US Olympic Basketball team

[Phlegm]

LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Kidd, Tayshaun Prince, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Michael Redd and Deron Williams.

[recks]

They will get stomped by the NZ basketball team IMO.

[Tuggan]

LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Kidd, Tayshaun Prince, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Michael Redd and Deron Williams.

Those first 4 heads are going to be difficult to fit into one arena.

[Evermore]

i hope they do get whupped. might deflate the egos some...

[numatu]

They're far too rich for that to happen.

[vonkaar]

They actually announced the team back in 2006...

[Markarado]

I tried to get tickets to watch a few games. China has royally screwed up the process to get tickets. Fuck it. I'll watch it on TV if possible.

[Diekan]

i hope they do get whupped. might deflate the egos some...

I am pro-USA in all sports in the Olympics - BUT - it is a world event that's supposed to be for AMATEURS not fucking pro athletes. NBA players? The Williams girls? Gimme a break.

[Zanchief]

Yea, fuck the best players in the world competing for glory. I want to see some scrubs play for second place!

[Diekan]

I don't to watch scrubs either, but professional athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete - it's not their venue.

I'm a Kobe fan, and as much as I respect the guy he IS a professional basketball player.

I just want to see that cocky fucking Jamaican (that Bolt dude) get stomped, but I don't think it's going to happen. He's too damn fast.

[Arlos]

Olympics haven't been reserved for amateurs for over a decade now, if not longer.

-Arlos

[vonkaar]

And... every single national team in the Olympics is comprised of professional basketball players. We simply 'grow em' better >right now<. Consider the fact that we've gotten our asses handed to us in every major international event since 2002 (bronze medal in Athens '04) and you might see how it is much more competitive than the boxscores would lead you to believe.

We are winning simply because we are taking it seriously again. In 1992, we had the best team ever assembled - in any sport. That team played every game as if it were against 7th graders. We didn't take a single time out in any round of the olympics. With David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley as our front court, and Magic Johnson plus John Stockton make up your point-guard tandem... and, oh... Bird, Jordon, Pippen, Drexler and Mullin 'hanging around' inbetween... it wouldn't matter WHO we played. There was no 'seriousness' at all. We could have won the Gold playing 3 on 5, with any combo in there.

That carried over in 96, and even into 2000 - though we had a few scary moments in Sydney. By that point, the international game was quickly catching up. Players like Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol and the mighty Darko Milicic are proof of the much improved global gameplay.

We got 3rd in 2004. We only managed 3rd at the 2006 international game. The fact that we are once again blowing teams out of the water is proof that we are focused and 'care' about international ball (finally). In 1992, we didn't have to. Now, it's required and our dedication is showing.

[Diekan]

That's a very good point.

[vonkaar]

I started to type up a decent 'blog' about the finals... and then I saw this:
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/heisle ... nd-hearts/

pretty much covers everything I had to say

It was a lot of fun to watch them this year. The gold medal game was incredible.

[Zanchief]

I'm glad they won. It's a good group of guys. Despite what people think (mostly ignorant) the NBA doesn't just have punks.

I'm glad Bosh did well, he seems to really be doing a good job of promoting himself. I hope it doesn’t backfire come contract time.

Sure I didn't watch a single game because I dislike the Olympics, but it's good to see a bunch of unfairly marginalised players stick in the face of all the naysayer's.

[recks]

I watched a few games. Wade looked like he's back and Howard looked like a fairy in the lanes.

Although I love NBA (prolly too much) this event didn't really interest me at all. Look at the USA roster... it should be a fucking cakewalk for them. Paul and Williams coming off the bench... I don't know why the US is so proud? They went up against scrubs and did what they should. Sure international basketball is getting *slightly* better, but the final game should never have been so close. There's no reason why USA should win by less than 25+ each game. Spain was full of scrubs (Gasol's a weak scrub and can't put up when it's time, see NBA finals), only player on that team who's gonna be worth something is Ricky Rubio.

I mean I'm glad they won... but it's not some huge feat like most media outlets are making it out to be.

Edit: haha @ Jason Kidd... giving his gold medal away to Steve Wynn's wife? Gambling mark? lol

[vonkaar]

You obviously aren't watching international ball. Pure talent doesn't matter as much anymore, teamwork is all that counts. A good analogy is the 2004 NBA finals... the Lakers with 4 hall of famers and arguably the greatest coach of all time vs the pistons with 3 guys that would not have made the all-star squad if they played in the West. But... Detroit had the superior teamwork and they beat the fuck out of the 'superior talent' Lakers. Beat em bad.

That's how it is in international basketball. We have been getting our asses handed to us for the past 8 years because we didn't understand this concept. Here's 'another' quick rundown of how our teams have fared since 2000:

In 2000, our olympic team had Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter in his PRIME, Gary Payton, Ray Allen and many other 'top tier' talent. We came within ONE MISSED 3-pointer from LITHUANIA from going to the bronze-medal game. We barely beat them 85-83. In the Gold medal game, we beat Australia (with NO NBA players) by only 10 points.

