This place might be cursed.

[Gidan]

What im saying is . If i was home and someone broke in Im not going to wait and see if hes armed or what hes up to and im pretty sure I would be in the clear to do so. You hear bang in the night find a guy and your going to ask if hes got a gun before you kill him ?

Nah when I hear noises in the house at night I grab my gun and start shooting.

Regardless of what you may think, if he turns out to be unarmed and you kill him, you will be the one in prison. Hell even if he is armed you may still find yourself in prison on trial for murder. You may think your in the right shooting away at anyone in your house, but be prepared to face the consequences of your actions.

Some of what Zan said really is true. When people have a gun, they get a feeling of protection and power. You may very well have some protection, that is if your can actually handle the situation should it come up. Yeah I am sure you think you can, however if you have never actually been in the situation, you do not know and don't try and argue otherwise, you simply do not know. The problem here is that having the gun, you are far more likely to put yourself into that position then you would be otherwise. At that point you are certainly going to find out. You just need to hope that you really will deal with it well because if your not able to handle it, you may have just thrown you life away for a TV.

[Tikker]

What im saying is . If i was home and someone broke in Im not going to wait and see if hes armed or what hes up to and im pretty sure I would be in the clear to do so. You hear bang in the night find a guy and your going to ask if hes got a gun before you kill him ?

exactly my point

people like you are 100% the problem

[Spazz]

Im failing to see how the will to defend my home makes me part of the problem. Im not the one running around with a gun killing people cuz my mind is cracked. Ive got a pistol the same reason i have a tire jack or an umbrella. Just in case.

[Gypsiyee]

I think part of what he's trying to say, Spazz, is that the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality is what the problem is. I know you live in an area that gives you a lot more reason for concern, but think about it - is breaking into your house really a reason to die?

you rarely know the circumstances at that quick of a glance - you wouldn't be able to use the self defense reason in court against someone who was unarmed. you'd be screwed for life, and you would've taken somebody's life who might not be as bad as initially assumed. death is a pretty permanent and unfortunate answer to something so simple as stealing a thousand bucks worth of stuff. there are ways to get stuff back, it's just stuff.. getting your life back would be impossible.

[Gidan]

Im failing to see how the will to defend my home makes me part of the problem. Im not the one running around with a gun killing people cuz my mind is cracked. Ive got a pistol the same reason i have a tire jack or an umbrella. Just in case.

only wish i would have been home on one time.

jump through hoops but not for the man I wish I could have killed.

Are you fucking kidding me hes a scumbag who deserves to die

The issue is your mentality in this, the only solution you see is use the gun, shot the guy, kill kill kill. You may think your gun is for protection, but you are talking about using it offensively rather then defensively. You sound like you want to go out of your way just to get a chance to kill a person breaking into your house.

So you have a gun to protect your house, what other precautions have you taken to protect your house that do not involve murder?

[Arlos]

And why is instantly shooting to kill on sight necessary? Threaten him. If he starts to raise a gun at YOU, then certainly, your life is now threatened, and you are justified at shooting to protect yourself. Otherwise, if he runs, you can let him go and be damn sure he won't be back, or if he surrenders, you can hold him at gunpoint while you call 911 and wait for the cops to arrive.

Being bloodthirsty and aggressively seeking to kill someone like you were posting about is exactly the problem that was being discussed. No one would argue shooting to protect your life or a family member's life, but as has been said repeatedly: Robbery is *NOT* a capital crime. Nor is trespassing, which is all he's guilty of if he's in your house and hasn't actually taken anything or tried to take anything.

Oh, and before you ask, yes, I once had my apartment broken into while I wasn't home, and I still feel this way about it.

-Arlos

[Hylissa]

the problems is you americans are whackjobs

where I live, there's probably more guns per capita that most places in the states, yet murder by gun is fairly rare

Heh, have you been watching the national news lately? Vancouver has had a shitload of shootings lately ... hell, even some young girl was shot and killed as she was driving down the street with her toddler in the back seat

[Harrison]

It disturbs me that people have become so complacent and soft that criminals breaking into their home demand more rights than they do.

[Gidan]

It disturbs me that people have become so complacent and soft that criminals breaking into their home demand more rights than they do.

They are not given more rights, however they do still have the right to live. A person entering your home does not give you the right to decide if they are to live or die, however if they make physical threats toward you, you are certainly within your rights to defend yourself.

I can gaurantee you that if someone broke into my home and for 1 second I though my wife or my children were threatened, I would do whatever it took to protect them. I accept the fact that I may have to answer for my actions, however I am more then happy to pay the price if it keeps them safe. On the other hand if I see some guy in my house with my TV in his arms making a break for the door, I am not going to provoke a response from the person, I would call the police, cooperate any way I can with them, then deal with my insurance company. The TV is not worth my life or the life of my family. Provoking someone who is not actually threatening you is only asking for them to respond in kind. If you do this 1 to many times, it will end up with you being the dead one. That 1 time may just be the first time.

