Romney OUT

[Naethyn]

Lyion please list the events that must occur before we can make a 100% troop withdrawal from Iraq.

A. Saddam loses power.

B. Iraqi government is solid and has control of the region.

Am I missing anything?

Our goal is for Iraq to be able to provide security for itself and not turn into a taliban-ish Al Qaeda controlled state. This is starting to happen and we are already starting to remove troops, and will bring more home. many provinces have reverted to Iraqi control, and they are currently self governed.

Why are you so worried about troop withdrawals? We have troops all over the world. It's interesting you don't mention them.

Unless Saddam has returned in Lich Form, I'm not sure if you're just watching too much Keith Olbermann or you had an actual valid point.

Personally I think every single troop in every single foreign nation should be pulled out.

Regardless, I wanted to know what your idea, or better yet, a pro war person's idea of that a successful Iraq solution is. What specifically has to happen in order for our war in iraq to be over and our troops come home?

[Evermore]

the problem here is this isnt a military solution. Never was. Its a socio-political one.

[Arlos]

In all honesty, it's a MARKETING war. It's our ideology vs their ideology, and right now, theirs is winning because our actions are going completely counter to our stated ideology. I can't IMAGINE why the rest of the world doesn't buy our protestations of being a nation that loves peace and justice when by any measure 50,000+ innocent civilians have died in Iraq as a direct result of our invasion, we've sent innocent people to repressive regimes to be tortured, or tortured them ourselves, and we deny prisoners basic human rights.

Unfortunately, Lyion has bought into the Neocon Kool-aid, and doesn't regard the loss of civil liberties inherent in things like the Patriot act or the unilateral power regarding "enemy combatants" as an issue. I think that's insane, and will argue against that loss of liberty unceasingly. Fortunately, those who imposed it in power seem to be losing their sway, and odds look good that the excesses will be done away with.

Bush and what he has wrought with this nation is one of the darkest hours this country has ever seen in our entire history. We stand on the verge of losing all we have ever stood for, in the name of expediency and "security". Whoever becomes the next president is going to have one of the hardest jobs any president has ever faced, in getting this nation back on the right track.

-Arlos

[Lyion]

Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, and Ahmedinajahd all applaud your propaganda. Well said!

[Arlos]

*yawn* Point out to me where, anywhere, I have said anything in support of any of those 3 individuals? I certainly can understand why Cuba revolted, given the oppressive regime that the US supported there, but that doesn't mean I like Fidel.

I'm sure your main man Mussolini would approve of the direction this country is going. You certainly seem to believe that the State should always prevail over individual liberties. You going to crow about Bush getting the Trains to run on time next?

-Arlos

(see? I can make ad hominem attacks linking you to people too!)

[Lyion]

Speaking of /yawn

I'll believe Tony Blair, John Howard and those, and let you continue to spout the talking points of Iran, Cuba, Venezuela and Al Qaeda, thanks, even though it certainly isn't fact.

You <and others> have Bush Derangement Syndrome and could care less about facts, as you froth at the mouth and cheer and copy Castro, Chavez and others who hate freedom, but whom you strangely align yourself to rhetorically, and don't even see it.

I'll take the truth, not propaganda like you and others, thanks. It's easy to see who's drinking the kool aid here.

[brinstar]

i know you are but what am i