Roflz... now even Fox News is throwing Palin under the bus

[vonkaar]

PALIN 2012 LETS GO!!!

[brinstar]

"...didn't know that Africa is a continent, rather than a country just in itself..."

wow, i knew she was dumb, but... THE FUCK???

[vonkaar]

I liked the NAFTA bit...

[Haylo]

Yea when I read that I became even more convinced that McCain ran this race as a big fuck you to his party for what Rove and crew did to him in 2000. Otherwise I just can not fathom what the fuck he and his staff were thinking when they picked this chick.

[Tikker]

could be

he really didn't seem like he wanted to win

[Diekan]

Yea when I read that I became even more convinced that McCain ran this race as a big fuck you to his party for what Rove and crew did to him in 2000. Otherwise I just can not fathom what the fuck he and his staff were thinking when they picked this chick.

Interesting perspective. Kind of goes along with my and Triv's thoughts that they lost on purpose.

[Haylo]

The truth is that as much as I like Obama, I did not want him to run and still wish he had not run this year. No President is going to do that well for the next 8 years. He may end up doing ok, and better than expected, but there are so many problems to straighten up right now. It's all a mess. The candidates in 2016 will have a much better chance of actually putting into place their own programs/plans/agendas. Much of Obama's first term is going to be spent trying to right the ship. If he gets a second term he can begin trying to implement some things but even then not much will get put into effect. I kept telling my family and friends that I just wish that Hillary had been saddled with it all, even though I truly supported Obama once he got the nod. I did vote for him in the primary but it was with the attitude of expectation that he was not going to pull it out and I wasn't too upset about it if Hillary won. Then she underestimated him too much and he pulled it out, who knew.

So anyway, I think that McCain put forth the barest freaking effort he could. If Obama was not a black man the race would not have been as close as it was. I bet Mccain was shaking in his old boots thinking he may pull it out. I mean really would you want to be a sick 72 year old man dealing with this current sack of crap? Seriously?

[Diekan]

Obama may not get a second term. Despite my dislike many of his policies there are some I do like. However, what's going to make or break him is Congress. This country is very much "centrist" as a whole and it's not overly tolerant of a government that is too far right or too far left. If Congress tries to force Obama to go all way to the left, I suspect it will destroy his chances in 2012 and cause a resurgence of the GOP for seats up for election in 2010.

I really think the GOP threw in the towel on this one long ago. My gut tells me that knowing how badly Bush has performed over the past four years, their chances of getting a GOP candidate elected were slim to none. This is why, perhaps, that Thompson pulled out so early and why they ultimately put McCain up to run, saving their best horses for 2012 rather than tainting them with a loss in 2008. Hoping that in four years (and they are likely correct) that the American people will forget what they’re going through now. Or, that Obama will have pushed so much of his socialist agenda on the country we’ll see the reverse in that they’ll vote for a GOP ham sandwich in an attempt to undo the damage.

If you really think about it, it makes perfect sense. Why would they have not run Romnie or Thompson? Why would McCain select Palin? Why did McCain do practically nothing during his campaign?

While the GOP has filibuster power, NOW is the time for them to pull their heads out of their collective ass and return to their more conservative roots. Bush, as you know was a RINO – that is a “republican in name only.”

They’ve got two years to change their image, rebrand themselves if you will. What’s interesting is that the black community is actually quite conservative socially but fiscally liberal. They need to rid themselves of this good ole boy whites only club image and start making a real effort to prove to the black community that they do care about their interests. If they don’t, the party will be dead in two years.

[Haylo]

Yes but can the Republican party get far enough away from the extreme right in 4 years? The current Republican party is just as much too far to the right as Pelosi/Reid are too far to the left. The Republican party needs to get back to being the party that they bill themselves as. For instance, when did it become a bad thing to be intelligent. When did people who are folksy and down home become preferred to those who actually had the drive and motivation to do more. I don't see the Republican party winning in 2012 unless Obama truly tanks it. Even if he does just ok, I think he gets re-elected.

eta, this is a post that someone made on another site I read, I thought it was apt.

Additionally, there has to be a way to separate from the Anti-Intellectualism that has soaked into the Conservative movement. Its wildly unhealthy and stifles new ideas.

