
Rank Country Proved reserves(billion barrels)

1. Saudi Arabia 264.3
2. Canada 178.8
3. Iran 132.5
4. Iraq 115.0
5. Kuwait 101.5

11. United States 21.4


You're also needing to import 12.2 Million barrels of oil PER DAY just to feed your daily consumption (which is 3 times higher than the #2 consumer, china)

[Martrae]

Quit arguing here Tikker and make your Survivor pick already :P

[Tossica]

My point is, if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, give decent benefits and pay your taxes, maybe you shouldn't be in business. It's unfair to push the tax burden on to the middle class while giving tax "breaks" to profit based companies and their owners.

[Martrae]

Just who do you think employs the middle class?

As more and more companies as faced with high taxes they either leave the country or close their doors. Pretty soon all we're going to have is generic Big Box companies that are based offshore to buy from/work for. You think they pay a 'living wage' and 'decent benefits'?

The tax burden needs to be REDUCED on everyone...not just shunted to whichever segment the politicians can turn into the red-headed stepchild this election.

[Gypsiyee]

I never said Canada's valuation had any bearing on the economy; I mentioned it because it gives a nod to what I'm saying about the economy and how it's not doing as hot as seems to be the idea here. The fact that Canada's dollar surpassed ours certainly makes me question what we're doing wrong when we're meant to be a financial superpower

that's a stupid fucking statement(and really condescending too), and really kinda shows that you don't actually know what you're talking about

Here's maybe a bit of a hint as to why our dollar is strong right now:


Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2006
Rank Country Proved reserves(billion barrels)

1. Saudi Arabia 264.3
2. Canada 178.8
3. Iran 132.5
4. Iraq 115.0
5. Kuwait 101.5

11. United States 21.4


You're also needing to import 12.2 Million barrels of oil PER DAY just to feed your daily consumption (which is 3 times higher than the #2 consumer, china)

Oh for pete's sake Tikk, where did I knock Canada at all there? I even said I wasn't using the right wording lest it come across wrong, it was a point to say that our dollar losing ground is a sign of us doing poorly. I haven't the slightest idea how that was misconstrued into me saying that we're better than anyone (referring to it being condescending)

Jesus christ, I don't know how you took that in such an extreme manner when I even said I couldn't find the words for what I was saying. That was like a complete 180 spin on what I was trying to say.

[Tossica]

Just who do you think employs the middle class?

As more and more companies as faced with high taxes they either leave the country or close their doors. Pretty soon all we're going to have is generic Big Box companies that are based offshore to buy from/work for. You think they pay a 'living wage' and 'decent benefits'?

The tax burden needs to be REDUCED on everyone...not just shunted to whichever segment the politicians can turn into the red-headed stepchild this election.

I'm not arguing that taxes need to be raised but the whole argument that the government is what makes small businesses go under is bullshit. Taxes are just another expense with running a business, either you can pay your bills or you can't. There are some small businesses that can afford the burden and some that can't. Maybe the small business owner might have to start looking at the 3000 sq ft suburban home as opposed to the 6500 sq ft lake home in order to make ends meet but business goes on as long as they have a strong plan in place and are smart with their spending.

Putting the tax money we already collect towards things that benefit EVERYONE in the country would do more to take the burden off of small businesses than the current tax breaks give. If my company didn't have to pay for health care, insurance, and all that other bullshit, they'd be way ahead even if the current tax breaks were reversed.

[Martrae]

Seriously, go talk to your boss about how much easier it's gotten since the cuts went into place and what will change if they're replaced.

[Tossica]

You guys crack me up, seriously. It's NOT the governments job to "help" the average citizen with a basic safety net, tax breaks, subsidized health care and education benefits but it IS their job to make sure that business owners and stock holders are getting rich? That's some seriously fucked up logic.

[Evermore]

I never said Canada's valuation had any bearing on the economy; I mentioned it because it gives a nod to what I'm saying about the economy and how it's not doing as hot as seems to be the idea here. The fact that Canada's dollar surpassed ours certainly makes me question what we're doing wrong when we're meant to be a financial superpower

that's a stupid fucking statement(and really condescending too), and really kinda shows that you don't actually know what you're talking about

Here's maybe a bit of a hint as to why our dollar is strong right now:


Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2006
Rank Country Proved reserves(billion barrels)

1. Saudi Arabia 264.3
2. Canada 178.8
3. Iran 132.5
4. Iraq 115.0
5. Kuwait 101.5

11. United States 21.4


You're also needing to import 12.2 Million barrels of oil PER DAY just to feed your daily consumption (which is 3 times higher than the #2 consumer, china)

Canada is a good investment right now and this is only part of the reason why. read this

tho tikk i thought she was just making a comparison...

[Martrae]

No, it's in the economy's best interest to keep small businesses running.

It's the government's job to keep their hands off and let that happen, along with keeping their hands off any number of other things they have no business being part of.

[Gypsiyee]

interesting read, and yes.. I was ><

[Evermore]

No, it's in the economy's best interest to keep small businesses running.

It's the government's job to keep their hands off and let that happen, along with keeping their hands off any number of other things they have no business being part of.

here here

[Tikker]

interesting read, and yes.. I was ><

your post came across as "we're doing so fucking shitty even Canada is doing better than us now"

which is where the condescending comment came from

[Evermore]

Speaking of the US doing shitty...

[Evermore]

Here's maybe a bit of a hint as to why our dollar is strong right now:


Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2006
Rank Country Proved reserves(billion barrels)

1. Saudi Arabia 264.3
2. Canada 178.8
3. Iran 132.5
4. Iraq 115.0
5. Kuwait 101.5

11. United States 21.4

suprised Russa's reserves arent listed here...

[Tossica]

Seriously, go talk to your boss about how much easier it's gotten since the cuts went into place and what will change if they're replaced.

What the fuck do you THINK they are going to say? They are typical Republican small business owners. If they could possibly pay me less, they would. If they thought they could keep me here without paying for my health insurance they would, if they thought I'd stick around with less vacation, etc, they'd not give it to me.

What would change if the laws were replaced is that they would only take 2 trips to Vegas each year instead of 3 and they might not be able to afford the latest addition on their house and the 4 new snowmobiles they have their eye on but do you honestly think they'll admit to that?

[Martrae]

You really have no idea about how business finances work, do you?

[Tikker]

8. Russia 60.0

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html was the site I found to pull the data from

[Gypsiyee]

interesting read, and yes.. I was ><

your post came across as "we're doing so fucking shitty even Canada is doing better than us now"

which is where the condescending comment came from

That's why I specifically said I wasn't wording it properly.. that's not how I meant it at all. I meant it more like 'hey, we're doing shitty. look how well other people are doing, that's not us.'

You'll never hear me knock Canada, not today, not last year, not next year - never have, never will. I heart Canada.