[Spazz]

Yes breaking into my house over and over again is more than theft its terrorism. If none of you have ever been there you dont know what your talking about. And yes breaking into MY house is enough reason for me to kill you and id take my chances in court. No way in hell if i cought a guy breaking into my house am i going to ask him questions or wait to see if he is armed. Im glad you guys have so much concern for criminals lives.

It disturbs me that people have become so complacent and soft that criminals breaking into their home demand more rights than they do.

Thank you harrison and i really mean that.

[Spazz]

You guys make it osund like im talking about just going out and killing someone for no reason. Im talking about defending my home my family and myself not fucking murder. Shame on you people. Im not fuckin rambo but i beleive if you catch someone breakin into your house all bets are off. I would be part of the problem if i was out brandishing my peice and causing hell with it but im not part of americas gun problem becuase i am willing to defend myself.



Gid im talking to you right now dude. You got a young wife and a baby and your telling me if a guy broke into your house you would just go see if he was armed and hope for the best? I highly doubt it.

Its really simple , if you dont want your head blown off or to get stabbed or beaten to death or whatever dont break into peoples houses. You guys thinkings B amd E is just fine and dandy make me want to throw up.

Im going to ask one more time so I can figure out if anyone here knows what the fuck they are talking about or just talking out thier ass. WHo here has had thier house broken into and thier things stolen multiple times. There sense of safety raped ? and last but not least not just things but your own god damn dog stolen ? Anyone ?

[Gidan]

I have lived in NY city, I have had my place broken into, I have always been thankful that I was not there when it happened. To this day I do not own a gun and do not feel any need to have one in my home.

I will repeat this again

I can gaurantee you that if someone broke into my home and for 1 second I though my wife or my children were threatened, I would do whatever it took to protect them. I accept the fact that I may have to answer for my actions, however I am more then happy to pay the price if it keeps them safe. On the other hand if I see some guy in my house with my TV in his arms making a break for the door, I am not going to provoke a response from the person, I would call the police, cooperate any way I can with them, then deal with my insurance company. The TV is not worth my life or the life of my family. Provoking someone who is not actually threatening you is only asking for them to respond in kind. If you do this 1 to many times, it will end up with you being the dead one. That 1 time may just be the first time.

Defending your home is one thing, defending your home with your 1 and only course of action being deadly force is completely different. I will ask again, what else have you done to help protect your home from breakins?

[Spazz]

I disagree with you. You break into my house and im home you get what you get. I didnt ask for them to be there and im not oging to ask them to leave nicely. Im not sure where you live but im pretty sure up in these parts catching an intruder in your house is grounds to pull the trigger no questions asked. Its not about a tv or a stereo its about raping my place of peace. I think that is worth defending with my life.

Im sorry that you feel criminals should have all the rights in the world but decent folk who work hard for what they have should just have to suck it up cuz some scum bag needed a hit or couldnt afford his rent. Thats bullshit. I guess we are all human but who he is and his rights both cease to exist the second they decide to violate my safe haven. If these criminals wanted to have human rights they should cconduct themselves as human beings.

I must be a terrible person becuase i beleive anyone who breaks into peoples houses deserves to catch a hollow point.

[Spazz]

I will ask again, what else have you done to help protect your home from breakins?

I got new locks . I couldnt afford a security system at the time. I got a dog ( that they stole). I called and toldthe police it kept happening but they didnt care. Also your turning this back around on me. Its not like i could just not go to work anymore cuz somecrack head is terrorizing me.Im not the scumbag who commited a crime. yOUR BLAMING THE VICTIM

If a man breaks into my home why should i give him a chance to draw a weapon and kill me. As i keep saying i dont see anything wrong with killing a man who means you harm and if he forced his way into your home HE MEANS YOU HARM. Its not like im advocating going on on the street and just killing people im talking about defending my home.

Why do you think that some criminal deserves a second chance but that I or anyone else like me should have to take it. Your logic offends me. I hope the shit i went through a few years back happens to your family and we can have this conversation again .

[Spazz]

If i wanted to go out of my way to kill someone breaking in my house i would have laid in wait. What im talking about is what my legal right to do if someone breaks in is. I think murder is wrong gid but i dont think killing a man breaking into your house is murder.


Why is it so wrong of me to think defending my home by force is ok ? Im not advocating murder im advocating defending your own. We live in a sad society when im the bad guy for thinking the way i do i guess.

Im done with this thread. You go on and defend criminals rights to terrorize the innocent ill go feel sad for humanity.

[Tikker]

the problems is you americans are whackjobs

where I live, there's probably more guns per capita that most places in the states, yet murder by gun is fairly rare

Heh, have you been watching the national news lately? Vancouver has had a shitload of shootings lately ...

I do not live in HongCouver

gang killing gang is not really what I was talking about

but it does kinda make my point

handfull of shootings is national news here

[Tuggan]

the problems is you americans are whackjobs

where I live, there's probably more guns per capita that most places in the states, yet murder by gun is fairly rare

Heh, have you been watching the national news lately? Vancouver has had a shitload of shootings lately ...

I do not live in HongCouver

gang killing gang is not really what I was talking about

but it does kinda make my point

handfull of shootings is national news here

Then what are you talking about? The vast majority of gun violence in America is gang/drug related.

