Did Canada get fucked out of gold?

[Diekan]

I realize the Chinese divers did an excellent job - but am I the only one who thought the judges were a lot more harsh on the non-Chinese divers? That Emily chick (the Canadian) SHOULD have gotten higher scores than she did - and the final Chinese diver should NOT have gotten three 10's - 9.5 at the most - she hosed the start of the dive - and even the announcers missed it.

I think Canada got screwed, but it's all a matter of opinion.

I was pulling for Laura hard but she just couldn't keep her splashes to a minimum.

[Reynaldo]

Obviously I'm no diving expert but the Canadian girl's dives did look >>> than the Chinese girl's to me.

[Kramer]

nah, they were close enough to simiarly scored

[Tikker]

do you guys remember the olympics in seoul that were so corrupt? especially the boxing?

[ClakarEQ]

I think part of the problem, and they've mentioned this many times, is the random nature of country selection judging a paticular diver. So the chinese have countries A, B, C, but the canuks have countries X, Y, Z. Lets say A and B know ass about diving, so they score, in a way, incorrectly, but then you have X and Y who know all about diving, tend to be more critical, etc.

I've seen a few issues like this across many of the judging based events. Look at what happend to the US gymnast who got an EXACT tie with a China gymnest, because of the way things are now, they didn't do a tie breaker event, they just did fuzzy math logic and said the China girl won.

Eitherway, this new scoring IMO is fucked up in more ways than one.

[Haylo]

To me all of the judged events I have been watching have skewed in China's favor. Are the Chinese athletes good? Yes they are, but are they really so far over the other countries that the scores should be as vastly varying as they have been, I don't think so. Gymnastics in particular is really shady this year, with 5 of China's 6 competitors suspected to be underage. Two of the girls are missing baby teeth and two of them are also listed as 13 & 14 as late as 2007 registration lists that have mysteriously disappeared. Being that you have to turn 16 in the year of the Olympics, that's a big deal. Of course China is citing as their proof of age, a multitude of government documents that could have in no way been altered, I mean really, no one would do that. Never mind the fact that it was China's leading Communist newspaper that ran the story on the girl's ages earlier this year, now it is being said that the paper was wrong. Seriously the country used a ringer 7 yr old to sing at the opening ceremonies because the real singer wasn't cute enough. If they would do that, why not cheat when it really matters. In addition a competitor on their 2004 Athens team has already come out and said that she was only 14 when she competed and they changed her age. Once a cheater...

[Tikker]

there are no countries completely immune from having cheated at the olympics

some just didn't caught, like Carl Lewis

[Haylo]

I agree that there are no immune countries, but to me it's different when the cheating is government sanctioned. It's one thing when an individual athlete decides to dope, that's them being an idiot. But when a team enters younger competitors and it's being pushed to do so with full favor and assistance from the government, it ruins the event for everyone else. The Chinese girls were good, damn good, but they are too young. Many other countries have young girls just as good, in gymnastics younger is better for various factors. For instance the gold medal individual winner this year was Nastia Liukin. Last Olympics she missed the age cut-off by a few months and she was widely considered to be one of the best in the world, who's to say that she wouldn't have helped lead USA to a gold in Athens. But she didn't go because it wasn't allowed. Anyway /soapbox off. I think that China has definitely gotten some overly favorable judging but i'm sure that many would say all host countries do to some extent. I guess it's all in the perception.

[Diekan]

Those are good posts by Haylo. There is a vast difference between a competitor doping and the government of a country perpetrating a fraud on the world. Not to mention the obvious skewed judging in favor of China. I'd like to see a break down of medals awarded to the US in terms of opinion oriented scoring (gymnastics) and straight up win/lose scoring (track/field).

[Haylo]

The US has 31 total gold medals; 28 gold medals in non-judged events and an additional 3 in judged events. China has 47 total gold; 23 of them are in judged events; 24 in non-judged.

[Diekan]

That just shows who complete warped the judging is!

When the results aren't based on opinion we pull off 28 golds.
When the results are based on opinion we only pull of 3.

Man it's so freaking obvious, isn't it?

