How many of you actually realize

[Diekan]

Just how fucked we are?

I wanted to give the man (Obama) a chance. And, at the start I actually thought he was going to be a center of the road Democrat... but wow... just wow.

Setting aside the Obama lust for just one moment - how many of you have the first clue as to just how fucked we are now?

Bush has shown us what out-of-control spending can do. Now, with his first few weeks in office, the new idiot, is spending money... money that we DON'T have hand over fist. 9,000 ear marks. BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars in worthless bullshit that will do NOTHING to help this economy. Didn't he say "NO earmarks" during his run for office?

Now, he's wanting another 600 BILLION to start his socialist health care program... hello???? Where the fuck is that money supposed to come from? Oh, yeah, just start taxing the hell out of the ultra wealthy. If anyone... ANYONE... actually thinks that the money this man is spending is going to be covered by taxing the top 2% by 4 or 5% more percent is not just an idiot, but a fucking idiot.

Jobs are being lost at rates no one on this board has even seen in their life time.
The stock market is crashing in a downward spial like never before - and for the first time in DECADES we'll be below 6000.
We're on the verge of a DEPRESSION.

And what's Barrak Obama's answer? SPEND SPEND SPEND and SPEND some more. And it certainly is NOT for the benefit of job creation.

A lot of you went ape shit over the money Bush spent - but now that Obama is now spending and plans to spend more in the next couple of years than Bush did in EIGHT, you're suddenly quiet. Interesting.

I wanted to give the man a chance, I was hoping for the best. I really was.

But this is rediculous. Even members of his own party are starting to ask "What in THEEE FUCK?"

His number ONE job should be.... job creating and creating confidence in the stock market once again. Economic GROWTH, not spending money that our great, great grandchildren will be paying off. But instead of jobs, he's shelling out money for a lobster museum in Maine...

You Obama worshipers are in for a rude awaking.

Hell even CNN is starting to turn on him.

[brinstar]

not bad, you almost made it two months before flipping your shit

[Diekan]

Dude, you really dont get it do you?

Do you have the first clue of just how bad things are and how much worse they are going to get?

If you do, then tell me how the TRILLIONS of dollars he is spending is going to help this country get back on its feet?

Seriously, I'm not trying to bait you or insult you... I really want to know how YOU think this spending spree is going to help anything.

[brinstar]

nope, actually i don't get it at all

[KaiineTN]

That's Keynesian economics for you. It rests on the assumption that when an economy has gone stale and no one is spending, the government can get things moving again by massive spending of its own. There may be some truth to that, but I reject the notion that the government can spend my dollars better than I can. Also, with Keynesian economics, you're supposed to cut back in times of growth, but when we were growing, we still had spending on full throttle, essentially helping to lead us to where we are today, and an even worse tomorrow.

It's also sad how twisted things have become, how blame is put on the free market when what we had was certainly not a free market. The blame should be put on government and the Fed.

I mean, just consider the mortgage crisis that seemed to trigger everything. Whose fault was that? Banks? No. Home buyers? No, not necessarily. Quite simply, the Federal Reserve kept interest rates artificially low, creating and pushing credit into the system. If interest rates were controlled by the free market, then bank resources would have gone low and interest rates would have shot up long before the bubble could have formed. But, with the federal reserve creating an endless source of credit, banks have all the resources they want. When your resources are unlimited, why wouldn't you lend?

Sure, people bought houses they couldn't afford, and they should have known better. Sure, banks were too eager to lend to anyone in their lust for profit. But the Fed is the real culprit here by encouraging such practices to take place rather than letting market forces act as indicators.

Bottom line, we can't spend our way out of this problem. We can't reinflate the bubble. The only way we'll ever see home prices back up to where they once were is if we create enough money to cause enough inflation for that to happen, and with each passing day I can't help but wonder if that's the plan.

