Interesting clip on Housing Crisis

[Martrae]

IT WASN'T POOR PEOPLE AND ACORN YOU FUCKING DIPSHITS!

It was RICH people trying to cash in on poor people AND RICH people trying to get more rich by betting on risky mortgages that caused the collapse. Poor people weren't the ones buying up tons of houses, throwing a few $$$ at them and then trying to make a quick profit on them over and over and over again. Poor people weren't the ones packaging $100's of millions of dollars worth of risky mortgages together and then taking bets on what they would be worth in the future. Poor people weren't the ones buying $500K houses when they should have been buying $200K houses. Poor people weren't the ones taking out $100K home equity loans to pay off high interest credit cards, pay for their kids college, make ends meet. That was the middle class who have been taking it in the ASS this whole time.

You really don't know wtf ACORN did, do you? They went to poor people and told them "We will ensure you get a house. Your credit is whack? No worries. We'll call banks racist if they don't loan you the money. BTW sign up here to vote. Sign up all your relatives, too. They don't live with you? That don't matter. You know Obama used to work for us, right?" Which is EXACTLY what they did.

For some reason you think anyone attacking ACORN is attacking the poor when ACORN was the one USING the poor for their own purposes.

[Tossica]

You are full of shit Martrae. NOONE forced banks to give loans to people that could not afford them. Banks did that all on their own because they KNEW they could resell the loan immediately and turn a quick profit. Once it was out of their hands, they didn't have to worry about whether the people could actually afford it or not.

[Diekan]

In order to believe that Obama bears more blame than McCain you would have to be stating that you believe these problems have stemmed from actions only in the last 4 years. Do you really believe that? Because otherwise Obama has less accountability than McCain. How long has this issue been coming to a head? How long was McCain in Congress. How long did he call for less regulation. So what that two years ago he finally called for some checks on Fannie/Freddie. How long before that did he let it all happen, you know when Obama wasn't around.

Obama is not an angel, but he is less tainted by Washington's going ons than McCain and if you don't believe that than I don't know what else to say.

What I find most disturbing about Barack Obama is his seemingly inability to spot corruption and misgivings at a most rudimentary level.

Why do I think Barack Obama would destroy this country if he were elected president? Look back at my first sentence.

1. He sat in a church for TWENTY years, and was friends with the pastor of that church, who spewed anti-American hate speach. And what does Obama say about that? -- He didn't know.

2. He has ties to Willaim Ayers (which everyone here has heard about) - a confessed home-grown terrorist - and again how does Obama deal with it? -- He didn't know.

3. He has strong ties to Tony Resco http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/01/rezko/ and once again Obama uses the "I didn't know" line.

So what, right? Plenty. Obama is an Ivy League Lawyer and he can't spot the corruption with those whom he has direct associations with? He's either naive or lying. Consider it's the former and he was just naive. How is he supposed to run a country and fight corrupution when he can't even "see" it in those he directly dealt with and knows PERSONALLY?

As for his ties to the Housing/Credit Crisis?

1. Obama starting recieving campaign contributions from Freddie and Fannie from 1989 to the present for a grand total of over $40,000 (over a TWENTY year period). And this Ivy League Lawyer didn't "know" what was going on throughout the years?

2. He was asking Jim Johnson to select his running mate. Johnson is the former CEO... Fannie Mae (from '91 to '98). But, again I am sure Obama "didn't know anything." Johnson resigned after violating several accounting laws - but donated the max to the Obama campaign. He then goes to Goldman Sacs who then donates a total of 1.2 MILLION dollars to Obama's race bid.

3. He gets "housing advice" from Franklin Reins - the CEO of none other than Fannie Mae from '91 to '96. Then came BACK to Fannie Mae as the CEO once again from '99 to '04. He ended up getting a golden parachute and ILLEGAL loans. Why did he quit? Accounting corruption is why. But, again... "Obama didn't know."

4. Obama, while working as a lawyer was suing banks for NOT giving sub-prime loans. But, again as before... surely he really didn't know what was going on.

5. S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005. This bill was designed to prevent what we are going through now... it included the following: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex ... l=s109-190 Did Obama stand up to vote? Nope. He was silent.

So there it is. This man - the great hope of change - has strong ties and friendships with Jeremiah Wright, William Ayres, Tony Rezco and didn't "know" what they were "really" about. He has recieved more money from both Freddie and Fannie than any other candidate and has sought the advice of their respective CORRUPT CEO's and sued banks for refusing to give loans to people who couldn't afford them... and we're to believe he "didn't know anything?"

Again, for an Ivy League lawyer he's either a complete idiot or a bold faced liar.

