I just don't understand some people

[Harrison]

I have surrounded myself with better people. I don't associate with nearly anyone I did previously and life has been immensely better.

I gave up on everyone else entirely because I have no space left in my heart for people who don't have space for anyone but themselves in theirs. Drugs are a choice, and if I can make the right one, so can they.

I'm in a good place in life right now and I thank that almost entirely upon the fact I've finally thrown out all the trash bringing me down.

I'm angry simply because people I've known since birth aren't who I remember now. It's not fucking easy to throw away all of your friends since childhood to better yourself.

[Harrison]

That said....

I used to be the most supportive person in the world in that respect. I will sacrifice of myself nearly everything if I think it will help someone I love.

My ex called me one time saying she was freaking out and needed me, I ran the 7 miles to her house that night the second I hung up. (I couldn't drive because I had been drinking. I don't drink and drive and never will.) Turns out the fucking whore was just in withdrawals because she couldn't afford more heroin. (She didn't tell me this. I was under the impression she was just really, really sick.) I was working three jobs and I didn't sleep that night to help her through that under false pretenses.

I can't do that anymore. I am looking after myself now.

You can say what you want of that. I have wasted too much of my life trying to help people that don't deserve that effort and it's about fucking time I take time to better myself.

I of course still have friends, family, etc. I care for and would take a bullet for but that circle is significantly smaller these days. Life is great these days and I intend to keep this fucking gravy train on track until I die.

[brinstar]

I apologize Brin. I didn't mean any disrespect to you and yours.

The fact your father overcame addiction and turned out great isn't something I hear often.

I have no room left in my life for faith in addicts, and I don't know if this will ever change.

To this day if I ever saw a number of people I haven't seen in 2+years I would punch them in the face for the pain they've caused. Fuck them and anyone who tries to defend their "unfortunate" position. They chose their path and they have to live with it.

it's cool man

my point was that i (and i am by no means alone) see addiction as a disease. starting drugs IS a choice-- but for some people, stopping them ISN'T. my dad became a morphine (pharmaceutical, not street) addict because of an injury, and he came to rely on it. fortunately, thanks to family and health care professionals not giving up on him, he was able to wean his way from morphine to codeine, and then from codeine to over-the-counter painkillers. now he's a proud father and a good man and he owns his own business.

but that's beside the point: people are people, they're flawed, they make dumb decisions all the time. Joe Crackhead made a reprehensible decision when he decided to smoke crack and ruin his future, sure-- i won't disagree with that-- but there's more to it than that. Joe simply cannot make himself stop. it's not weakness, nor is it a question of willpower, it's a disease. it's as easy to stop having a catastrophic methamphetamine addiction as it is easy to stop having lupus or leukemia. it changes people, it turns them against their friends, it ruins their lives. these things are all true. but through treatment and compassionate support, they CAN be people again. in fact, my job is actually a part of the process.

i have been at this job for close to 18 months, and even in that short time i have seen some amazing things happen to people that everyone else had given up on. over the course of our program i have seen paranoia, anger, dishonesty, and hostility crumble and give way to kindness, honesty, and soundness of mind. i have seen families reunited, careers restarted, and goals achieved, and i have seen entire personalities blossom forth from previously barren soil.

i won't pretend to know the scope of reasons behind your disdain of addicts, and i won't expect you to change your opinion about them, but that's where i'm coming from.

[Harrison]

I wish I could have seen such redemption in my lifetime. So far I am left with my deep hatred for them, for good reasons.

[Martrae]

Kahar used to be hooked on coke. He's been clean since 1992 or 1994. He's one of the most anti-drug people you can find now.

Now if I could only get him to be as anti-cigarette....

