Coal Mine Explosion Kills 24 in West Virginia

[Griever]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/06/west.v ... tml?hpt=T1

Gaazy works with coal mines in West Virginia doesn't he? I hope he's safe.

[leah]

he is; he posted on facebook in the last 24 hours. i was worried, too. :\ i hope he didn't lose any buddies!

[Gaazy]

not even a half hour from the house. So far I will have 4 funerals to go to confirmed, most likely 5 once they figure out about these last 4, but imo they dont have much of a chance. I was there most of the morning moving equipment in from my shop to help with the rescue. One guy that lived is a couple years younger than me and used to work for me, I gave him his first job, and they called him out from underground yesterday to set a belt head at about noon, and he was at the drift mouth going back in when it blew. Ive been underground at this mine numerous times, as recent as 3 weeks ago. Honestly I dont think any of those guys survived the initial blast and had a chance to barricade. It was a huge, terrible explosion, and this is a huge, huge mine. They run a longwall section and 4 supersections, which means its one of the biggest producers in the country. Any explosion underground will be deadly. Think about it, when the air itself is so explosive, when it goes where does the fire go? It will eat up all the oxygen and spread to every inch of the shaft until it smothers itself out. Theres no where to go, and its so instant and concussive...I would say they didnt feel a thing. Its kind of hard to speculate on exactly what happened, and they may never know. It could be a million things. From a seal leaking over the idle weekend and a methane buildup igniting to dust from the face igniting. There are so many things that can go wrong and so many balances to keep in check its just hard to say.


And CNN isnt helping matters, but I knew they would start with it. Ooo they have a violation history this and that...guess what, EVERY mine has violations. You wont find a mine without violations. 103 violations is NOT a lot of violations. Now they did have 50 or so unwarrantable violations, which is a decent amount, but still yet every company has them. You can do everything possible to solve them, and the inspectors will find more. They have to, its their job and like a cop if they dont find violations they arent doing their job. Unwarrantable violations are bad though, that basically stands for a flagrant, negligent violation that is a huge fine.

BUT, I will say that Massey is notorious for putting production before safety, money before employee safety. These guys lives are a dollar number to that piece of shit Don Blankenship (go read some articles on him, he is a true son of a bitch). More than likely, this was a pure accident. And in this business, anytime you step underground, you know the risks and you know what can happen. Its the way it is and if you cant deal with that then you wont last long. But Massey has a crooked side to them. They are well known for all kinds of stuff from buying politicians and putting them in office (including a supreme court judge that Blankenship took on a cruise to Europe, look up Brent Benjamin) to bullying and bribing people. A few years ago they had a fire underground that killed a few people and during the investigation they found all kinds of falsified files and inspections, lies, and even some important documents "dissappearing" during the investigation. Still led to a bunch of criminal suits and there are a lot of guys still in prison for it. I would say there will be a lot of people hanging after this is said and done.

Theres something about the bond people in the mines have, but these communities are so close knit and small that something like this hits the area really hard, whether your in the coal industry or not. No matter who you talk to on whatever side of the fence, someon eknows someone hurt by this. My hat off to all these guys. They go crawl into a hole and dont get to see the sun most of the day to support their families. One guy was 5 weeks from retirement. Surviving 25 years working in the mines, to die a month before making it out. One lady lost 2 grandsons and a son yesterday. Just sad that it happens

[leah]

/hug

[Harrison]

When I read this on my headlines the first thing I did was come here and make sure you were okay.

I'm not sure if it's sad that this board has gotten that close or not lol

[Jennay]

Hey Gaazy, although I don't know you that well, I just turned on the news and immediately thought about you and came to NT as fast as I could. I am glad you are okay!

[brinstar]

echoing the above pro-gaazy sentiments

dude, please find a safer job

[Drem]

saw one of my chef instructor's posts on facebook and figured i'd share:

I'm proud to be a coal miner's daughter...and my heart always stops at times like these...bless you all in WVA and China and to all miners everywhere...thanks, Dad, for going down there many a day when I was a kid...soot still fragrant when you'd come home...scared when you had to go out in the middle of the night for 3rd shift...

....glad to hear you're safe you weird bright pink EQ monk

[Gaazy]

Hehe thanks guys. Its a sad time around here. Everyone knows everyone or knows someone through someone so its a big chain reaction that crushes the whole community. When one or two guys get killed its bad enough, but 25+? This area is like one big wake, everywhere you go. One of the worst parts is that they have only identified like 10 of the bodies, the rest are still underground and the mines gas levels have shot back up so the rescue guys cant go back in and get the bodies out. The heat from an explosion like that underground will have melted the flesh off the body for the most part, so I doubt theyll be too identifiable anyways. And with the 4 guys still unconfirmed and assumed missing, all those 15 families are sitting at the church waiting and grasping to a straw of hope. Unfortunately, the odds that those guys even survived an explosion of that size and ferocity is slim to none. But I guess people have to have something to hang on to /shrug

[Gaazy]

