Let's just ban everything!

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Let's just ban everything!

Postby Harrison » Wed May 07, 2008 3:38 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7364475.stm

bbc wrote: When does kinky porn become illegal?

By Chris Summers
BBC News

A bill outlawing the possession of "extreme pornography" is set to become law next week. But many fear it has been rushed through and will criminalise innocent people with a harmless taste for unconventional sex.

Five years ago Jane Longhurst, a teacher from Brighton, was murdered. It later emerged her killer had been compulsively accessing websites such as Club Dead and Rape Action, which contained images of women being abused and violated.

When Graham Coutts was jailed for life Jane Longhurst's mother, Liz, began a campaign to ban the possession of such images.

WHAT IS EXTREME PORNOGRAPHY?
As defined by the new Criminal Justice Bill
An act which threatens or appears to threaten a person's life
An act which results in or appears to result in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals
An act which involves or appears to involve sexual interference with a human corpse
A person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal

Supported by her local MP, Martin Salter, she found a listening ear in then home secretary, David Blunkett, who agreed to introduce legislation to ban the possession of "violent and extreme pornography".

This was eventually included in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill, which gets its final reading this week and will get Royal Assent on 8 May.

Until now pornographers, rather than consumers, have needed to operate within the confines of the 1959 Obscene Publications Act (OPA). While this law will remain, the new act is designed to reflect the realities of the internet age, when pornographic images may be hosted on websites outside the UK.

Under the new rules, criminal responsibility shifts from the producer - who is responsible under the OPA - to the consumer.

But campaigners say the new law risks criminalising thousands of people who use violent pornographic images as part of consensual sexual relationships.

People like Helen, who by day works in an office in the Midlands, and enjoys being sexually submissive and occasionally watching pornography, portrayed by actors, which could be banned under the new legislation.

Please turn on JavaScript. Media requires JavaScript to play. She feels the new law is an over-reaction to the Longhurst case.

"Mrs Longhurst sees this man having done this to her daughter and she wants something to blame and rather than blame this psychotic man she wants to change the law but she doesn't really understand the situation," says Helen.

"Do you ban alcohol just because some people are alcoholics?"

She has an ally in Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer, a Liberal Democrat peer who has fought to have the legislation amended.

"Obviously anything that leads to violence against women has to be taken very seriously," says Baroness Miller. "But you have to be very careful about the definition of 'extreme pornography' and they have not nearly been careful enough."

She has suggested the new act adopt the legal test set out in the OPA, which bans images which "tend to deprave and corrupt".

But the government has sought to broaden the definition and the bill includes phrases such as "an act which threatens or appears to threaten a person's life".

Speaking from her home in Berkshire, Mrs Longhurst acknowledges that libertarians see her as "a horrible killjoy".

I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG
A lot of people would like to march and demonstrate against this law but if you stick your head above the parapet you are going to get yourself in the firing line
Helen defends extreme porn
"I'm not. I do not approve of this stuff but there is room for all sorts of different people. But anything which is going to cause damage to other people needs to be stopped."

To those who fear the legislation might criminalise people who use violent pornography as a harmless sex aid, she responds with a blunt "hard luck".

"There is no reason for this stuff. I can't see why people need to see it. People say what about our human rights but where are Jane's human rights?"

Recently, the much-publicised rompings of Formula 1 boss Max Mosley have served as a reminder that kinky sex is found in all walks of society.

And just as Mr Mosley is fighting the expose of his antics, calling it an invasion of private life, so Baroness Miller says the new law also threatens people's privacy.

"The government is effectively walking into people's bedrooms and saying you can't do this. It's a form of thought police."

She says there's a danger of "criminalising kinkiness" and fears the legislation has been rushed through Parliament without proper debate because it is a small part of a wider bill.

Deborah Hyde, of Backlash, an umbrella group of anti-censorship and alternative sexuality pressure groups, has similar concerns.

Having engaged in it consensually would not be a crime, but to have a photograph of it in one's possession would be a crime. That does not seem to make sense to me
Lord Wallace of Tankerness

"How many tens or hundreds or thousands of people are going to be dragged into a police station, have their homes turned upside down, their computers stolen and their neighbours suspecting them of all sorts?"