[Tossica]

Not that I'm doubting Kahar had a problem with drugs but the term "hooked on" always makes me cringe a bit as I've heard it used over and over again throughout the years to describe even the most casual recreational drug use. In my mind a drug addict is someone who cannot function normally on a day to day basis without whatever drug they are addicted to. Their life revolves around the substance, how much they have, who has what and how much, where to get more, where to get money to get more, what would happen if the supply ran out, etc. Meth/amphetamines, cocaine, opiates, prescription drugs and alcohol are the substances I consider "addictive" and the results of those addictions are generally devastating. If Kahar was truly a cocaine addict, I applaud his recovery and his ability to get his life back on track and make positive choices in his life as I know first hand how difficult it can be.

Addiction has taken more than a handful of my closest friends over the years including my first love, the "one", the girl that I just knew I would eventually work it out with and grow old with. Watching her crash and burn was one of the most heartbreaking things in my life. She died about 8 years ago on the 3rd day of a massive binge. She had been clean for 2 years and broke down one fatal weekend. The same holds true for my best friend throughout childhood and early adulthood. He eventually took his own life in 1996 after battling with a heroin addiction his entire adult life. He had been clean for a year when one weekend he "relapsed", broke in to a pharmacy and was caught 30 minutes later by the police. The embarrassment to his family and the realization of what he had finally become was too much for him to take so he left a note and jumped to his death from a bridge. We grew up together and he was like a brother to me. Watching him turn from the most hilarious, brilliant, talented, charismatic guy I knew to a desperate, lieing, stealing shell of a human being was again, almost unbearable. I have a many more similar stories with equally tragic endings but the thing that these two people have in common is a verifiable history of child abuse. Abuse may be involved in the lives of my other dead friends but they didn't leave any evidence other than their shattered lives. It was not necessarily the drugs themselves that wore them down, it was the demons they lived with every day that ate them alive from the inside out.

Abusing drugs to the point of no return is a choice they made but the reason for the need to self medicate was something beyond their control. I have become very callous over the years and find it easy to be hateful towards addicts and have had to learn to turn my back on friends at some point in order to save my sanity but I have also had to forgive them and realize that I can't possibly know all the reasons why they made the decisions they did. People that are in pain often make bad decisions in the process of trying to make the pain go away. Some of these people can be helped if they seek other means of relieving the pain or recognize that they have lost control early enough. Others are destined to burn out and leave a trail of pain and suffering for the ones that love them as they watch them destroy themselves. I've accepted that addiction is part of the human experience and has been around for as long as civilization has existed and will continue to be here until all "bad things" are erased from the humanity. It's not the drugs that are the problem, it's the fact that people do horrible things to other people that is the problem.

People hurt and find ways to make the pain go away.

[Martrae]

In my mind a drug addict is someone who cannot function normally on a day to day basis without whatever drug they are addicted to. Their life revolves around the substance, how much they have, who has what and how much, where to get more, where to get money to get more, what would happen if the supply ran out, etc.

According to him, that was how he was. Fortunately, he was close to several SEAL team members that saw how he was and liked him enough to help him get over it. He says they were harsh...but effective.

[Gaazy]

Theres an old guy who lives down the street from me who broke his back in the coal mines years and years ago. The docs just kept givin him more and more pills and shit and now hes poppin like 200+ mg of oxycontin a day. Poor guy is so fucked up he cant even function. His wife told me if he doesnt take the pills, he cant even move because of the back pain, but if he doesnt take the pills, he goes into life threatening withdrawels. Sad

[araby]

That's really sad. He'd benefit from some good physical therapy along with mental therapy but at this point in his life, it probably seem moot to go for it, especially if his wife doesn't think he should stop taking them.

the man I helped had every single family member give up on him and say, "god just let him drink it's who he is." His girlfriend signed him out of the hospital when he went into detox and drove him home to get a beer.

[Gaazy]

I think its safe to say he's tried every therapy in existance pretty much. The accident was caused because of the mine operators trying to cover up a roof problem, so he got a HUGE, and I mean HUGE multi million super pay out from CONSOL Energy (huge, rich company). The fall messed up so much its just never healed right and messed up everything for life. He's been to Duke, Wake Forest, and a couple other major University hospitals over the last 15 years (I believe its been about that), and did up until like 2 years ago when he finally gave up. If you could just see this guy just walkin out to get the mail in the morning you can just tell he is wanting to die wih every step

[Lyion]

I've accepted that addiction is part of the human experience and has been around for as long as civilization has existed and will continue to be here until all "bad things" are erased from the humanity. It's not the drugs that are the problem, it's the fact that people do horrible things to other people that is the problem.