Enter 2002 - international world championships. USA finishes SIXTH. Awesome.

2004 olympics in Athens... some of the very top talent in the league - Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Shaun Marion, Amare Stoudamire. We lose the FIRST game in the olympics to Puerto Rico, by NINETEEN points. It was only the 3rd loss for America in the history of basketball in the olympics, and the first since we allowed professionals to play. Nineteen points! But hey, we beat Angola by 36! Follow that up with a loss to Lithania and Argentina and the mighty Team USA comes home with a Bronze medal.

2006 - we lose to Greece in the semifinals and finish with 3rd place. Oh, our roster looked pretty much the same as it did in these 2008 olympics. Kobe and Kidd were the only real differences.

2008 - Now we've played 'as a team' for nearly 2 years. Talent comes through and we beat the fuck out of almost everyone... until the gold medal game and Spain (missing their 2nd best player) plays out of their mind. But it wasn't easy at all. In the exhibition games, just 2 weeks before the opening ceremony, this exact Team USA squad almost got owned by an Australian team that contains ONE NBA player - Andrew Bogut .

We are back on top, but it hasn't been easy. These past 8 years have been incredibly painful for the supposed "best" basketball country.

[recks]

Vonkaar, I'm not saying you're wrong. You make great points. However, when a team full of players that can't even get NBA playing time (Hello, Marc) or can't even make it into the NBA goes up against it's star players, 99.9% of the time I expect the stars to win, regardless if the other team has better teamwork/chemistry. This is why I can't get excited when they do, or think it's a big deal when they do.

Not to derail the topic, but in 2004 I would argue that a prime Ben Wallace, Sheed', Billups, Rip and Prince's defensive presence >>>>> than shaq/kobe. Payton and Malone were shells of their former skins, and while Phil Jackson is the best coach of all time, Brown is pretty close to his level. Overall Detroit had more talent when you look at all the positions.

[Zanchief]

this exact Team USA squad almost got owned by an Australian team that contains ONE NBA player - Andrew Bogut .

Have we given up all this Andrew Bogut is the next Tim Duncan talk?

[vonkaar]

Not to derail the topic, but in 2004 I would argue that a prime Ben Wallace, Sheed', Billups, Rip and Prince's defensive presence >>>>> than shaq/kobe. Payton and Malone were shells of their former skins, and while Phil Jackson is the best coach of all time, Brown is pretty close to his level. Overall Detroit had more talent when you look at all the positions.

That's soooo easy to say in retrospect. At the time, people were predicting a Laker's sweep and some were calling it the most one-sided finals in the history of the shot-clock. Before the '04 finals, nobody really knew that much about the ridiculously effective 'big four' in Detroit, and Rasheed had only recently been traded to them (right near the deadline). Shaq was still in his prime... Kobe was blossoming and Malone was VERY effective in the last half of the season until he tweaked his knee (I think) against San Antonio in the playoffs. This was one of the most powerful teams of the decade and the only major changes were the ADDITION of two hall-of-famers. Derek Fisher & Deaven George were still there... Lose Rick Fox and gain Karl Malone? uh yeah... Even Malone at 30% is a MASSIVE improvement. NOBODY gave the Pistons any chance in hell.

Now... the following seasons... of course everyone was afraid of Detroit. Flip Saunders comes in and they go off for 65 wins... Sheed/Billups/Wallace/Hamilton/Prince was the scariest starting 5 in the league. McDyess comes in and completely revitalizes his career with solid play... But that's not how it was before the finals. Nobody gave them a chance in hell.

As for the olympics... many MANY of the opposing players have had no desire to play in the NBA. Why come over here to pay stupid taxes, learn a foreign language, receive 0 marketing deals, eat greasy food and likely get limited playing time when you could be a GOD in your own country? Someone like Dirk likely wouldn't leave his country for the NBA these days... there's just no point. Šarūnas Jasikevičius (yes, I copied & pasted that) taught the euros that... He is a legend in Euro basketball and one of the highest paid ballers on the planet. Came over to the NBA and didn't really fit into the system. He bounced around a bit but then got fed up and went back to Europe as the highest paid ATHLETE in Greek history, grabbed a $65m Nike contract and married the 2006 Mrs. World. Kick ass. Your example of Marc Gasol is an odd one... he's a rookie... how much playing time do you expect him to have? Hint: all current rookies have 0 playing time.

You can say, "we should beat the fuck out of those scrubs," all day long... and it won't change HISTORY. Look, we've lost (re: no Gold) more than we've won in the past 6 years. Every time, we've gone with 'top talent'. Maybe, just maybe, the international players are a little better than you are giving them credit?

6 years... 4 major tournaments. We are 1-3 at getting the gold.

[vonkaar]

this exact Team USA squad almost got owned by an Australian team that contains ONE NBA player - Andrew Bogut .

Have we given up all this Andrew Bogut is the next Tim Duncan talk?