You guys are Over Limbaughed. Rush has his place and can be valuable in that he acts as an anchor that prevents the Party from drifting too far off core principles... but in recent years its been Hannity, and Levin and Ingraham Savage and Gibson and Beck and Medved and at least one local clone in every AM talk market. Each version more intellectually watered down than the last.

Conservative Talk Radio is going through the same progression as Rap Music. You start out with Run DMC and LL Cool J (William F Buckley/Goldwater) Hit its high point with Biggie and Tupac (Rush and Reagan) and now wallow in the utter crap that it's become in Lil Wayne and TI (pick your moron talking head).

Oh yea.. and Neo Conservatism = "Gangsta Rap". It's massive oversaturation has pulled the center mass to the far right and it shrinking the party down to the "Angry White Christian Male".

[Diekan]

Yes but can the Republican party get far enough away from the extreme right in 4 years? The current Republican party is just as much too far to the right as Pelosi/Reid are too far to the left. The Republican party needs to get back to being the party that they bill themselves as. For instance, when did it become a bad thing to be intelligent. When did people who are folksy and down home become preferred to those who actually had the drive and motivation to do more. I don't see the Republican party winning in 2012 unless Obama truly tanks it. Even if he does just ok, I think he gets re-elected.

Depends on how he does, indeed. I ninja edited on you, so you missed my addition to the previous post.

He can't afford to try and take the country to far to the left. It won't work and he'll lose next election if he does. We also can't afford a president to take the country to far to the right either.

What I think will kill Obama's chances are if they seriously try to nationalize retirement, raise taxes on the middle class (which I firmly believe he will), or if energy costs sky rocket under his watch. He said himself he wants to bankrupt the coal industry and cause energy costs to "necessarily" rocket up. If he manages to do that... it will kill his career.

He really needs to stay as centrist as possible - which he can do. But, ultimately, it will depend on his ability to resist the pressure from the "moveon.org" type liberals.

We'll just have to see. I hope he does a good job, and if he does and our freedoms haven't been reduced even more than what Bush did... I'll gladly vote for him next time around.

But no one has a clue as to what he's going to do. I saw an interview with a D-congressman on CSPAN a couple of hours ago and he said "he" doesn't even know what Obama is going to do. Thus, I think it's a bit premature for you to already be proclaiming he's going to win again in 2012.

[Diekan]

As for talk radio... does it really matter what they say or who listens to them? If we are to truly support and abide the First Amendment then it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Your quote, by another posters, talks about "angry white man" - which I assume the implication that is that talk radio pushed whites to vote against Obama because he is black. IF that is the case, how is that different the black community voting for Obama simply because of his ethnicity? 98% of black voters supported Obama, do you really think the majority of those people voted on the issues? Not a chance - they voted for him for no other reason than his color. But, that's ok... but it's not ok for "angry white people" to vote against him based on whether or not they listen to talk radio.

Now, don't get upset - I am NOT implying those are your particular beliefs - I am reading into that paragraph you quoted.

I agree that talk radio can be venomous... but what about Air America? Have you heard the pure hatred coming them? It's actually disturbing. What about web sites like Moveon.org and this blog http://www.commonplacebook.com/current_ ... lican.shtm ? Full of hate. Full of venom. Why are they "ok" but talk radio is "evil?"

There is plenty of unwarranted hate on both sides of the fense, but to target only one side is completely unfair.

[Haylo]

Diekan that's a good point about most minority communities being socially conservative. It's 100% true.

The problem the Republican party is facing is that they are losing the vote of the young people of all colors, the "brown" people and the smart people of all colors. What's left? The old white people and the stupid white people. If they can not find a candidate that appeals to ALL people and somehow manages to project the same message that Obama did this year, than they are on borrowed time.

Obama is the politician of the future. He appeals to many different groups, because he projects the message of unity and togetherness. You can't win as a McCain or Palin anymore, I really believe that. Divisiveness failed and failed BIG. People didn't give a crap about all of the "He's different" stuff unless they fell into the previously mentioned pro-current republican party lines. They had better find a way to turn things around, that way is not to focus on what makes us different and special little snowflakes or "real rural americans" vs those dastardly city dwellers.

