Debate 3

[brinstar]

except you're in the minority about that

the needs of the many will (and should) always outweigh the wants of a few, and as long as you're going to live and work in this country, our government WILL TAKE money from you and use it to help people that need it, whether you agree or not.

if you are okay with part of what YOU EARN going to help FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, then shut up. if you are NOT okay with that, then

get the MOTHER

FUCK

OUT.

[Diekan]

Your (weak) reply made zero sense.

[brinstar]

perhaps that's because you're a giant fucking retard?

you type pretty well for a retard, good thing my hard-earned dollars helped pay for your special-needs education

[Arlos]

Mindia, I think you know that my IQ is at least semi-normal, yes? Neither am I a lazy parasite by any means. I have supported myself for years and years, and when the economy went into the tank post-9/11, I didn't sit and bemoan it, I went out and started doing something productive with my time. I am quite happy to earn my own wealth too, thanks.

Yet I am an ardent Obama supporter, despite fitting into neither of your categories, and I am by no means brainwashed.

I like Obama because I think he has the absolute right idea about what needs to be done to fix this country. In the last 8 years under Bush, we have seen a dramatic decline in the Middle Class in this country. Over that 8 year span, the average middle class person has LOST spending power against inflation, compared to the 8 years of Clinton's term, where that value, by the end of his administration, was sitting at over $6000 in improvement over when he took office.

The Bush style of tax plan, which McCain follows, really benefits ONLY the richest people in the country, and serves to further widen the gap between richest and poorest, and further erode the middle class. Did you actually go to the tax calculator link that Gypsiee posted? I bet you anything that you personally will pay LESS taxes under Obama than you would under McCain. In return, people like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates pay more. Gee, I think they can afford it.

Now, I realize part of your dislike of Obama is rooted in the Abortion issue, and that I can understand being a reason you could never support him. I personally am on a similar side to him on the issue, which is a reason why *I* would never vote for McCain, since he is not.

But in other areas, I really think you've gotten a wrong impression on the man. He's a very devout Christian, and actually is a supporter of Bush's Faith-Based initiatives, which I personally oppose, for example. There has never been any hint of unfaithfulness when it comes to his wife and family, unlike McCain, who has been proven to have had multiple affairs, including demanding his first wife divorce him so he could marry his latest fling, while that wife was in intensive care in the hospital! How can you accept that, when I know how much Clinton's infidelity pissed you off? He never apologized either for sleeping around either, you know.

I urge you, most strongly, to read the entries on Snopes and Factcheck.org about Obama, so you can perhaps correct some of your knowledge about those misconceptions and lies that have been floating around about him. I think if you seriously do that research, you'll find that he's very little like what you have been claiming him to be. I don't expect you to vote for him, certainly, given your disagreement on the abortion question, but please, as a favor to me at least, DO the research.

Oh, and remember, I was right 4 years ago about how bad Bush would be for this country, and you disagreed with me most vociferously. I think history has proven that I was right then. Could you possibly allow for the fact that I might well be right here again?

-Arlos

[Diekan]

Do you REALLY believe that either of those fools [Obama / McCain] are going to cut taxes on the Middle Class? Seriously.

This two-front war has a price tag of almost a TRILLION dollars now.
Wall Street had to put up a new "clock" to measure the debt it has gotten so high.
This bail out has a price tag of 800+ BILLION dollars.

So, they cut taxes... ummm where is the money (intended to meet the demands of the above mentioned list) supposed to come from? Hmmm?

Obama wants to throw MORE money at the education system.
He wants to create universal health care.

Where is he going to get that money?

I'm all "eyes."

The fact is... NEITHER of them are in a position to make any promises of lower taxes on ANYONE. They are nothing more than full-of-shit-empty-campaign-promises that no one with an IQ above 30 should be falling for at this point in time.

Whether Obama OR McCain wins is irrelevent to this issue... our taxes are NOT going down, period.

[Tossica]

READ HIS FUCKING PLAN.

It says where every dollar is going to come from.

How many times does someone have to say READ HIS PLAN before you'll fucking read it and quit asking stupid fucking questions that have been answered MONTHS ago.

[Gypsiyee]

not to mention that his health care plan is not a "universal healthcare plan" in the context that you represent - if you're thinking it's anything like hillary's, it's not, and that was a key issue they focused on in the primaries because it was one of their few differences.

this is the biggest problem, I think - people take every liberal idea ever to be spoken and assume that it is what Obama has laid out - he's liberal, no doubt about that, but his platform is not a shit stew of everything every liberal has ever said.

[ClakarEQ]

Diek, seriously man, you sound like an extreme elitist. How old are you? It sounds to me like you're sitting comfy up at college somewhere attempting to get a piece of paper that you think (laugh) will actually get you someplace. Perhaps it will, in 10 fucking years LOL.

This country was founded on a lot of things, like ethics, morals, kindness to your fellow man. It wasn't founded on fuck you all, it's all about me and my money and if I have to fuck over a bunch of poor folks and keep my thumb on them, they lose, I win attitude.

Pull your head out of your ass, as educated as you think you are, you're sounding really stupid those last few posts. You sound like the very thing the majority of this nation wants to purge itself of.

[Gypsiyee]

I've seen this all over the place today, so in case y'all haven't - classic face! definite downside of having so many cameras snapping at you every second

[Diekan]

Diek, seriously man, you sound like an extreme elitist. How old are you? It sounds to me like you're sitting comfy up at college somewhere attempting to get a piece of paper that you think (laugh) will actually get you someplace. Perhaps it will, in 10 fucking years LOL.

This country was founded on a lot of things, like ethics, morals, kindness to your fellow man. It wasn't founded on fuck you all, it's all about me and my money and if I have to fuck over a bunch of poor folks and keep my thumb on them, they lose, I win attitude.

Pull your head out of your ass, as educated as you think you are, you're sounding really stupid those last few posts. You sound like the very thing the majority of this nation wants to purge itself of.

Do you even know what an elitist is? I doubt you do.

[Diekan]

That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and, hence, is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.

Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; it is a positive good in the world.

- Abraham Lincoln.

The true foundation of a republic is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management

- Thomas Jefferson.


That's what Freedom is about. The right to own. The right to prosper. The right to succeed. The right to keep what you labor for.

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

- Karl Marx.

Communism at its best.

You'll have to forgive me for siding with the likes of Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln in this case.

[brinstar]

so are you quoting marx in support of your selfishness or in an effort to condemn communism?

i happen to believe in that particular marxism

[Diekan]

There is nothing "selfish" about my nature. I have donated a total of $1,300 to PETA this year. I have donated close to $800.00 in cash and roughly 10 or so large bags of dog and cat food to my local animal sheltor. I have also donated a lot of money to the United Way through monthly deductions from my salary. I have donated money to the Old Savannah City Mission as well.

The difference is this: I made those donations out of choice. I do not want a government who has empowered itself to forcefully (through increased taxes or whatever vehicle they decide to mask "it" in) take more from me to distribute it as [they] see fit.

I don't know why folks don't see the difference.

[Diekan]

so are you quoting marx in support of your selfishness or in an effort to condemn communism?

i happen to believe in that particular marxism

As an intelligent adult you have that right. Doesn't make you wrong nor does it make me right. We have a difference of opinion of which is actually very healthy for a country of "individuals."

I support the concept to "keep what you earn" and you support the concept of "spreading it around a little." That's perfectly fine.

[Harrison]

lol @ 1.3k to PETA