Barry's "Stimulus Plan"

[Narrock]

I wish I could punch Nancy Pelosi in the mouth and not get arrested for doing it.

[Gaazy]

Hate to say it, but I will actually be pretty surprised if Obama literally lives through one term. Not because of statements like the one Mindia posted, in fact I didnt really read through it, and dont really care. Its just the simple reason he is a black president. I cant even start to imagine how many guys there are sittin at home that would give their lives to go down in history as the guy who killed Obama. I even know a couple that Id say would lol.

[KaiineTN]

[Arlos]

Oh yes, we so expect to hear impartiality on left/right issues from someone from the CATO institute. Riiiiight. That's like expecting unbiased responses from NAMBLA about child porn.

-Arlos

[KaiineTN]

Did you just stop watching the video as soon as he introduced himself and immediately come up with that response? I always thought you to be the type that actually argues points rather than simply resorting to credibility/impartiality argument, or something like that. Seems like a Harrison move.

Please do educate me as to why what he is saying is incorrect from your perspective. Or, even better, tell me what you think are good points that he brings up.

[Arlos]

Their entire fundamental position is that "Government = Bad". Needless to say, that completely sets their opinion on anything related to government spending. Also needless to say, their position is hardly universal. There are at least as many economists, including Nobel Laureates, who have been asking for less tax cuts and more direct spending in the package.

Furthermore, their position that the government cannot create employment is nonsense. If the government pays to rebuild a bridge and contracts the work out, the construction company that takes the job is going to need people to work on the bridge. This is an especial point because the government has not invested in infrastructure in a very very long time, so much of it is crumbling, and bridges and roadways (including parts of the Interstate system) are in dire need of work.

Also, think about what happens if someone gets funded to take a re-training course, including enough money to scrape by while they do so. They may have no skills or be skilled at a job function that is almost impossible to find these days (like manufacturing), but give them the chance to re-train themselves, and now they are much more employable, and stand much greater chance of being able to find work.

There's also the issue that part of this recession (like any other) is being driven by lack of confidence among potential investors and consumers about what is going to happen next. Dare they invest in an industry when they don't know if it will tank? Can those companies raise any capital to grow themselves in such a climate? Assured buoying up of some sectors can increase confidence, increase investment, and help the turn-around. After all, if you HAVE money to invest, and can pick good targets, this is an excellent time to buy as things are cheap. Why do you think Warren Buffett is saying that exact thing?

I could go on and on, but then I remember that you consider even Jury Duty to be a horrific affront to freedom and decency, and proof that the Government has turned into 1984-style tyranny, and I ask myself why I bother making the argument.

-Arlos

[Drem]

But, just as with the election Obama can do no wrong. Evern if he DOES do something wrong the far left will just spout what Drem said - "Well Bush did this and that... and Bush Bush Bush..."

That's the problem tho. you guys seems to just ignore what the party you promote completely fucked up for a solid eight years. I'm not saying Obama's a miracle. You just make that assumption yourself. All I'm saying is that after about a month, Obama has done a few okay things and a couple weird things. Bush basically did bad things for the good of the people on a consistent basis. I know he thought he was doing right, and he's a human being like anybody else. In the end, maybe he saved us from a lot of terrorist damage. Time will basically tell. Maybe after things are de-classified we'll find out that if it weren't for Bush maybe we would've gotten part of country flattened or something like that. All I'm saying is Mindia's a little cry-baby. I just think it's sad when people only comment on negative issues. Why go out of your way to be depressing. All the reporters and stupid news sources you're straight-up quoting already do that

[Narrock]

Hate to say it, but I will actually be pretty surprised if Obama literally lives through one term. Not because of statements like the one Mindia posted, in fact I didnt really read through it, and dont really care. Its just the simple reason he is a black president. I cant even start to imagine how many guys there are sittin at home that would give their lives to go down in history as the guy who killed Obama. I even know a couple that Id say would lol.

That's the sad truth. I would easily vote for any minority race for president as long as they were conservative. Barry is the wrong guy at the wrong time, and his politics are going to hurt America.

[ClakarEQ]

You and the rest of your leftist ilk are hilarious. You think anybody who isn't on your political side of the fence is stupid. /Yawn. You are the ones who will finally wake up when your realize how badly Barry fucked up the country. He already started off very poorly.

You got that all wrong bro, I don't think righties are stupid at all, they are the opposing weight to keep a balance, I would never want our political arena to be just one party, I think 2 isn't enough as it is. I just think YOU are stupid as does the majority of this board. You are in a small minority regarding your opinion and that just goes to the point of how stupid you really are.