I'm firmly of the opinion that one party maintaining power for too long is a bad thing. One good thing that could come from a splintered Republican party though could be a third party that appeals to fiscal conservatives and social liberals. Or fiscal moderates and social liberals. Or whatever, but things do need to change.

Edited to add, I don't know if he's going to get a second term, I thought I put in the first post if he did. I just used 2016 as the example because I figure it takes that long to get things straight.

One last edit, the quoted post actually wasn't speaking as to why people voted the way they did at all. It was just characterizing the people who follow Fox religiously and had been posting some things calling even Fox liberal as "Angry White Christian Males". Also, do I think that a fair amount of black people voted for Obama just because he was black, of course they did. But do I also think that probably 90% of those people would have voted for whatever democrat was on the ticket, of course I do.

As far as the talk radio thing, most of the stations are dominated by conservative shows right?. I don't listen to talk radio so I can't really speak to it, but as far as websites, neither extreme side is right. The problem becomes when the party as a whole seems to echo that extreme. I believe that is a fault more of the Republican party than the Democrat party, your opinion may vary. Fox News was the worse of the bunch, even they themselves must have realized it because sure enough after Obama called them out their tone changed. Now I don't listen to MSNBC, because I think they lean to far left, but were they ever near to as bad as FOX was throughout this election? I don't think so, but again opinion will vary here.

[Diekan]

Diekan that's a good point about most minority communities being socially conservative. It's 100% true.

The problem the Republican party is facing is that they are losing the vote of the young people of all colors, the "brown" people and the smart people of all colors. What's left? The old white people and the stupid white people. If they can not find a candidate that appeals to ALL people and somehow manages to project the same message that Obama did this year, than they are on borrowed time.

Obama is the politician of the future. He appeals to many different groups, because he projects the message of unity and togetherness. You can't win as a McCain or Palin anymore, I really believe that. Divisiveness failed and failed BIG. People didn't give a crap about all of the "He's different" stuff unless they fell into the previously mentioned pro-current republican party lines. They had better find a way to turn things around, that way is not to focus on what makes us different and special little snowflakes or "real rural americans" vs those dastardly city dwellers.

I'm firmly of the opinion that one party maintaining power for too long is a bad thing. One good thing that could come from a splintered Republican party though could be a third party that appeals to fiscal conservatives and social liberals. Or fiscal moderates and social liberals. Or whatever, but things do need to change.

Edited to add, I don't know if he's going to get a second term, I thought I put in the first post if he did. I just used 2016 as the example because I figure it takes that long to get things straight.

I think that’s a reasonable and accurate position to take. The GOP does indeed to rebrand themselves as an all inclusive party or it’s over. Gen X and Y are coming of age and most of us couldn’t care less about a person’s color or heritage. 20 years ago I couldn’t date a Latin woman without getting little “looks” here and there. Now? No one looks twice. Our generations are coming of age and the GOP needs to evolve.

[Arlos]

That was the thing about Palin, really. She was immensely appealing to the ultra-right wing "base" of the party, the ones in bed with the radical religious right, etc. The problem is, she was a huge turn-off to everyone ELSE out there, and that "base" won't even come close to winning you an election, especially given the changing nature of our society.

In all seriousness, while we'll need to see how it really unfolds, but I think this election could mark the fact that the US is moving back to the left, and finally at the end of the "Reagan Revolution", and at the start of a new era. The country has seen what was the result of the GOP having unfettered control for 6 years, and how much a mess it has made of our economy, world standing, etc. Indeed, Bush's policies were much the same as Reagan's, if you really look at them: adventuresome military, massive deficit spending (just look at what happened to the deficit under Reagan), and complete devotion to trickle-down economics, and a complete hands-off attitude towards the markets. Obviously, as we have seen this year, the end result of such policies is disaster.

If Obama and the Democrats in congress can deliver even half of what Obama has promised, hell, if they can even just get the economy turned around, we could be looking at a real long-term shift of power. In all this, if the GOP doesn't wake up and start being more inclusive instead of exclusive, they are going to, at best, end up a minor party as a vigorous new party that IS inclusive rises up.

