This guy has it 100% right...

[Harrison]

It's too bad no one will listen or give a fuck about it. I think that's the first time I've seen him say anything that made sense. (Newt Gingrich)

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=g1t96ul6zc

Edit: It's about kids and education, mostly.

[Arlos]

He has some valid points in there, but there are some things I disagree with, too.

Not all schools are like he described, or at least weren't when I was a kid. As I have said before, when I was growing up in Phoenix, the gifted program there let kids take classes at whatever intellectual level they were ready for. By halfway through the 2nd grade, for example, I was on like 3rd grade spelling, 5th grade math, and I'd finished the entire 6th grade reading curriculum, and they were wondering what to do next, as the next step in that area was junior high english, and there were some obvious issues about sending a 7 year old to a classroom of 12 year olds.

Of course, halfway through my 2nd grade year, we moved to Kansas, where the school system was EXACTLY like he described, where 2nd graders were expected to be learning See Spot Run, and by god, that is what all 2nd graders would be learning, regardless of if they were ahead or behind. Not surprisingly, within a week, my parents started getting notes that I was a discipline problem, because I was bored out of my mind.

So, he paints with too broad a brush there, most certainly. Also, think about this from a practical level: Do you know how much whining and ranting there would be from every single yuppie couple when THEIR drooling crotchspawn didn't get to graduate early, regardless of whether they deserved it or not? Just look up how much pressure schools these days come under if someone actually brings home a C. The Lake Wobegon effect has run riot. This would only exacerbate that.

Also, intellectual and emotional maturity are two different things. Someone could be ready intellectually for going on to college work, but not be mature enough to handle it. Hell, in high school, they gave us this standardized test every year, that showed what grade equivalent we were at for at like 10 different subjects. Like if you got a 10/7, you were at the level of a 10th grader that was 7months through the school year. The highest score was a 12/9, ie, high school graduate. As a freshman, I got 12/9s in 8 of them, and got all 10 as a sophomore. So sure, I was probably intellectually ready for college level work at 15, but emotionally? Not a chance. Other kids might be far more emotionally ready, but just not be that smart. So, while I think there is some merit to his ideas on leaving early, I don't think it's as simple as he suggests on how to determine who is and isn't eligible.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

So, he paints with too broad a brush there, most certainly. Also, think about this from a practical level: Do you know how much whining and ranting there would be from every single yuppie couple when THEIR drooling crotchspawn didn't get to graduate early, regardless of whether they deserved it or not? Just look up how much pressure schools these days come under if someone actually brings home a C. The Lake Wobegon effect has run riot. This would only exacerbate that.

Fuck them. I got kicked out of physics my freshman year because of that. The selectman's daughter was pissed I was in there making her look stupid, 4 years early. That shit is pathetic. She nearly died twice from overdosing since then. Junkie whore.

[ClakarEQ]

I will admit I didn't watch the link but just reading the posts I have a couple points

crotchspawn LOL first it was Brin with his over the top "cuntspawn" now you with your crotchspawn, WTF happened to "kids" /laugh

Re: OP, IMO schools are pretty corrupt, my kids go to a "blue ribbon" school and I won't go into what that is but essentially schools cook the books to better their numbers in order to obtain or maintain greater funding. Perhaps it was this way when I was a kid, I've got no idea, I was a kid :p. It just seems like money, greed, power has become so overwhelming that even our children are used as pawns in what I'll say is like a turf war for drug dealers.

Where the fuck are the folks that educate because that is their passion and desire in life to train and teach not to get secured health care, union pay, and the whole me me me thing.

IMO the schools are as corrupt as our politicians and the web woven will never be undone.

[Naethyn]

I agree with the Newt. The last half of school was a complete bore / waste of time and everyone knew it.

[Ginzburgh]

I dont even remember doing homework before college. I just busted it out 1 minute before each class every day.

[Gidan]

When I was in 3rd grade I was at about a 1st grade reading level and a 9th grade math level. The school system in its infinite wisdom put me in an advanced reading class because obviously I was just so into it I was reading all the time, and since I sat around and stared at the ceiling when in math class I must have been cheating to get everything right and I really just didn't get the concepts. After 2 years of bitching by my mother, she finally moved me into a private school. After 1 day of evaluation, they simply tossed out my elementary school records and started over with me. It took them 1 day of actually looking at what I was doing to see I couldn't read worth shit and knew more about math then my teachers.

