Tuggan wrote:It really pains me to see a West Virginia coal boy talk down on the unions. I'm sure you have your stories of the lazy assholes that take advantage of a system, but there are 100 guys that bust ass to every 1 guy that smears the image for the rest of them.
The coal industry should be more appreciative than probably any other when it comes to the unions. Once big business finally kills organized labor, don't think for a second working conditions, wages, and safety standards in those mines won't begin to deteriorate over night.
As for people that still harp about the quality of American cars are what I call the "talks shit, knows nothing". First, the huge majority of parts in the Toyota and Honda are the same parts you have in Ford and GM cars. Second, there have been huge improvements in quality standards, especially Ford. They have several vehicles now that rate higher in quality than Toyota, and even Honda. There has been an incredible media bias toward foreign manufacturers for the last 20 years, and apparently it is still going strong.
You sir, have obviously never been around a coal union. You have absolutely zero idea what the fuck you are talking about. Notice I didnt say fuck the auto union, or teachers union, or whatever, but I probably should have said 'fuck the coal union', because on this board you have to be super specific or someone tries to argue. I figured since that was the only union im in contact with, and most people here know that, that that would be taken for granted. So back to the point, you dont know what you are talking about. They even BRAG about taking advantage of the system. Everywhere you go. Sure, theres plenty of people that dont do it and are bust ass kind of guys, but around here, 10 to 1 want free shit and do it.
Now, notice i never said anything like the union has been bad and has NEVER done any good. Ive said it in other threads and ill say it again, they were much needed and saved god knows how many lives by making the working conditions better and all that like over FIFTY YEARS AGO, but right now, theres so many fucking laws in place and so many random inspections, it just isnt like it used to be with them. Its nothing to hear of a mine getting fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for the bosses and foremans slacking on their jobs. Especially after the Sago explosion, they wont hesitate a seconds worth to shut a mine down temporarily and make them fix substandard conditions.
The inspectors do their jobs, and they do them very well, and they damn well better be, because going into a mine for work, you KNOW there is a risk of serious injury or death every time you go in. You put it on the line every step you take, unsupported roof or not. You could put 500 roof bolts into a section, but if it hits a spot of bad top and slate, or a kettlerock (fossilized spots in the ground, very unstable, usually a stump or something), or you get to a bad rib (wall), its going to come down, or blow out. Ribs bust all the time, and other than listening for the telltale sounds and cracks and pops, theres no way to know. The walls of a pillar blow straight out and bring the roof down with it. Happens all the time. Hell, Ive come a couple feet from being killed a couple times even, and I dont even work underground full time anymore. So anyways, a slip by the MSHA and state inspectors can easily get someone killed, or a dozen people, in the case of Sago.
Yes, the UMWA played a major role in putting the current safety laws into place and getting the old companies to start putting some thought into it, but even, say, up to 15 or 20 years ago, theres just only so much you can do as far as safety and working conditions go. Its not like the inspectors work for the union, they are federal and state, so they have no say anymore as far as keeping mines safe. Thats why MSHA is there. The UMWA doesnt set the standards for the mine environment, MSHA and the lawmakers do. The UMWA is the one who even pushed the government to even get MSHA started, ill even give them the credit for that of course, But my point still stands in my opinion, they are outdated and arent crucial like they used to be.
As far as wages go, why is it exactly that most mines, not all, but most, pay workers more and give more benefit packages and bonuses than union mines do?
I guess youd just have to be around it. Not sit behind a computer and talk about it from hundreds of miles away in Detroit looking at pictures on the internetz of a coal mine and reading articles written by more news people who have never been around a mine, not coal miners. This union is just hard to explain over a computer. Im telling you, they throw so much bullshit out it is un fucking real. There may be 100 to 1 good workers where you are, and there are good union workers here as well, but I swear to god MOST of them you talk to will even admit it. I get a magazine that just a monthly newsletter little deal that gives updates on the industry technology, laws being passed, stuff like that, called Coal Age. They have sections in it where they show the top companies production numbers and all that, and you can tell by just looking at it, that non-union mines destroy the union mines in coal production. Its because those guys will WORK and do what they have to do and go for that monthly monster production bonus, not sit on their ass and whine and turn in shifts about everything on gods green earth.
godamn, I didnt realize how long winded that was. Sorry. Not much more I can say, your just talking out of your ass. Im sure you dont even know a coal miner.