-Arlos

[Diekan]

As far as the talk radio thing, most of the stations are dominated by conservative shows right?. I don't listen to talk radio so I can't really speak to it, but as far as websites, neither extreme side is right. The problem becomes when the party as a whole seems to echo that extreme. I believe that is a fault more of the Republican party than the Democrat party, your opinion may vary. Fox News was the worse of the bunch, even they themselves must have realized it because sure enough after Obama called them out their tone changed. Now I don't listen to MSNBC, because I think they lean to far left, but were they ever near to as bad as FOX was throughout this election? I don't think so, but again opinion will vary here.

They are indeed dominated by conservative shows because that's what sells. If they had no audience (aka advertising base) they'd be out of business.

MSNBC really was worse than Fox. They had people actually saying that "Obama gave them chills running up and down their legs" and would ONLY show the bad side of McCain.

BUT - regardless of how I feel about either the "talk radios" or the "MSNBCs" - I don't want ANY of them silenced. They have the right to exist and to cater to their group. I HATE the KKK just as much as a I do Farrakhan (sp) - but I don't want them silenced either. We cannot afford to silence those with whom we disagree. If we start doing that, we've lost one of the most fundamental of our rights.

Now – I kept mentioning MSNBC and Fox News… I DO think they have the right to say what they want, but I also think BECAUSE they categorize themselves as “news” stations they should be held to a higher standard in their reporting. The difference between them and talk radio (both Limbaugh and Air America) is that they don’t pretend to be news. Those shows tout themselves as entertainment.

[Arlos]

Any talking-head news show is by definition going to be at least as much opinion as it is "news". Especially ones that completely revolve around their "star", like Hannity, O'reilly, etc. You could probably include Olbermann in there too.

If you really want NEWS, you need to get it from more straight feeds. CNN Headline News is decent when it's just doing news, because the person at the desk is just reporting, it's not "their" show, and so they aren't bloviating like the big names.

Now, we ARE in agreement on one thing: Doesn't matter what crap someone spews, they have every right to spew it, as long as they're not, say, inciting treason or other illegal acts. Saying we need a change in government is fine, telling people you'd like them to start bombing federal buildings would be a No No. Of course, your right to say whatever you wish doesn't abrogate MY right to do the same, up to and including ridiculing you for what you have to say....

-Arlos

[Diekan]

That was the thing about Palin, really. She was immensely appealing to the ultra-right wing "base" of the party, the ones in bed with the radical religious right, etc. The problem is, she was a huge turn-off to everyone ELSE out there, and that "base" won't even come close to winning you an election, especially given the changing nature of our society.

In all seriousness, while we'll need to see how it really unfolds, but I think this election could mark the fact that the US is moving back to the left, and finally at the end of the "Reagan Revolution", and at the start of a new era. The country has seen what was the result of the GOP having unfettered control for 6 years, and how much a mess it has made of our economy, world standing, etc. Indeed, Bush's policies were much the same as Reagan's, if you really look at them: adventuresome military, massive deficit spending (just look at what happened to the deficit under Reagan), and complete devotion to trickle-down economics, and a complete hands-off attitude towards the markets. Obviously, as we have seen this year, the end result of such policies is disaster.

If Obama and the Democrats in congress can deliver even half of what Obama has promised, hell, if they can even just get the economy turned around, we could be looking at a real long-term shift of power. In all this, if the GOP doesn't wake up and start being more inclusive instead of exclusive, they are going to, at best, end up a minor party as a vigorous new party that IS inclusive rises up.

-Arlos

I agree that Palin appealed the ultra-right wing base, but therein lies their mistake. The ultra-right wing base would have voted for McCain regardless of who he had as a running mate just to keep Obama out. Had they been smarter they’d have found a more viable candidate to attract the “undecided.” However, as I stated in another post – I can only hypothesize – that Palin was a strategic choice in an effort to intentionally lose. Sounds crazy, but nothing surprises me anymore.

Secondly, I have to disagree that the country might be swinging to the left. Isn’t it the least bit possible that people, while still holding on to their centrists views, were just so sick of Bush and the GOP that they’d have voted ANYONE who didn’t have an ( R ) in front of their name?