Everything I have listed above can be proven as fact - all you have to do is research it.

And again I will say that I do not believe Obama is SOLELY responsible for this crisis but for him to stand "up there" and lie through his teeth that he "didn't know" and had "NO" part in it - in a time like this is, is inexcusable.

Not to mention he wants to be president of our country but runs around completely clueless (supposedly) about the nature of his surroundings... I do not want his finger "on the button."

** EDIT **

Do I think Obama is satan? No I do not. Do I think he is an evil person set out to intentionally destroy the world? No. I do not. I think he is a true to form socialist that will cause more harm to this country than good if he is elected - which he more than likely will.

[brinstar]

everyone here needs to spend some time on factcheck.org

[Martrae]

You are full of shit Martrae. NOONE forced banks to give loans to people that could not afford them. Banks did that all on their own because they KNEW they could resell the loan immediately and turn a quick profit. Once it was out of their hands, they didn't have to worry about whether the people could actually afford it or not.

I'm full of shit, am I?

Case Name
Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank Fair Housing/Lending/Insurance
Docket / Court 94 C 4094 ( N.D. Ill. ) FH-IL-0011
State/Territory Illinois
Case Summary
Plaintiffs filed their class action lawsuit on July 6, 1994, alleging that Citibank had engaged in redlining practices in the Chicago metropolitan area in violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), 15 U.S.C. 1691; the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3601-3619; the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution; and 42 U.S.C. 1981, 1982. Plaintiffs alleged that the Defendant-bank rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories. Plaintiffs sought injunctive relief, actual damages, and punitive damages.

U.S. District Court Judge Ruben Castillo certified the Plaintiffs’ suit as a class action on June 30, 1995. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 322 (N.D. Ill. 1995). Also on June 30, Judge Castillo granted Plaintiffs’ motion to compel discovery of a sample of Defendant-bank’s loan application files. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 338 (N.D. Ill. 1995).

The parties voluntarily dismissed the case on May 12, 1998, pursuant to a settlement agreement.
Plaintiff’s Lawyers Alexis, Hilary I. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Childers, Michael Allen (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Clayton, Fay (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Cummings, Jeffrey Irvine (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Love, Sara Norris (Virginia)
FH-IL-0011-9000
Miner, Judson Hirsch (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Obama, Barack H. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Wickert, John Henry (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-9000

They leaned on banks and when that didn't work they filed suit.

[Haylo]

Diekan, anyone could make a similar list about McCain. I know it, you know it and everyone else knows it. Ultimately i'm voting for the person who most closely mirrors what's important to me. You should do the same.

I don't think anyone on this board is deluded enough to believe that Obama is a savior. What we do believe is that:

1) He'll be better than McCain
2) He just MIGHT do a really good job. At the worse he can fuck us over like 8 years of a Republican presidency and 6 years of a Republican controlled congress. At the best he'll help start this country on a better direction.

Nothing that you're posting is going to sway me, because I already know that no politician's hands are lily white. Slinging shit at Obama is pointless because just as much shit can be slung at EVERY SINGLE PERSON TO EVER RUN FOR PRESIDENT. So what do you suggest people do? Never vote, never make a choice? McCain has been a member of Washington D.C. Politics for 26 years. There is no way in HELL you are going to tell me that he doesn't have more shit in his pile than Obama. Come on now, it's just common sense. It's always the choice of who you feel is the best man/woman for the job, you have to make that choice knowing that you can never really know what will come of it. It's a leap of faith, it's always going to be that way.

[Diekan]

I don't disagree with the fact that McCain has dirty hands too.

In fact, in the name of fairness...

Allow me to introduce you to a little history regarding one Senator John McCain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

Read through that link and you'll that he was himself involved in shady dealings.

Like Obama, McCain has dirt in his personal life as well - literally - according to accusations:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/2 ... 87690.html

So, no McCain is no saint - and I am glad to see an Obama supporter admit that [he] is not perfect.

I have no issue with you making your choice to vote for him. If he and his policies are what YOU truly believe in and YOU feel he is the best choice for the country and you have done your homework on him (and not just made your choice according to what MSNBC tells you - which I don't think you did) - then by all means vote for him.

My gripe is not with people who have decided to vote for Obama or McCain out of a commitment to their conscious. My gripe is with people who absolutely refuse to acknowledge that either of them (McCain or Obama) can do wrong (and we have a few on both sides on this very board). My gripe is also with ignorant voters who base their choice on bumper sticker slogans and news worthy sound bites without doing an iota of research - the same people who can't even tell you who the US defeated in World War II.