People hurt and find ways to make the pain go away.

Sounds like an excuse. Life is pain. Anyone who tells you different is selling something. Drugs are an escape, like other things. Most people do quite well without drugs, regardless of the pain.

Some people can be casual, but everyone using drugs are wrong since they're both illegal, harmful, and addictive. Everyone using them can become an addict, especially the stronger and more easily addictive stuff.

Growing in up in Southern Cal, I've dealt with quite a few friends who were addicts, and it is most certainly the drugs. Note, by drugs I don't mean weed. It's easy to become hooked and have your life revolve around it, even if you aren't homeless on the street and destitute.

The bottom line is, just like those idiots who smoke around their kids, drugs are a choice with repercussions. If you want to do something illegal with heavy addiction potential, that sets a horrid example for ones kids, and at a minimum fries brain cells then that is your decision, but don't make some cop out bullshit excuse.

This doesn't correlate to poor people growing up on Indian reservations with genetic tendencies for alcoholism in a community that drinks heavily. Even most of them are smart enough not to do the hard drugs.

[Tossica]

I've accepted that addiction is part of the human experience and has been around for as long as civilization has existed and will continue to be here until all "bad things" are erased from the humanity. It's not the drugs that are the problem, it's the fact that people do horrible things to other people that is the problem.

People hurt and find ways to make the pain go away.

Sounds like an excuse. Life is pain. Anyone who tells you different is selling something. Drugs are an escape, like other things. Most people do quite well without drugs, regardless of the pain.

Some people can be casual, but everyone using drugs are wrong since they're both illegal, harmful, and addictive. Everyone using them can become an addict, especially the stronger and more easily addictive stuff.

Growing in up in Southern Cal, I've dealt with quite a few friends who were addicts, and it is most certainly the drugs. Note, by drugs I don't mean weed. It's easy to become hooked and have your life revolve around it, even if you aren't homeless on the street and destitute.

The bottom line is, just like those idiots who smoke around their kids, drugs are a choice with repercussions. If you want to do something illegal with heavy addiction potential, that sets a horrid example for ones kids, and at a minimum fries brain cells then that is your decision, but don't make some cop out bullshit excuse.

This doesn't correlate to poor people growing up on Indian reservations with genetic tendencies for alcoholism in a community that drinks heavily. Even most of them are smart enough not to do the hard drugs.

Please spare us all your smug, ignorant opinion on this issue in the future. Thanks.

[Evermore]

There is a point where the "decision" to do drugs morphs into a necessity to do drugs.

[Gaazy]

Theres a little girl on the ski team I coach who's mom smokes like a freight train CONSTANTLY. Fucking pisses me off too see this little 12 year old climb out of the car before a race along with the cloud of smoke because her loser trust fund baby mommy cant stop smoking for an hours drive for her daughters health. She even told me a while back that her mom gets cold easy, so she wont even CRACK the fucking window as she smokes in the car. Just lets it cloud up the whoooole drive

[Evermore]

cigs Gaazy?

[Gaazy]

yeah cigs, not pot or id have to say something. Still yet, forcing a 12 year old to sit through that for a whole drive? Horseshit

[Evermore]

agreed. Cigs are gross.

[Lyion]

It's not the drugs that are the problem, it's the fact that people do horrible things to other people that is the problem.

People hurt and find ways to make the pain go away.

Sounds like an excuse. Life is pain. Anyone who tells you different is selling something. Drugs are an escape, like other things. Most people do quite well without drugs, regardless of the pain.

Some people can be casual, but everyone using drugs are wrong since they're both illegal, harmful, and addictive. Everyone using them can become an addict, especially the stronger and more easily addictive stuff.