The government is not going to be the one to pull us out of this hole. We are. The states, local communities. Individuals. Entrepreneurs. The government can't do anything to help it happen other than make it easier for them by loosening federal regulations and lowering taxes. If we subsidize an industry, what will that accomplish? Malinvestment. If we push money into this program and that program, what's the opportunity cost? What would WE do with that money if we had it?

[Harrison]

The stock market is crashing in a downward spial like never before

I giggled.

[Arlos]

Keynesian economic policies is what got us OUT of the Great Depression. Look at the employment numbers from before Hoover came into office and after, and remember that Hoover followed the same sort of deregulatory hands off policies that the right is currently pushing. Unemployment went from 5% to over 25% in his term.

Then FDR came in, with massive spending, and unemployment fell during HIS first term from 25% to 14% in 4 years.

In any case, Obama has had what, a month and a half in office? The stimulus package got passed what, 2 weeks ago? Do you honestly expect something the size of the US economy to turn around in 2 weeks? Talk about low attention spans.

Also, it's NOT Obama who puts in earmarks, so why the fuck are you blaming HIM for them? Hell, he told congress to NOT put earmarks in, and they told him in so many words to mind his own beeswax. So, barring a veto, which would be suicidal, WTF is he supposed to do about them? Blame congress all you want for them, but it's hardly Obama's fault they're there.

Also remember, earmarks amount to what, 1% of the total spending in the budget bill? I'm sorry, but I can't get my righteous indignation going for 1%. Also remember the size of his spending bill LOOKS much bigger than Bush's because he's actually asking for the money for Iraq and Afghanistan up front and INCLUDING it in the budget, unlike Bush, who made rosier looking budgets that ignored the massive spending the war requires, and then just came along later and demanded extra money for his adventurism.

What really needs to happen now is to find something that will unsnarl the toxic assets at the center of this mess. I suspect what that is going to be is something along the lines of a universal reduction of the principal of all outstanding home loans by something like 30%. You do that, and suddenly mass numbers of people that would have foreclosed can now afford their payments, and so those assets become more solid, and far less people have home values less than their loan values. Yes, the loan-backed securities would lose 30% of their value, because of the principal reductions, but from everything I've read, those assets are trading at something like 80% less than their listed values, so 30% less would be a huge improvement. The only organizations that would lose money under such a scheme would be ones that have portfolios of ONLY good loans, and those organizations just about don't exist.

-Arlos

[KaiineTN]

Arlos, would you at least be in favor of more regulation of the federal reserve? More transparency? Less secrecy? Do you think we have a right to know how the Fed is using taxpayer dollars? Should the Fed be obligated to answer to Congress? Can we agree on that at least.

[Nusk]

alot of those earmarks come from the so called fiscal conservative republicans

[Narrock]

Barry is the biggest spender out of any president in U.S. history, and he managed to fuck us in just 6 weeks. lol Consumer confidence is WAY low, and investor confidence is even lower now (stock exchange) because they don't trust barry's stimulus plan. hahahaha Way to go Barry, you fawking asshat. Thanks for putting us in a deficit that out grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying for.

[Drem]

Obama is the resurrection of Jesus Christ come to save mankind

[Narrock]

Obama is the resurrection of Jesus Christ come to save mankind

Actually, Barry is more like Carpathia from "Left Behind."

[Drem]

damn i was hopin you'd just start ranting at me or somethin

[Narrock]

Nah, we're cool

[Eziekial]

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economic ... iracle.htm

[Kramer]

not bad, you almost made it two months before flipping your shit

can't help it....

[Evermore]

damn i was hopin you'd just start ranting at me or somethin

dont expect anything intelligent out of Mindia.

[Evermore]

Keynesian economic policies is what got us OUT of the Great Depression. Look at the employment numbers from before Hoover came into office and after, and remember that Hoover followed the same sort of deregulatory hands off policies that the right is currently pushing. Unemployment went from 5% to over 25% in his term.

Then FDR came in, with massive spending, and unemployment fell during HIS first term from 25% to 14% in 4 years.