Such "victims" won't feel able to fight the case and "will take a caution, before there are enough test cases to prove that this law is unnecessary and unworkable".

Another opponent of the new law is Edward Garnier, an MP and part-time judge, who questioned the clause when it was debated in the Commons.

"My primary concern is the vagueness of the offence," says Mr Garnier. "It was very subjective and it would not be clear to me how anybody would know if an offence had been committed."

But the Ministry of Justice is unrepentant, saying the sort of images it is seeking to outlaw are out of place in modern-day Britain.

"Pornographic material which depicts necrophilia, bestiality or violence that is life threatening or likely to result in serious injury to the anus, breasts or genitals has no place in a modern society and should not be tolerated," says a spokeswoman for the ministry.

Yet opponents have also seized on what they see as an anomaly in the new law, noted by Lord Wallace of Tankerness during last week's debate in the House of Lords.

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," he said.

With that partly in mind, the government is tabling an amendment that would allow couples to keep pictures of themselves engaged in consensual acts - but not to distribute them. Lord Hunt, who has charge of the bill in the Lords, admits it is being rushed through to meet a deadline. But he denies the law has not been thoroughly considered and maintains it will only affect images that are "grossly offensive and disgusting".


Now I think some people aren't right in the head for the above but, this is going on a slippery slope.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby araby » Wed May 07, 2008 8:13 am

We are gonna pass a bill soon that bans lap dances.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby 10sun » Wed May 07, 2008 9:27 am

They should probably just ban sex.

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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Zanchief » Wed May 07, 2008 9:29 am

Aren't all those things illegal already?
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby 10sun » Wed May 07, 2008 9:35 am

They are illegal to produce and distribute, but not to own/watch iirc.

This new law is shifting the focus to the consumer as well.

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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Harrison » Wed May 07, 2008 9:53 am

Trust me, I think anyone watching that shit should probably be cleansed from the gene-pool too.

...but shit, where does the line get drawn on what is okay with the government and what isn't?
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Drem » Wed May 07, 2008 10:11 am

I think banning things like this is a good idea
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Harrison » Wed May 07, 2008 10:41 am

That's the worst part. I agree with that. I also think no one should have the ability to actually enforce such a thing.

Sickened by the content...
Sickened by the banning of the content...

I can't even say it without contradicting myself.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby ClakarEQ » Wed May 07, 2008 10:59 am

Each to their own, I can see some fetish groups haveing some real problem with something like this.

I can also see this being used as a basis to reach into virtual content, "appears to . . ." is rather broad. The content in GameXYZ, where the criminal rapes then shoots the hooker (can you say GTA), "appears to . . . ". Virtual it may be but they are looking at ways to stop the content all together.

Personally it is pretty vile stuff there but if someone likes pain with their pleasure, why is it the GOVs job to stop them?

You could throw more than half the content on redtube, spankwire, etc into this one:
An act which results in or appears to result in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals

(ok maybe a stretch but this type foundation always seems to overflow its bounds)
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Minrott » Wed May 07, 2008 1:09 pm

Keep voting left, and by 2020 we'll be playing with rubber blocks and kept safe by robot guardians.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Tikker » Wed May 07, 2008 1:33 pm

right wing wingnuts are hilarious
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby araby » Wed May 07, 2008 3:39 pm

The guy who started Focus on The Family (which is the same place my ex husband and I went for counseling for a weekend before our divorce) says porn is not okay for a marriage. It goes against everything a marriage defines. I agree. But I'm not married. And I don't believe in government intervention.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Arlos » Wed May 07, 2008 4:00 pm

The Focus on Family people are one of the groups that would cheerfully ban porn altogether, if they had their choice in the matter.

As long as no one is getting actually injured, the government should have no say whatsoever in what consenting adults want to do or watch as long as what they're doing or watching also involves freely consenting adults, and no serious injuries are involved.

While I personally may find many various fetishes gross or bizarre, it is not in any way my place to pass judgment on what someone else likes or doesn't like.

Oh, and Minrott, notice that it is the CONSERVATIVES that are trying to do this, not the left. The people on the left are the ones OPPOSING it. So your warning statement seems rather laughable, when you've got it backwards....