Third, I disagree that Bush was anything remotely like Reagan, or held to Reagan’s beliefs. For example: Reagan would not have invaded Iraq – I truly believe that. Furthermore, also as I said in a previous post, Bush is a rino – not a true to form conservative. He never was. Trickle down economics worked in Reagan’s day for the same reason huge taxes worked in the 1950s. Companies weren’t outsourcing like they have been in the past 10 years. But I do agree that Bush took a hands off approach to the market. Too much of a hands off approach actually.

Again though, I disagree that the country over all is shifting to the left. Three states just shot down gay marriage… that alone should prove it.

[Haylo]

My last post before bed!

I concur with Diekan in that I don't think the country is swinging to the left, in a way. They are swinging to the left ONLY because they need to get back to the center. Well fiscally they are probably desperately wanting to get back to the center but in other matters there's been a huge push here lately on morality being the be all and end all of things and morality being redefined by the Republican party. Your morals had to match their morals or they just weren't real or good morals. That's what the country is swinging to the left of, or they will begin to head that way, but as far as fiscal matters, no, they are not going left, not in my opinion anyway.

Also I missed this point earlier, but Bush was definitely not a man that was a RINO. I would argue that he was a true current Republican in every sense of the word. The GOP is no longer the fiscally conservative, small government party. So saying that Bush with his spending and government increases was not true to his party is not valid because his party was doing exactly what he was doing. You can't be a Republican in name only if your party mirrors your every stance.

[brinstar]

some good points going on here

first, i think haylo is getting at the idea that a lot of people are nervous about obama just swerving wildly back to the far-left, and i simply don't see that happening at all. anymore, to win an election you have to be pretty centrist, and while obama (along with the senate/house) will indeed steer the country toward the left, it will be a RELATIVE left as compared to Camp Bush et al. in all actuality i would be surprised if we end up more than a shade or two left of center.

second, the "old white people and stupid white people" comment had me LOLing, because who did the reps trot out this cycle? an old war fossil and a mind-blowingly stupid woman that i wouldn't trust to pick up my dry cleaning (AFRICA IS A CONTINENT, YOU DUMB HO)

and third, "angry white christian male".... uhh...... remind you of anyone around here? btw i think it's cute that mr. WASP is dumb enough to come back in here spewing his bullshit so soon. wonder what the weather is like on MARS???

[vonkaar]

Strange that this is the most constructive political thread we've had in weeks. I was hoping for more Palin bashing =/.

Let us regress.

Fuck you Dieken, asshole lesbian hooter girl only went out with me once.

Tikker, go blow a goat.

Haylo, more like, GAYlo. HAHAHAHHAHA

Brinstar supposedly lives in Nebraska... that's like, by North Dakota, amiright? Asshole state. Nobody lives there, why don't you go tip a cow or something.

Arlos just plane sucks.

There we go... back on track.

[brinstar]

plain

[Zanchief]

plain

Oh snap he went there.

[leah]

lol "why don't you go tip a cow"

i gigglesnorted aloud. which is bad in such a quiet workplace!

[ClakarEQ]

While the GOP has filibuster power, NOW is the time for them to pull their heads out of their collective ass and return to their more conservative roots. Bush, as you know was a RINO – that is a “republican in name only.”

I havn't checked the numbers and I've not read the rest of this thread yet, but do they still have filibuster power? I thought enough D's won seats to trigger the 'nuclear option'.

[Diekan]

While the GOP has filibuster power, NOW is the time for them to pull their heads out of their collective ass and return to their more conservative roots. Bush, as you know was a RINO – that is a “republican in name only.”

I havn't checked the numbers and I've not read the rest of this thread yet, but do they still have filibuster power? I thought enough D's won seats to trigger the 'nuclear option'.

They do have filibuster power. Which is a good thing. It'll help keep some things in a checks and balance position. If they evolve and change their ways, or if Obama completely drops the ball then you'll see a majority of GOP in the House and Senate come 2010. If they don't, then you'll see them lose filibuster power and we'll all be in a serious world of hurt as it is never good for any one side to have total control (as pointed out many times in various posts on the board).