Massachusetts elected a republican to the senate? Holy shit.

[ClakarEQ]

Our right to vote MUST be protected and being dead means we can't vote. That is where "right" comes from LOL.

You can spin the constitution anyway you want for anything you want, just like the BS excuse to have guns.

I doubt anyone here thinks the GOV is the answer to all things and I bet most would agree that they will probably fuck up healthcare by answering to all the private sector concerns. But I don't see how it could be more fucked up than it is now, so if given the choice of keep it fucked up like it is, or let the GOV attempt to un-fuck it, then I'll go for un-fucking

EDIT

BTW, do you not get your mail? or is it you just want it for free? Lets turn that over to the private sector so we have to pay 1.00 to mail an envelope, that sounds wonderful

[Diekan]

You don't have a right to vote either dumbass. Learn the Consitution before you spew nonesense. Your state may have instituted a state constitutional right to vote in state elections, but there is NO federal constitutional right to vote.

You really are a dumbass... I usually just skim past your posts because seldom do you ever know what you're talking about.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060206/jackson

The SC held that there is no right to vote. Jessie Jackson Jr. has been fighting to include an amendment granting the right to vote.

Learn before you speak.

[ClakarEQ]

Ok fair enough, my choice of "vote" was a mistake. All I was trying to do was make a tongue in check reference, if you didn't skim my posts perhaps you'd know how to sense some sarcasm vs. literal. How about in order to have the right to bear arms, I must be alive. Is that better? That makes it work correct? As I said, I can spin it anyway I want. And geez man I must get your e-peen all in a bundle LOL, you seem a bit wound up, like a school boy getting to first base.

Anyway you are the one saying our entitlement to healthcare is out of control. As in it shouldn't be a right. That to me suggests you are the dumbass here.

So instead of being slanderous, can't you answer the question; Do you not get your mail?

[Arlos]

It's very simple: We have a right to life. Proper health care is an essential component to living life, and for that matter, pursuing happiness. Before you start quibbling, remember that the rights given in the constitution are interpreted broadly. (Remember, the right to abortion, which is viewed as a fundamental right up there with any other in the constitution, was based on the right to privacy clause in the 14th amendment).

There, happy?

-Arlos

[Drem]

nope he'll find some other excuse. blah blah blah government's bad blah blah blah

[numatu]

It's very simple: We have a right to life. Proper health care is an essential component to living life, and for that matter, pursuing happiness. Before you start quibbling, remember that the rights given in the constitution are interpreted broadly. (Remember, the right to abortion, which is viewed as a fundamental right up there with any other in the constitution, was based on the right to privacy clause in the 14th amendment).

There, happy?

This isn't a valid affirmation for health care. Nobody for over two hundred years thought the right to life meant the right to affordable or free (to the recipient) health care. The same is true for the right to abortion. While Roe v. Wade is officially law, it's still of course open for a future court to strike it down. Judicial precedent, especially recent ones, are never the same as constitutional amendments or even just federal law. Dred Scott of course being a perfect example of what happens when an unelected life-tenured judiciary has essentially a blank check to interpret the Constitution in their own personal view rather than the specified terms all parties agreed to at the time.

Affordable health care for all Americans is a noble cause, and I think it needs to happen. Even more noble though is crafting a bill that accomplishes that feat in a way that is sustainable long-term, doesn't cripple future generations, and encourages innovation.

Far less noble is using Constitutional or Declaration clauses to justify one's own personal views, morphing them in a way never intended, while doing the same in reverse for other views one doesn't agree with. Unalienable rights are indisputable; by using that reasoning, one tries to immediately invalidate any opposition to their idea or policy. It's disappointing and certainly unethical.

[Spazz]

Who in the hell is numatu ?

[Nusk]

in Austrailia it is illegal not to vote, Australia has a near 100% voter turn out

[Gaazy]

I usually dont bother to comment here, most of it at least, but I will say this. People dont realize really how much it costs to insure a company full of people. In 2009, I spent right around $215,000 to get my employees medical insurance throughout the year. When we started this shit, we said we would go bankrupt before letting the guys and their families go without. What a hard promise to keep. Some of the year having about 20 people, some of it with about 14 or 15. Last month when I had a couple guys complaining wanting their mileage to work paid and shit like that, then the rest picked up and wanted it if the others got it. Had a nice big gathering after lunch one day and told them to quit whining and acting like a bunch of kids and be thankful for what theyve got, told them that number, and watched their eyes get big and I havent heard another whiny word since.

But I sure as hell don't want those hopping idiots in our government to control it. They are too busy fighting for control of each other, why would they care about us? Dad had to have 12 inches of his colon removed with polyps at University of Virginia last month. Not cancerous yet, but it was imminent. It could have ended up cancerous by the time he had surgery had he had to sit on some waiting list and sift through the governments shit in search of peanuts.

And for the love of fuck, a little help with smaller company taxes too before we all go broke. Id like to see how they like their precious fucking economy looks with much more of this shit. Id have to get everything together and see to be sure, but off the top of my head I'd say well past a quarter mil on that end all said and done. Most people who have never been on this side of it just can't imagine the shit to deal with. Easily enough to have a CPA working 2-3 weeks of the month on just months end and quarterly stuff. And normal people wanting to START a small company? Good luck, not in this country without solid backing! I wonder if our government wants that at all

Rofl hard enough paying to insure my men, might as well pay for all the halfwit crackheads with 15 kids too while im at it!

[Arlos]

The thing is, Gaazy, the whole point to the health care reform is to LOWER those costs for you, and for everyone else for that matter. Also, nowhere in any of the current bill does the government control anything; it's all still done through private insurers, they are just forced to actually behave in a rational manner, by requiring them to take everyone, and not cut off benefits the moment you get sick, etc.

Also, you have a very skewed view of what happens when the government DOES run health care. Look at Medicare: no one sits around waiting on any lists at all. My dad is on full medicare, and all it amounts to is the government pays the premiums for his Kaiser plan. So he has the exact same access and care times as anyone else on Kaiser, but he's not paying the 2-3,000 a month it would cost him if he was on a private plan, if he could even get it due to his health issues.

Seriously, you've swallowed a fuckload of propaganda on this. Try looking into what the ACTUAL facts are before you launch into a diatribe about how the government running it would be some amazing horror show, or when you think the whole point of it is to make you pay MORE. The USA spends 17% of its entire GDP on health care, and has a huge segment of uncovered population, and many who ARE covered get benefits denied or canceled as soon as they get seriously sick. The UK, on the other hand, has a completely national plan where every single person is covered (and so you wouldn't have those health care costs at ALL since your employees would be under the national plan), and they spend 7%. Our system is fundamentally broken and NEEDS to be fixed. Period.

-Arlos

[Gaazy]

Oops, sorry, Ive got a bad habit about making a post, then forgetting this site for a couple weeks anymore, not much here to make me remember as much to check it heh. Wasnt make a post then leaving it with no response

Arlos, I will believe it when I see it as far as the health care system being turned into a bigger joke than it is now. I think it will turn into a bigger joke when they get their hands on it. Im not saying that something doesnt need to change and everythings fine, I just think they "smart people" in DC will jerk it off like everything else they touch. Left side, right side, blue side, red side... They cant do anything else right, what makes you think they will do any good with this? And dont say well what would you do then Gaazy? Fuck if I know, I dont even try to come up with anything. If ya cant swim, stay out of the godamn pool.

I think another part of it for me is that I dont think a lot of that 'huge segment of uncovered population' deserves to have another handout. Aw hell, Most of the fucks already get a free ride on everyone elses dime for always having an excuse of why they cant work or find a job, why not toss them some more free shit.