If I have the money to put my children in a school like that, I will do it without a thought. Who knows where I would be today had I been stuck in that school system all the way through high school.

[Harrison]

I pray to God that I have enough money to put my kids in a real school like that.

[Haylo]

We kept praying and hoping and despairing because $25k a year for 3 kids just was not going to be possible. Then we went to an all area private school "meeting", which is really just a big shindig where they tell you about all the money they have. In the DC area the good private schools are plentiful and the money is rolling in. Most of the private schools told us that they have MILLIONS that doesn't get claimed by families that really need it, so it ends up going to families that can already afford the schools. We rolled the dice and applied to them and all of the kids got in. One thing around here though is that the pre-application process can turn a LOT of people off. You have to pay something like $3000+ total up front with various tests and fees (tests for a 3 year old!), but it's well worth it. You also have to apply multiple places so if you're impatient you're going to give up, don't it's worth it in the end.

My Niece and Nephews are now going to schools that cost more than a lot of people make in a year and thank god. Even though we live in a good area, and our Elementary school is good, our Middle and High gets a lot of students bused in and they are abysmal. The public school system is complete dreck. They don't even teach these kids basic facts anymore. It's all about teaching for these tests and trying to maintain the funding standards. You would not believe how many kids I run into who can't do their multiplication facts at 6th grade age. These are not poor inner city kids, but the schools just don't care, so there you have it.

Anyway as far as the video (sorry for the tangent!), I agree as far as you should not have to go on to HS and Higher Education to make a success of your life. Our country was built by people who did not have this so vaunted "Higher Education". If you want to be a teacher, why can't you go study under a teacher, read everything there is on the subjects you want to teach, take 1 or 2 tests and become a teacher. Why do you have to suffer through credits upon credits of classes that are never going to make a difference, just so that some college gets a fat amount of cash out of you. I hate this idea that suffering through HS and having the cash to go to the right college can put you so far ahead, when good honest work can't do the same. For instance I work at a SPED school. We have a lady who started working in the field right out of HS. She's been doing it for 15 years and is one of our best teacher's assistants, the kids love her, she controls the class and does a fantastic job. This year she's getting laid off at the end of the summer because she's not "Highly Qualified" and does not have a degree that they have now decided is needed. In the past year of school, we have had 5 "Highly Qualified" teachers come and go because they could not handle the high stress of the work. Who deserves to be employed more? I hate the entire system, I really do. (tangent again, sorry again!)

[Jay]

I like the direction that Newt is going in but I disagree on a few things. Adolescence isn't a product of the school system, it's a product of America. What's he's suggesting wouldn't just require a reform of the school system but of all of America. There gets to be a point where we have to stop blaming schools and parents and bureaucracies and acknowledge that kids, or crotchspawns as we have dubbed them, have to take personal responsibility in the things they do. America teaches us that if we're smart, we don't have to work as hard to achieve our goals. Why would Ginzburgh bother doing his homework the night before as the school would intend for him to do when he knows it's easy enough for him to finish between periods before his class starts. I think Newt's idea, while well spirited, just leads to people having more time to be bored with. Without our whole society offering multiple programs to early graduates, all this idea does is increase daytime television ratings.

[Ginzburgh]

And it depends on the town you live in. The public school my wife teaches at ranks higher than most private schools in the state. I think the average income in the town is over a quarter million though. Not sure what that has to do with anything, other than they bitch and moan and demand results, as opposed to parents in less affluent towns who don't really give a shit.

[Tossica]

Continue cutting funding to the public schools and then bitch when they suck. Brilliant.

I also love how retardlicans complain about the liberal agenda in the school system yet I don't see many if ANY of them taking teaching jobs. There's no money in teaching so you can be sure any money grubbing right wing fuckface is going to stay far away.

[numatu]

Continue cutting funding to the public schools and then bitch when they suck. Brilliant.

Per-pupil spending on education in the U.S. since 1930



Of course listing by pupil doesn't account for the total cost of education. The operating budget per pupil is 3 times the amount listed in the chart. These dollar figures obliterate any country's educational spending. If money alone were the answer, shouldn't U.S. students be at or near the top of academic proficiency? To the contrary, proficiency has fallen proportionally while spending has skyrocketed.

