Don't have time to read the 1018 page healthcare bill?

[KaiineTN]

Here's a good summary of some changes you can expect, as this, I fear, is likely to pass.

http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attac ... 072909.pdf

[Drem]

good

[Arlos]

Um, how, exactly, can they be summarizing a bill that doesn't exist yet?

It's not out of committee yet in the house, it's not out of committee yet in the senate either. There was an agreement on some issues within the Democrats just yesterday or the day before, and there hasn't been any published data on what that agreement WAS.

So yeah, the committees still have to change it in the house, then it has to go to a reconciliation committee to equalize the version from each committee, and then it has to go to the house floor, where it'll get changed again before it comes to a final vote. Then the exact same process has to happen in the Senate. Once THAT happens, then it has to go for reconciliation between the House and Senate versions. THEN it's a finalized bill. You want to summarize it then, be my guest. Hell, summarize the final versions that make it out of the House and Senate, but summarize something that doesn't even exist yet? Please.

-Arlos

[KaiineTN]

It will only get worse, I'm sure.

[Drem]

lol do you think we have a good healthcare system atm flink?

[KaiineTN]

No, we have a terrible healthcare system, but to me it seems that it's more because of things like people expecting insurance to cover everything, and those same people thinking they deserve the best treatment possible simply because they have insurance. People don't shop around. They don't want generic drugs when they work just fine. The mentality around having insurance drowns out competitive pricing. Why bother looking for the best deal when you're not paying for it?

If you think the government can provide a solution to healthcare, how about we let them prove it by providing it to our veterans first?

The government is already too involved in healthcare, and the more involved it gets, the less choice you'll have in your own care, the longer you'll wait for that care, and the worse the quality will become.

Literally everything the government gets involved in ends up going down in quality and up in cost. Why would healthcare be any different?

[Tossica]

No, we have a terrible healthcare system, but to me it seems that it's more because of things like people expecting insurance to cover everything, and those same people thinking they deserve the best treatment possible simply because they have insurance. People don't shop around. They don't want generic drugs when they work just fine. The mentality around having insurance drowns out competitive pricing. Why bother looking for the best deal when you're not paying for it?

If you think the government can provide a solution to healthcare, how about we let them prove it by providing it to our veterans first?

The government is already too involved in healthcare, and the more involved it gets, the less choice you'll have in your own care, the longer you'll wait for that care, and the worse the quality will become.

Literally everything the government gets involved in ends up going down in quality and up in cost. Why would healthcare be any different?

Shut up.

[Arlos]

Um, for the most part the VA system is incredibly good. Even Bill Kristol admitted live on the air that the VA health care system is a first-class government-run healthcare system. On top of that, because it is those people's lifetime care provider, it is much more focused on preventive care and wellness management, so it keeps costs down significantly. Not to mention, it has an overhead akin to medicare's 3%, as opposed to the 30%+ most private insurance companies run.

As to why people don't shop... BECAUSE YOU FUCKING CAN'T, is why. The ONLY people who can get non-employer health insurance are people who are young, healthy, and with no medical issues. Precisely because it is those people that a for-profit insurance company makes the most money on. So as a result, the only entities that CAN shop for health insurance are business in what they offer to employees. So, if your job offers health care, at best you have the choice of one of only a couple of plans, generally from the same 1-2 companies, so you aren't shopping at all. Oh, and you know the only reason that insurance companies accept people from employer-based plans? The government forces them to. If the government didn't, people wouldn't get health care at work, either, most of them.

We are the *ONLY* major 1st world western nation that does not have a nationalized form of health care for all of its citizens. What we REALLY need is a single-payer system, but that's not going to happen because people are misinformed and generally idiots. Ultimately, what it comes down to, is that right now, for-profit insurance companies have a financial incentive to not provide what people are paying them for, and to literally let people die rather than treat them. Think about that for a minute. Think about how you're going to feel if YOUR wife, or mother, or even worse child, dies when they could have been saved because some insurance company exec wanted to preserve his quarterly bonus numbers. It happens now. It will probably still happen even if we do get a public option in the new health care plan. It just won't happen as much.

We MUST have a public option, or we won't be containing costs. It's that simple. Otherwise, all we're doing is shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, and not really fixing anything.

-Arlos

[Drem]

No, we have a terrible healthcare system, but to me it seems that it's more because of things like people expecting insurance to cover everything, and those same people thinking they deserve the best treatment possible simply because they have insurance. People don't shop around. They don't want generic drugs when they work just fine. The mentality around having insurance drowns out competitive pricing. Why bother looking for the best deal when you're not paying for it?

If you think the government can provide a solution to healthcare, how about we let them prove it by providing it to our veterans first?

The government is already too involved in healthcare, and the more involved it gets, the less choice you'll have in your own care, the longer you'll wait for that care, and the worse the quality will become.

Literally everything the government gets involved in ends up going down in quality and up in cost. Why would healthcare be any different?

Shut up.

[KaiineTN]

Well, if we go down that road, I want the option to opt out of government healthcare and the taxes that go along with it. I don't want to pay for yours and I don't want you to pay for mine.

[Arlos]

And I wanted to opt out of my taxes paying for the Iraq war. Tough shit.

You know, ultimately you'll save money in the long run, even with increased taxes, right?

-Arlos

[brinstar]

Well, if we go down that road, I want the option to opt out of government healthcare and the taxes that go along with it. I don't want to pay for yours and I don't want you to pay for mine.

then gtfo

[Tikker]

I honestly wonder how your brain works sometimes flink

or doesn't as it may be

[Jay]

Well Flink if it's such a big deal you can see if health care is provided by your employer.

Oh wait...

[Drem]

lol wow

[brinstar]

haha snap

[Trielelvan]

What we REALLY need is a single-payer system, but that's not going to happen because people are misinformed and generally idiots.

Case and point made as follows:

Well, if we go down that road, I want the option to opt out of government healthcare and the taxes that go along with it. I don't want to pay for yours and I don't want you to pay for mine.

Seriously Kaiine, the thought behind your statement is precisely one of the reasons the current insurance system fiasco we are dealing with is making bank hand over fist while not taking care of the people who DO pay into it... right... fucking... now.
You just echoed what half the idiot representatives in session are subtlety using in their arguments to get the major function of this reform bill ousted.

[Drem]

if everyone actually working in the industry thinks it needs reform then i don't even know why we're second guessing it. oh, right, because decisions like this are made by people that have nothing to with and have never worked a day in the industry. decisions like this are made by people who care more about their pocketbooks than the other walking and talking human beings around them. because the prevailing mindset in this country is "fuck that guy he didn't earn it"

[brinstar]

drem you should look into process-relational philosophy

just sayin'

[Drem]

ok thanks

[Drem]

really interesting, actually. reading some book by C. Robert Mesle and all sorts of things are going "click", so to speak, as i read it

[brinstar]

yep that's the one i'm reading

cool shit huh

[Lueyen]

This thread has been reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

[brinstar]

cool

obama's a down-to-earth guy i bet he likes hamburgers too

[Drem]

he would probably drink a bud light with you