Did I say that?

I think he's a decent center but I don't recall ever thinking THAT about him. I *have* said that about Bosh though.

[Zanchief]

Just before his rookie year you told me something like he's a white Tim Duncan or something to that effect. I don't think it was on NT. I think it was while we were playing WoW so I don't have a transcript of the conversation~

I probably prompted the comparison because I assume all white centers are scrubs. (Exp: Kevin Love).

[vonkaar]

Sabonis was a stud... could have been an all-time great if he played his prime years in the NBA (instead of for Mother Russia).

Also... Shawn Bradley

Kristic was pretty decent before he got injured... so... for like, 11 weeks, he was good.

Chris Kaman is great, but he's also undead and has that zombie thing going for him.

[recks]

That's soooo easy to say in retrospect. At the time, people were predicting a Laker's sweep and some were calling it the most one-sided finals in the history of the shot-clock. Before the '04 finals, nobody really knew that much about the ridiculously effective 'big four' in Detroit, and Rasheed had only recently been traded to them (right near the deadline). Shaq was still in his prime... Kobe was blossoming and Malone was VERY effective in the last half of the season until he tweaked his knee (I think) against San Antonio in the playoffs. This was one of the most powerful teams of the decade and the only major changes were the ADDITION of two hall-of-famers. Derek Fisher & Deaven George were still there... Lose Rick Fox and gain Karl Malone? uh yeah... Even Malone at 30% is a MASSIVE improvement. NOBODY gave the Pistons any chance in hell.

Now... the following seasons... of course everyone was afraid of Detroit. Flip Saunders comes in and they go off for 65 wins... Sheed/Billups/Wallace/Hamilton/Prince was the scariest starting 5 in the league. McDyess comes in and completely revitalizes his career with solid play... But that's not how it was before the finals. Nobody gave them a chance in hell.

It doesn't matter if anybody gave them a chance in hell, that's not the point. You were arguing that the lakers had a more talented team and that teamwork is the thing that got Detroit through... had nothing to do with odds. Sure it was easy to say in retrospect, but I'm cool like that.

RE: Marc Gasol, I thought he was traded to the Grizz last year with his brother's deal. I didn't know it was just the rights. My bad, I never watch the Grizzlies.

I think I'm giving the international players the credit they deserve. There a few great players sure, but the overwhelming majority couldn't hold a candle to anyone in the NBA. Why is Rubio going to declare for the NBA in a few years? Because he knows that's where he will be remembered on a world stage. I can say this without biased because I'm not from the US, so it's not like I'm dick riding my country or anything.

It's fine to be a superstar in another league, but you're still not playing against the best available, so at the end of the day, you're not going to be remembered as one of the best. You took the easy way out and played against shit-house teams/players.

Edit : Admitted it was easy to say in retrospect.

[vonkaar]

Um... During the prelims, Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Wade, Paul, Bosh and Howard all said that they would play in Europe if the money was right. Outside of Wade and Kobe (and LBJ, but less), who of them have really experienced 'champion level play' in the NBA? Yet any of them would pack up and leave that behind - for the money.

You are totally downplaying how international the NBA has already become.

Entering into the 2007-2008 season, one out of every 3.2 players in the league is "international." A THIRD of the league is from overseas.

Since 2000, an average of 35% of the draft has been spent on international talent, including 4 top3 picks (two #1s)

League MVPs since 2000:
2000 - Allen Iverson (USA)
2001 - Tim Duncan (St. Croix)
2002 - Tim Duncan (St. Croix)
2003 - Kevin Garnett (USA) note: Peja came in 2nd - Serbia.
2004 - Steve Nash (Canada)
2005 - Steve Nash (Canada)
2006 - Dirk Nowitzki (Germany)
2007 - Kobe Bryant (USA)

USA MVPs: 3
International MVPs: 5

Since 2000, the all-star squad has had an average of 30% international talent. In 2006, 6 of the 12 all-stars from the West were not American.

As for Detroit vs L.A. OF COURSE L.A. had the more 'talented' team - on paper anyway... People were calling them the GREATEST TEAM EVER ASSEMBLED.

Shaq vs Wallace? Most dominant, unstoppable PLAYER in his prime vs a defensive stud with 0 offensive game.
Kobe vs RIP? no contest... no need to even cover this one.
Fox vs Prince? Nobody even knew about Tayshaun Prince before this series, whereas Rick Fox already had 3 rings.
Karl Malone vs Rasheed Wallace? Take away the injury in the WCF and he was a superior player, even in old age.
Billups vs Payton? Give it to Chauncy here... he already had a name and was a stud PG.

It's easy to say Malone and Payton were past their primes but they were still potent players... Malone was still getting offers LAST YEAR to play, and Payton killed me in 2006 with Miami. As for the bench... Mike James and an underused Mehmet Okur are the only things worth mentioning on Detroit's side. L.A. had George, Fisher, Rush, Grant, Cook... not even close.