[Drem]

But the problem is caused by the culture that protects these guns like they’re a necessary tool.

That's the same as blaming money for theft. It doesn't make sense.

People kill other people for more complicated reasons as a society than your incredibly simplistic notion that the tool of murder somehow creates the problem by existing.

Actually my notion is hardly simplistic and would require you to examine the situation objectively which isn't something you're capable of doing.

If you grow up in a world were you fathers are taking you to the gun ranges every weekend, or bringing you out in the woods to kills some bucks, eventually one of those kids is going to take his gun obsession to the next level. It happens time and time again. If a pornstar has a kid, chances are they'll be a slut. If some wackjob gun nut that reads guns and ammo talks to his kids about how awesome the new glock so and so is, guess what, he's going to become a gun nut.

You have to ask yourself, what are you trying to protect? Is a tool that is going to make you safe (even though statistical evidents shows that guns don't adequately provide you any safety) or are you trying to hold on to a cultural obsession that does you know good at all.

ok i was going to bring up a point earlier but i was sure it'd get met with criticism etc.

i think personally that our gun problem stems from just that. this notion that guns are just like "whatever." no one takes it seriously. i don't know actual statistics on this, but i'd be willing to bet that a majority of TV programming is crime-based. whether that be a real documentary or a show like CSI or Dexter. the airwaves are flooded with shows about perverse murder and sick, twisted shit. i don't know what TV is like in other cultures, but i doubt you can flip through the channels and find no less than 3 shows at any given time dealing with a murder

when murder is so passe and commonplace, it's no wonder that lunatics and whackjobs start acting out their fantasies after watching an episode of dexter where the murderer sucks the blood out of his victim's bodies and leaves their bodyparts dissected in a nice pile in the middle of the park. that's really fucked-up, even just to write it, but that show goes there. and it does it so... normally.... i can't believe that stuff like that isn't influencing some kid that's holed up somewhere listening to Coil and drawing pictures of gallows or something fucked-up like that, yunno?

[Harrison]

Fucked up people exist. Television isn't changing this.

[Drem]

i know. i don't think it's even a huge part of the problem. but it's like a culmination of all this stuff. TV probly doesn't affect you and me, but i guarantee it affects other people. video games were all under scrutiny because of this and that's a legitimate concern too. while nothing like that affects you or me, i guarantee it affects someone else. and it makes them wanna take it to the next level while we're satisfied with killing in a fake world

or maybe it's the other way around. people that don't get let out urges like that in video games go and do it irl. who knows? it's a pretty complicated psychological problem and taking away one thing won't fix it... it's seeded too deep

[Harrison]

That's my point. It's far too complicated to pinpoint a singular reason beyond, "People are fucked up, always have been, and always will be."

That's why I laugh when people honestly try to say games like counterstrike have caused mass murders. Even if the murderers came out and said, "I killed all these people because I thought it would be fun like in counterstrike.", that wouldn't even be the problem. They're fucked in the head. The game didn't trigger anything, or even aid the problem along. That same person would have done the same thing 50 years ago as well, claiming something else.

People have always been this retarded. The difference now is when things like this happen it's widespread information and not an isolated event.

It's even ten times as funny to me when people blame the existence of an inanimate object as the cause for violence, and not the person with the mental problems. That's just retarded "logic".

[ClakarEQ]

I do think that violence and crime are connected and when there is ample opportunities for folks of all ages to see violence, then it is a contributor to the over all cause / effect.

I don't think any single game or show creates "murders". I do think there are levels of desensitization and this can inject thoughts that can confuse the rights or wrongs while watching or playing certain things. However I do feel folks that get swayed by this are either young and shouldn't be getting this exposure or are already unstable, i.e. mental problems so I do agree with you to a point Harri

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30109090/

The deal is, how do you stop "smart enough" folks that are unstable from getting weapons? I don't think it is possible.
Why and for who are laws created? Why: to establish a form of punishment. Who: Laws are created for the exceptions of our society, the non-norm folks.

So logic would flow to the next step, that being a law to stop the exceptions, e.g. banning guns. But this is not legal because of the 2nd.

So this also begs the next question, statistically, are there more mentally unstable folks today then before, e.g. 1 of 1000, 1 of 10000, etc. I don't have the numbers but if mental instability is growing, regardless of the reason, that would imply greater numbers of potential shootings, etc.

No real point to my post, just food for thought.

[Drem]

@josh

right, but everyone's also a victim of circumstance. if guns weren't around they'd have to actually have a skill and know how to fight. the point is that guns are easy.... anyone can kill someone with a gun. it opens up murder to all sorts of fucked-up pussies that would never get anywhere if they had to use a conventional weapon because they're too stupid/awkward for that kinda stuff. so people go out and buy a gun. because all they gotta do is point and click

@2nd amendment

fuck you. you were envisioned during a period of town militia that needed to be armed. the country's so different now....

[Harrison]

I still have a sneaking suspicion that shit is going to hit the fan so hard in my lifetime that a lot of people will be glad the general populace is so well armed.

[Drem]

i want a fallout-style world by the time i die