Clearly, fundamental reform is needed, as throwing more money at it is not solving the problem. Brand new ideas like the one in the OP's video are a step in the right direction, but far more needs to change before Presidents like Clinton, Bush, and Obama will send their children to public school.

[Harrison]

lol owned

[Ginzburgh]

There's no money in teaching

Eh... not true. Again, it depends on where you work but there can be alot of money teaching. On top of a very nice base salary, throw in private tutoring at 100 an hour, two hours a day five days a week and a 180 day work year and you start wondering why the fuck you didn't become a teacher.

[Drem]

Continue cutting funding to the public schools and then bitch when they suck. Brilliant.

Per-pupil spending on education in the U.S. since 1930



Of course listing by pupil doesn't account for the total cost of education. The operating budget per pupil is 3 times the amount listed in the chart. These dollar figures obliterate any country's educational spending. If money alone were the answer, shouldn't U.S. students be at or near the top of academic proficiency? To the contrary, proficiency has fallen proportionally while spending has skyrocketed.

Clearly, fundamental reform is needed, as throwing more money at it is not solving the problem. Brand new ideas like the one in the OP's video are a step in the right direction, but far more needs to change before Presidents like Clinton, Bush, and Obama will send their children to public school.

he's talking about schools cutting bands and sports etc, not the amount of money kids spend on materials. that number'll never go down

[Tossica]

Oh really? You mean things have gotten progressively more expensive since 1930? What a shocker.

Public schools have been systematically shut down completely and students consolidated, programs cut, etc for decades now. Funding is CUT almost every budget cycle on a local and state level.

And no, there isn't money in teaching, not real money at least. I have several friends that are public school teachers with one having been there for 15 years and she still only makes $50k a year. If she chooses not to teach summer school she makes even less. Sure she could pick up another part time job tutoring but her job is hard enough and the hours are long enough as it is. The base salary is hardly enough to convince most people that can afford to send their kids to private school to give up their salary and gets their hands dirty trying to educate the population how they think it should be done.

Bill Gates alone has done more to help fix the problem than our entire government has. Obviously throwing money at it isn't all that's needed but slowly starving it to death certainly isn't working now IS IT?

[numatu]

Programs are cut because the educational bureaucracy (non-teachers) demand more and more of the operating budget each year. The actual money spent on education is not cut, it continues to rise, and is far more than any other country on Earth.

The question remains: Since the U.S. spends more than any other country on education, why are U.S. students far below where they should be when compared to countries that spend far, far less?

[brinstar]

because of TV and ipods imo

anyway a) i went to a public high school and i turned out just fine and b) i am going to be a teacher anyway, fuck all ya'll

30k and good benefits is enough for anyone who isn't greedy

[Harrison]

30k and good benefits, only working half a year, isn't too bad if you ask me.

[numatu]

Not sure how it is around the country, but I suppose it's similar. In the town I grew up in, the salaries for school employees:

I think you have to go 1,000 or so people in before you get down to people making 50k.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbc ... 5531275747

[Jay]

Does that chart cover the changes in spending and income in general as well proportionate to that of the 1930s? Money isn't exactly proportionate to what it was in the 1930's. I can buy much less for a dollar than I could have back then.

According to the Census Bureau the average income in 1930 was $1970.00 and the average income in 2009 is just under 40k. We're making 20 times more money but only spending 3 times more per pupil is basically what that chart says. Not to mention the point that Ginz made, it also depends on where you live. I've lived in Chicago where theres a lot of funding that has to go towards security (metal detectors, private security etc) and then there's public schools in the suburbs that can afford to put a Palm device in every student's hands.

[Tossica]

The question remains: Since the U.S. spends more than any other country on education, why are U.S. students far below where they should be when compared to countries that spend far, far less?

Because American PARENTS suck.

[ClakarEQ]

Because American PARENTS suck.

30k and good benefits is enough for anyone who isn't greedy

We've got two winners, step right up to claim your prize.

Not being greedy isn't American. We are the people that gave greedy a new meaning.

[Ginzburgh]

And no, there isn't money in teaching, not real money at least. I have several friends that are public school teachers with one having been there for 15 years and she still only makes $50k a year.

Because American PARENTS suck.

Yeah, wow Toss you are full of generalizations today. Aren't you an American parent?

And teachers start at 50k here. Like I said, it depends on where you live.