[Haylo]

I understand your frustration with blind voters. In the end it seems that it's always going to come down to who has more pros vs who has less cons. I have never voted and probably will never vote for a president that mirrors my views perfectly, it's just something that unfortunately has to be accepted.

Btw, I never watch MSNBC and I think that anyone who does is just as bad as anyone who watches FOX. Both are partisan vehicles and neither of them make any bones about it. I always watch CNN because while it's not perfect, it at least makes an attempt to be fair and show both sides.

[Arlos]

I never said that Obama is without flaw. That would be ridiculous. Indeed, he's done a few things I greatly disagree with, such as signing that most recent FISA bill, along with other things like his support for Bush's faith-based initiatives, etc. I merely stated that the way that video was written looked like they were trying to blame Obama for the current financial crisis, which is absolutely ludicrous.

Ultimately, financial institutions are largely responsible for this whole mess as well. No one put a gun to their head and told them that they should suddenly ignore risk factors in investments. No one forced Lehman brothers to hit a 35/1 leverage ratio, which was instant death the instant the market turned down in the least. No one forced predatory lenders to sell loans without doing ANY due diligence whatsoever.

Hell, a friend of mine, at the height of the boom, interviewed for a job at one of those mortgage brokers. They were beyond the pale in shadiness. Anyone selling loans is supposed to be licensed, yet the entire shop had only ONE licensed person. The people working the phones knew dick-all other than high pressure sales techniques, and once they sold a loan, the official paperwork was submitted in the name of the guy who actually had a license. They even took pride at how far out there they were. They told my friend that if he wanted to watch a movie that illustrated how they worked, to go watch Boiler Room..... insanity.

No, there's tons and tons and tons of blame to throw around on this one.

Personally, I am voting for Obama because I agree with his position on several issues that are important to me, and more of them than I disagree with him on. McCain scares the crap out of me, and I think he'd be a disaster, at least the 2008 version of McCain. If the 2000 version ran, the one who really DID act like he wasn't a Republidrone, I might have had a much tougher decision. That is not the McCain that is running for President this year, however.

-Arlos

[Martrae]

Mart, if you want to talk about advisors perhaps you should review McCains.

I know you're not voting for either though, so you've said, however I'd be curious who your candidates advisors are. I'd be real curious how involved they've been over the years with shit like this.

No one is innocent in the realm of government and the rich.

My candidate is/was Ron Paul. His advisor is Peter Schiff.

[Arlos]

An interesting point of view on what needs to be done from another nobel laureate economist:

http://www.time.com/time/business/artic ... 39,00.html

-Arlos

[Martrae]

I find it amusing that the Chairman of the economic committee that recommended the loosening of the CRA rules, which helped exacerbate this mess, is the one you think we should be listening to.

[Tossica]

You are full of shit Martrae. NOONE forced banks to give loans to people that could not afford them. Banks did that all on their own because they KNEW they could resell the loan immediately and turn a quick profit. Once it was out of their hands, they didn't have to worry about whether the people could actually afford it or not.

I'm full of shit, am I?

Case Name
Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank Fair Housing/Lending/Insurance
Docket / Court 94 C 4094 ( N.D. Ill. ) FH-IL-0011
State/Territory Illinois
Case Summary
Plaintiffs filed their class action lawsuit on July 6, 1994, alleging that Citibank had engaged in redlining practices in the Chicago metropolitan area in violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), 15 U.S.C. 1691; the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3601-3619; the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution; and 42 U.S.C. 1981, 1982. Plaintiffs alleged that the Defendant-bank rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories. Plaintiffs sought injunctive relief, actual damages, and punitive damages.

U.S. District Court Judge Ruben Castillo certified the Plaintiffs’ suit as a class action on June 30, 1995. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 322 (N.D. Ill. 1995). Also on June 30, Judge Castillo granted Plaintiffs’ motion to compel discovery of a sample of Defendant-bank’s loan application files. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 338 (N.D. Ill. 1995).

The parties voluntarily dismissed the case on May 12, 1998, pursuant to a settlement agreement.
Plaintiff’s Lawyers Alexis, Hilary I. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Childers, Michael Allen (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Clayton, Fay (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Cummings, Jeffrey Irvine (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Love, Sara Norris (Virginia)
FH-IL-0011-9000
Miner, Judson Hirsch (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Obama, Barack H. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Wickert, John Henry (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-9000

They leaned on banks and when that didn't work they filed suit.

Read the BOLD text.