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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Drem » Wed May 07, 2008 6:31 pm

Minrott wrote:Keep voting left, and by 2020 we'll be playing with rubber blocks and kept safe by robot guardians.


man how out of touch can one person be
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Gaazy » Wed May 07, 2008 7:01 pm

nothing gets me off like a nice bloody murdered pussy!!! What a bunch of sick fucks.


Its always women that go off and start these groups and shit about stuff thinking they are going to make a difference (except that blunkett guy int he article i guess, but fuck, he was a "home secretary", and if that doesnt speel faggot i dont know what does, so he might as well be a women". bout the only one that comes to mind that actually makes sense is M.A.D.D., the rest are a bunch of cunts who think anyone gives a shit about their demonstration groups or whatever. Imagine how nice everything would be if women couldnt talk and stuff~ People worry waaaaaaaaaaaaay to fucking much about shit they cant change. You cant change the way a person thinks naturally. Like oh yeah, thats sick, you shouldnt think like that! Then they automatically change their minds and find different types of porn to get off on. If thats waht gets them off, then thats what gets them off. Might as well give up and worry about their own godamn selves and stop worrying about it, it would a whole hell of a lot less headache
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Drem » Wed May 07, 2008 7:29 pm

Gaazy wrote:nothing gets me off like a nice bloody murdered pussy!!! What a bunch of sick fucks.


Its always women that go off and start these groups and shit about stuff thinking they are going to make a difference (except that blunkett guy int he article i guess, but fuck, he was a "home secretary", and if that doesnt speel faggot i dont know what does, so he might as well be a women". bout the only one that comes to mind that actually makes sense is M.A.D.D., the rest are a bunch of cunts who think anyone gives a shit about their demonstration groups or whatever. Imagine how nice everything would be if women couldnt talk and stuff~ People worry waaaaaaaaaaaaay to fucking much about shit they cant change. You cant change the way a person thinks naturally. Like oh yeah, thats sick, you shouldnt think like that! Then they automatically change their minds and find different types of porn to get off on. If thats waht gets them off, then thats what gets them off. Might as well give up and worry about their own godamn selves and stop worrying about it, it would a whole hell of a lot less headache


"...grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference" -Niehbur
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Gaazy » Wed May 07, 2008 7:38 pm

If that gay poet sounding quote was supposed to be a stab at me for not caring about things i COULD change or something, it didnt quite work, because Im still going to give myself as little headache about that stupid shit as I can

But if that super gay poet sounding quote was backing me up, its still super gay the way you said it~ but cool
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Drem » Wed May 07, 2008 9:43 pm

Gaazy wrote:If that gay poet sounding quote was supposed to be a stab at me for not caring about things i COULD change or something, it didnt quite work, because Im still going to give myself as little headache about that stupid shit as I can

But if that super gay poet sounding quote was backing me up, its still super gay the way you said it~ but cool


It's backing up your argument.... You said it exactly the way I think about it
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Minrott » Thu May 08, 2008 8:47 am

lol conservatives. In the UK? Funny.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby ClakarEQ » Thu May 08, 2008 9:46 am

Min, while I'm not real current on UK affairs, from what I understand, the Conservative party have a lot backing by the people there and the Labour party is not fairing well at all. Initially things were all keen and peachy but I suspect the next elected PM will be another conservative ala Tony Blair-esch. Browns approval ratings are not good (not in the same ball park as Bush mind you LOL)

A big difference IMO on why the UK people have more respect for each party is the parties eventually listen to the people (to a point). Blair began reducing troops prior to him leaving office, he did it under the pressure from the people. The people elected a labour' into office, and not even a year in Brown is doing very poorly. So I can see another UK conservative as PM in their next election.

As I said though, I'm not current with all things UK GOV.
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Ginzburgh » Thu May 08, 2008 1:33 pm

An act which results in or appears to result in serious injury to a person's anus


Oh Noz! No more "Club Gape"???
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Re: Let's just ban everything!

Postby Gaazy » Thu May 08, 2008 7:51 pm

no more club gape :( :( :(


and ya Drem, i thought that was backing it up, wasnt sure~
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