Growing in up in Southern Cal, I've dealt with quite a few friends who were addicts, and it is most certainly the drugs. Note, by drugs I don't mean weed. It's easy to become hooked and have your life revolve around it, even if you aren't homeless on the street and destitute.

The bottom line is, just like those idiots who smoke around their kids, drugs are a choice with repercussions. If you want to do something illegal with heavy addiction potential, that sets a horrid example for ones kids, and at a minimum fries brain cells then that is your decision, but don't make some cop out bullshit excuse.

This doesn't correlate to poor people growing up on Indian reservations with genetic tendencies for alcoholism in a community that drinks heavily. Even most of them are smart enough not to do the hard drugs.

Please spare us all your smug, ignorant opinion on this issue in the future. Thanks.

Sorry, boss. I've had too much pain to listen to some angst ridden denier who wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the forehead.

Statistically, the casual drug user (not occasional weed, mind you) will die young. Statistically, they also pass on their habits to their children. It's even more sad when their children die even younger.

They aren't hurting me or anyone else commenting, but are essentially telling their children to fuck off and die, if they are lucky enough not to kill themselves, leaving their kids without a parent and a friend.

See the truth most of us figured out as a teenager, that your drug use is part of the bad things and will potentially fuck up your kids.

[Martrae]

My kids love to watch the First 48 with us. They've gotten to the point where they listen to the circumstances for a couple minutes and then go 'drugs are what got them killed' since 90% of the deaths are drug related. I figure it's a good object lesson for them.

[Tossica]

No really Lyion, spare me the lecture.

My whole point was that as much as I'd like to dismiss all the addicts as "weak" and use tough comic book one liners like "life is pain", I can't because I can't possibly know what circumstances lead them to the situation they are in now. Healthy, emotionally sound people do not generally just decide one day to throw their lives away and become junkies. Way to miss my point though and get up on your soap box and preach like a pompous ass. Make sure to tell every parent you encounter that reaches in to the medicine cabinet for a pain killer or their daily prozac or in the fridge for a couple cold ones just how weak they are for not dealing with the "pain" that is life and for killing their kids. I'm sure they'd appreciated your feedback.

[Tikker]

People who are drinking daily, or on prozac are junkies too

they just somehow escape the moniker

[Tossica]

People who are drinking daily, or on prozac are junkies too

they just somehow escape the moniker

Agreed.

[Lyion]

I quoted exactly what you said, and why I feel it's wrong.

It's not a lecture, it's experience. I grew up in San Diego. I went to college in L.A.. I've been through this over and over with people taking the standpoint that drugs aren't the problem are not looking at the facts. I dealt with it often, and in my own family.

I also never said they were weak. I never said they do not deserve compassion. Quite the contrary. What I said and continue to say is it's a choice based on ignorance due to enablers like yourself. People choose to start smoking, knowing it fucks up their kids/self. People choose to start doing heroin, despite an avalanche of information regarding how idiotic it is. Addicts are not born, they are made. Anyone can be a drug addict. Anyone.

What they don't need is enabling and excuses for choices, which leads more people down the path to being an addict. The world doesn't make heroin addicts, enabling does.

I agree someone hooked to prescription medicine is also in the same boat. Somewhat taking oxycotin due to a back injury who gets hooked needed that to overcome real pain, not some delusional escape due to idiocy and a lack of glaring facts in regard to ones choices. That most certainly is not an apples to apples comparison.

Now, you can continue to say drugs are not bad, and anyone with an ounce of common sense should disagree with that premise.

[Gaazy]

Its unreal ho wmuch healthier I feel too after I left college, goin from drinkin 6 nights a week to maybe once or twice a month, at most anymore. Just feels so good to get up nice and early, take a nice shower, and head to work not worrying about looking hungover to high shit

[Tikker]

it's kinda funny watching people who were hard core party people come to the realization that they can make something of themselves by growing up, and not doing stupid shit all the time

the best part is when they realize that they used to look down on people for not partying, and those people are now their bosses~