[Gypsiyee]

I'm not a huge Pelosi fan, but I don't see what's wrong with money going to PP. I don't think people realize all that PP does for people - it's not just some place people go to get abortions - PP helps millions of low income people practice safe sex. PP provides birth control for millions of people who can't afford it, thereby reducing the amount of abortions and foster children or impoverished children being brought into the world. They provide education and options to all women, young and old, who don't necessarily have the health insurance to obtain it on their own. They provide low cost or free annual exams, thus preventing women from dying from things like cervical and breast cancer that might go unnoticed if they didn't have a clinic like PP.

Detesting PP for no reason other than your biased religious stance on abortion is incredibly narrow-minded and selfish.

[Lueyen]

From a broader view I take issue with all stimulus spending which does something other than return taxes paid to tax payers. Yes that includes bailing out banks, businesses or individuals as well as granting money to various programs. I do not take issue with loans even if they are interest free, as long is there are terms for repayment (note that I would not consider "investments" where repayment was in paper that could ultimately turn out to be worthless with the note able exception of US currency). Federal Government spending for the purposes and powers granted it in the Constitution would also be acceptable, including some infrastructure projects.

In regards to Planned Parenthood specifically while I would object to money being granted to it due to the previously mentioned broad view, I also take issue with it on a more specific view. Gypsiyee all the things you mentioned might be wonderful and altruistic, but that was the cover story, not the actual goal for the original founding of Planned Parenthood. That original goal is still furthered to this day, albeit unknowingly or unintentionally for most of those involved with it. If you doubt that statement at all, consider the youtube link of Pelosi that I posted, justifying the monies being granted to Planned Parenthood.

Reducing government expense via reducing the drain on government social economic programs as a method of economic stimulus at best is pretty flimsly logic... I see it more as a circle jerk. The basics of her logic is that government is going to spend money on one social program to reduce it's costs in other social programs, and this is somehow supposed to promote economic growth? I suppose it will keep some people employed where they may not be otherwise, I guess if you can ignore the insidious nature hidden behind flowery speech such as "reducing cost" this might seem logical in a convoluted way similar to the logic behind hobbyist contraptions that would go through a series of mechanical exercises to hammer a nail into a board after filling a glass full of water (think of the way the gate was opened for Chunk in the movie Goonies if you don't get the gist of what I'm talking about).

Pelosi justifies money to Planned Parenthood as opposed to saving other jobs because it will reduce government social spending. Note that there is no difference between government spending money directly to provide medical services and government giving it to a private agency to do so, so it isn't just that Pelosi see's it as a good way to make sure women get cervical and breast cancer exams. The only way this justification makes sense is if Planned Parenthood reduces costs to a degree that the cost reduction is greater then the monies granted. In short Pelosi sees this as an investment that will end in a reduction of social spending demand due to a decrease in the number of people needing social spending, by preventing their existence or birth. Pelosi's reasoning only makes sense if you view Planned Parenthood as a vessel for furthering the eugenic goals of it's founder.

[Arlos]

I think most people know who Moody's is, right? I think we can safely argue that they are hardly some radical liberal organization, and are likely to be either reasonably non-partisan or right-leaning in their analysis, yes?

They did some investigation into economic return of various forms of federal spending and tax breaks, and found what level of return was achieved.

Some very interesting information there:



Notice that the GOP is being adamant in its arguments for the permanent tax cuts, which are shown to have the LOWEST return on investment as far as stimulating the economy goes. Notice that every single one of the spending options studied has a vastly greater stimulative effect than any of the permanent tax cuts, in some cases, 5x greater or more.

The full analysis, done by the chief economist for Moody's is at: http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/docum ... 012109.pdf

Very interesting stuff.

-Arlos

[Nusk]

what i dont get is conservocrats like mindia up in arms over a stimulus packate orriginally put forth by their hero former president shrub

[Nusk]

just so you all know, the millions set aside for family planning was to have this sign posted at every clinic

[Evermore]

Hate to say it, but I will actually be pretty surprised if Obama literally lives through one term. Not because of statements like the one Mindia posted, in fact I didnt really read through it, and dont really care. Its just the simple reason he is a black president. I cant even start to imagine how many guys there are sittin at home that would give their lives to go down in history as the guy who killed Obama. I even know a couple that Id say would lol.

That's the sad truth. I would easily vote for any minority race for president as long as they were conservative. Barry is the wrong guy at the wrong time, and his politics are going to hurt America.

Yes and Bush did so well for the US. If Bush and Michael Savage are your idea of conservatism...

[araby]

I just refer to him as the president. That's his role. He might have friends or family that call him Barry. I am neither. Mindia, did you go to college with him?

[Lueyen]

Below is a demonstration of how money granted to Planned Parenthood will stimulate the economy:

[brinstar]

lame

[Narrock]

That is like the stupidest thing I've ever heard come out of Nancy Pelosi's piehole... that money for planned parenthood is going to help stimulate the economy. She is such a retarded piece of shit.