What did this have to do with ACORN again? You realize that was also 14 years ago right? What's so bad about catching a bank denying applications based on race? Do you honestly think that race is/was never a factor when deciding who gets approved and who doesn't? What the fuck are you trying to say again? Poor black people caused the crisis by forcing banks to give them loans against the banks will? Show me some fucking statistics that say what percentage of loans to poor minorities that banks were FORCED to give have gone in to forclosure vs loans to poor whites and the middle class in general. If you can't provide that, you are FULL OF SHIT and an ignorant parrot of the right wing talking heads.

[Martrae]

You really don't know wtf ACORN did, do you? They went to poor people and told them "We will ensure you get a house. Your credit is whack? No worries. We'll call banks racist if they don't loan you the money. BTW sign up here to vote. Sign up all your relatives, too. They don't live with you? That don't matter. You know Obama used to work for us, right?" Which is EXACTLY what they did.

For some reason you think anyone attacking ACORN is attacking the poor when ACORN was the one USING the poor for their own purposes.

[Tossica]

You really don't know wtf ACORN did, do you? They went to poor people and told them "We will ensure you get a house. Your credit is whack? No worries. We'll call banks racist if they don't loan you the money. BTW sign up here to vote. Sign up all your relatives, too. They don't live with you? That don't matter. You know Obama used to work for us, right?" Which is EXACTLY what they did.

For some reason you think anyone attacking ACORN is attacking the poor when ACORN was the one USING the poor for their own purposes.

If they were giving loans to whites and denying loans to blacks with the same income and credit backgrounds that IS RACIST! So what the fuck is your point again? You are sounding pretty fucking racist yourself right now Martrae.

[Diekan]

The case had nothing to do with race. Race was the card they pulled to put additional pressure on the banks.

They were making bad loans to BOTH whites and blacks who had no business buying a house. Before CRA people had to have good credit, a stable job and a reasonable down payment for a house - the way it SHOULD be. After CRA you could use your freaking umemployment check as a source of "income" to qualify. It was this idiotic notion that everyone "deserves" a house. No... You don't *deserve* anything other than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... they rest of it you have to EARN on your own.

[Martrae]

You really don't know wtf ACORN did, do you? They went to poor people and told them "We will ensure you get a house. Your credit is whack? No worries. We'll call banks racist if they don't loan you the money. BTW sign up here to vote. Sign up all your relatives, too. They don't live with you? That don't matter. You know Obama used to work for us, right?" Which is EXACTLY what they did.

For some reason you think anyone attacking ACORN is attacking the poor when ACORN was the one USING the poor for their own purposes.

If they were giving loans to whites and denying loans to blacks with the same income and credit backgrounds that IS RACIST! So what the fuck is your point again? You are sounding pretty fucking racist yourself right now Martrae.

They never proved the bank did any such thing. Just because they filed suit means jackshit. They knew the bank would cave and settle out of court to avoid the publicity.

[Tossica]

Yeah because noone would ever discriminate against someone based on their race. There's no history of that in US or anything so I can fully understand your position on this.

So Barack was forcing poor black people to buy houses they couldn't afford, forcing them to vote for him and was forcing banks to give loans to the "niggers" in hopes that the entire banking industry would collapse 14 years later. Yeah, I get it now. It's the poor peoples fault. Defend the rich and greedy, blame the poor. Brilliant.

[Martrae]

I really can't wrap my head around the way you think. And I'm glad of that.

It's a poor thing to see everything in terms of race.

[Diekan]

He gets it... he is just baiting and egging you on. And, you keep falling for it

[Tossica]

I really can't wrap my head around the way you think. And I'm glad of that.

It's a poor thing to see everything in terms of race.

The way "I" think???

YOU are the one that's claiming the banking industry collapsed because Barack Obama made banks give loans to minorities, not me.

YOU are the one that continually defends rich white America and condemns the poor, not me.

YOU are the one that is one layoff away from the poor house just like millions of other people yet continue to look down your noses at them because of the color of their skin. White people that are waiting in line at social services are just down on their luck due to a lousy economy but minorities that are in the same line are there because they just want a handout and are wasting YOUR tax dollars... oh wait, that's right, you don't even work!

[brinstar]

oh snap

[Drem]

martrae doesn't work?

[Tuggan]

she home school teaches her 3-4 kids probably more work than i would want to do.

[KaiineTN]

So Tossica, you don't think that legislation that put pressure on lending institutions to make more loans available contributed to this mess? Or you just don't think that such legislation exists? Sure, greed in business and stupid decisions in the private sector played their part, but the root cause of the problem was legislation that was intended to increase home ownership, which sounded good on paper and got people elected. It was all part of the political game, just as fixing the problem it caused is part of that same game today.