[Tikker]

I agree that there are no immune countries, but to me it's different when the cheating is government sanctioned.

dude

certain countries just don't publicly acknowledge it *cough*usa*cough*

[Diekan]

riiiggggghhhhtttt and Canada is completely innocent of ever committing an intentional wrong on the world's athletic stage?

[Haylo]

I don't deny that everyone cheats at some point, but i'd like to know when the USA has sanctioned and participated in cheating on the scale that can be compared to what China is doing with the women's gymnastic team.

[Diekan]

He understands.... he just hates the US.

[Diekan]

I think part of the problem, and they've mentioned this many times, is the random nature of country selection judging a paticular diver. So the chinese have countries A, B, C, but the canuks have countries X, Y, Z. Lets say A and B know ass about diving, so they score, in a way, incorrectly, but then you have X and Y who know all about diving, tend to be more critical, etc.

I've seen a few issues like this across many of the judging based events. Look at what happend to the US gymnast who got an EXACT tie with a China gymnest, because of the way things are now, they didn't do a tie breaker event, they just did fuzzy math logic and said the China girl won.

Eitherway, this new scoring IMO is fucked up in more ways than one.

Well, I think it's sad to allow personal biases to affect the athletes in a negative way. I have issues with the Chinese government, but if I were a judge I'm not going to "punish" the Chinese athletes competing because of it.

I think jealousy also plays a role. We typically dominate overall, and some countries can't seem to handle it. We'll always do better when judging isn't based on opinions.

[Tikker]

riiiggggghhhhtttt and Canada is completely innocent of ever committing an intentional wrong on the world's athletic stage?

never ever said that

I'd wager that there's only a very tiny number of athletes who are 100% truly clean and legit

everyone takes supplements of some sort, and has a program/routine of what to take when etc etc

I'm just saying, don't go around pointing fingers at other countries when yours isn't clean either

[Diekan]

eh? We're not the only one's making noise over this - there are several countries asking questions. In fact enough noise has been made that the IOC has demanded an investigation. You can't convince me those girls are over 14... you can just look at them and tell.

I will agree that there are probably a ton of athletes that use any means they can to get the edge; even if it's illegal.

I think China might have thought that because they were the host country they could get away with a little more. Being a communist "state run" country, however, I think it is going to be all but impossible for the IOC or anyone else to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the level of dishonesty of the Chinese gymnastics team. Thus, I will be very surprised if they lose their medals.

[Haylo]

Yup that's the kicker. The only things that can be used for proof are all government issued. There's nothing to stop them from altering and submitting whatever they want. I'll stand by the fact that as someone who has followed gymnastics for years, who has seen many Chinese teams in the past, those girls are underage. China contends that their females are just smaller, which is true, but not that much smaller. Deng LinLin and He Kexin in particular are in no way, shape or form post-pubescent.

I agree with Karolyi, the Chinese are extremely arrogant to think that no one would question it, it doesn't even take a gymnast enthusiast, any parent or person who has regularly been around kids can look and see the truth. Karolyi believes that the age limit should be dropped and that kids that are good enough should be allowed to compete regardless, I agree. The age limit just gives cheaters the advantage.

[Phlegm]

Of course Karolyi wants them to drop the age limit. He is the reason they put in the age limit in the first place after all the young Romanian girls were injured under his tutelage.

[Tuggan]

I say you just remove any sport where the winner is determined by judges Problem solved.

[Tikker]

I say you just remove any sport where the winner is determined by judges Problem solved.

no shit

start with baseball!

[Kramer]

Here Here!!!

[Tuggan]

I think since the IOC is removing baseball/softball, on the basis that it's not "worldly" enough. They should be required to get rid of Handball. That's the lamest shit i've ever seen, and never heard of up until a few weeks ago.

[Diekan]

I kind of think the opposite. We need more win/lose events based of points (goals, runs, etc - scored) and less events based off judges opinions.

By the way, wtf is up with this Johnson fascination? I don't blame her for it, but my God - how low is your self-esteem when you spend an entire day of your time waiting for a glimpse of some 16 year old gymnast then go all Beatles over when you finally get that glimpse. Retarded.

IF anyone deserves the hype it's Phelps.