In any case, Obama has had what, a month and a half in office? The stimulus package got passed what, 2 weeks ago? Do you honestly expect something the size of the US economy to turn around in 2 weeks? Talk about low attention spans.

Also, it's NOT Obama who puts in earmarks, so why the fuck are you blaming HIM for them? Hell, he told congress to NOT put earmarks in, and they told him in so many words to mind his own beeswax. So, barring a veto, which would be suicidal, WTF is he supposed to do about them? Blame congress all you want for them, but it's hardly Obama's fault they're there.

Also remember, earmarks amount to what, 1% of the total spending in the budget bill? I'm sorry, but I can't get my righteous indignation going for 1%. Also remember the size of his spending bill LOOKS much bigger than Bush's because he's actually asking for the money for Iraq and Afghanistan up front and INCLUDING it in the budget, unlike Bush, who made rosier looking budgets that ignored the massive spending the war requires, and then just came along later and demanded extra money for his adventurism.

What really needs to happen now is to find something that will unsnarl the toxic assets at the center of this mess. I suspect what that is going to be is something along the lines of a universal reduction of the principal of all outstanding home loans by something like 30%. You do that, and suddenly mass numbers of people that would have foreclosed can now afford their payments, and so those assets become more solid, and far less people have home values less than their loan values. Yes, the loan-backed securities would lose 30% of their value, because of the principal reductions, but from everything I've read, those assets are trading at something like 80% less than their listed values, so 30% less would be a huge improvement. The only organizations that would lose money under such a scheme would be ones that have portfolios of ONLY good loans, and those organizations just about don't exist.

-Arlos

qft.

[Naethyn]

Barry is the biggest spender out of any president in U.S. history, and he managed to fuck us in just 6 weeks. lol Consumer confidence is WAY low, and investor confidence is even lower now (stock exchange) because they don't trust barry's stimulus plan. hahahaha Way to go Barry, you fawking asshat. Thanks for putting us in a deficit that out grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying for.

Sorry, but GWB is the biggest spender in US history. By a long shot.

[Gaazy]

It is pretty hilarious, but you cant tell that to anyone. Everyones in denial and is too busy with the obama reach around. Theres a nurse at my group therapy that does the drug tests and shit (huge obama sticker across the back window, right above the huge coexist sticker) and she gets goin suckin his cock every single week. She doesnt even know what shes going on about because shes talking so fast about how much she loves him. After a couple minutes, the dumb bitch starts completely mixxing up what shes saying and undoing herself. Even the people who are still on drugs are like wtf is she talking about

[KaiineTN]

The man has good goals, but horrible means to attain them. He thinks he can permanently help others by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. Then again, that's what gets people elected these days. Dumbfucks out there actually want the government to give them everything on a silver platter, they feel entitled to have good healthcare, a top notch education, a good paying job, simply because they're American. Why would such a person ever vote for someone who says the Government should not be doing such things, no matter how bad things become?

Do you think our great grandchildren will be talking about our generation with pride? "Great Grandpa sure was great! In the land of opportunity he really made a life for himself with those food stamps and welfare. What ever would have happened without the State to support him?"

We're on a slippery slope, is all I'm saying. And no, I don't blame Obama, or Democrats, or Republicans, but rather the widely held belief that the Government should do something to fix every problem out there.

[Harrison]

Yeah, that's pretty much the reigning errant belief held in this country.

[ClakarEQ]

I agree with a lot of what your saying Kaiine, even though we don't often agree . We are in a bad bad way, and it seems our only options are lesser of evils with no option for "good". I fear for the future and what that brings, I can't say what Obama is trying or even what Bush tried late in his game is wrong. It's not like the guys are making these choices in a bubble, they are getting input from people who are least suppose to know WTF is going on. Right now (and for a laugh), you gotta have faith :P

[Gaazy]

I really, truly hope he proves my thoughts about him completely wrong and turns out to save the country

[Ginzburgh]

investor confidence is even lower now (stock exchange) because they don't trust barry's stimulus plan.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. haha.