Interesting thing I just heard that may be able to put the concussion power of a blast underground like that into perspective. I just talked to a buddy that works mine rescue and he was telling me this. See there were some survivors at the start, mainly a few guys coming outside from shift change. There were 6 guys riding a 8 ton railcar inside to go start their shift and 2 guys in another car coming back outside from the section. When they met head on one tracked over to let the guys coming in have the right of way, and right when they did that was when it blew apparently. So the 2 guys coming out where tracked out in a crosscut of the mine, so they had some protection from the concussion coming at them. Both lived and one of them said that they went to check on the 6 on the track, but was confused at first because they couldnt find them. They started walking out then and found the 2 survivors with the car, SIX breaks back. Each break is about a hundred feet, give or take, with a maybe 10 -15 foot roadway in between pillars. The blast threw that 16,000 lb chunk of steel off the track well over 600 feet back through the mine. Imagine the force that would take! And these guys were almost outside, miles from the face and other sections. Just picture what it looks like at the face where the longwall is.


Still, to look at how far the industry has come in 100 years is kinda cool. About 100 years ago 362 men were killed in an explosion. Too bad its still happening in China ~ They lose more people in a day than we do in a year on average, literally over 20,000 deaths a year on average. Theyre like little slanty eye lemmings

I hope they figure out what happened, but christ it could have been so many things. One big factor im surprised they havent mentioned on CNN is the barometric pressure this time of year changing. We had a thunderstorm earlier that day which i know played a part. Whenever the pressures change like that the danger grows exponentially.

[Arlos]

From what I've seen on the news, that one mine had more unwarrantable violations in the first quarter this year than most mines get all year. So that right there says there were definitely corners being cut on safety. Everything I see on that Don Blankenship douchebag backs up your opinion too.

I did also catch part of an interview with one mine union official, who noted that none of the last many mine accidents have happened at unionized mines, that it's all been non-union mines, and the unionized ones have vastly better safety records and conditions. Your thoughts on that?

-Arlos

[Gaazy]

Yeah Blankenship is a piece of shit, truly. I really hope they hang him for this, which is their goal as of now once they start the investigation. Those guys who died are a number to him, not a person. He pushes his managers and bosses so hard for production that they have to cut corners to meet. A couple friends of mine work across the street at another mine and could barely get up to the mine from the traffic and Blankenship still made them work all night last night instead of maybe something productive in the rescue or whatever. Im really surprised this hasnt happened earlier. I wouldnt even know where to start on him. I think he was picked on in high schol or something and now hes getting back at the world, because hes nothing but a bully. Theres a saying around here, "Beware the long arms of Massey". But thank god this will be the end of Massey as we know it, their stocks already to shit. Another good example is Harmon Mining, go look that up. He bullied them out of their contracts and caused them to shut down, then bought out the judges and politicians and won the case when they sued.

Another thing about Massey that pisses me off to no end is how they treat everyone. No one can count how many companies hes caused to go under due to payment alone. Set them on net 30 payment terms, and MAYBE at 6 months youll get paid if you sell them something. Im one of the few people that refuses their business, I wont even sell them any machinery on COD terms. They can get it somewhere else, Id rather not even have the business at all. Everything from tiny hardware and general stores to decent sized supply companies, they bully around. Their slogan, and its posted in every Massey mine office and trailor, is "The Massey Way or the Highway", and they stick to it. If you work for them and you dont do what they tell you to, whether its a danger to everyone else in the mine or not, theyll fire you on the spot. If you are a vendor and dont do something the way they tell you to, they will refuse payment until the end of time.


As far as the unwarrantable violations go, yes that is a lot and more than most mines, and some of them were major, like the ventilation ones for example, but one thing youve got to realize is they can be big or as small and stupid as a small mistake on a map somewhere. If the mine was in as bad as shape as some are making it out to be, the inspectors would have put a D-order on them and the mine would have been shut down immediately on the spot until they fixed it. They do it to mines on a weekly basis in some areas. Federal or state inspectors can evacuate the mine on the spot if they feel its too dangerous to operate. So until they be a little more specific on the violations its hard to say really. Its also a really, really big mine. Fucking HUGE actually. A longwall and 4 supersections is one monstrous operation. I want to see what they are using as a comparison there, because theres not many operations in the country that size

The gov doesnt let shit slide anymore after Massey's Aracoma mine fire a few years ago. Basically what happened in a nutshell was a federal inspector came in, and found that the mine did not have stoppages in the right places for the escapeways and the ventilation was all messed up, which is MAJOR, and the mine should have had a D-order right then and shut down until they fixed it. Instead, the inspector called his boss in DC and ended up giving them 72 hours to fix it or they would shut it down. 9 hours after the inspector left, the belt caught fire. Because of those fucked up stoppages, the fresh air didnt ventilate into the escapeways, and the smoke didnt filter out. So when the miners went to evacuate, first they tried the primary excapeway and it was on fire, so they went to the secondary escapeway, but with all the smoke they coudlnt see and two guys died in the smoke and fire. After that, no inspector anywhere anytime gives warnings like that, if its dangerous, they shut it down. Now this was the incident i mentioned earlier where Blankenship deleted all those evidence computer files (and I mean professionally deleted, to the point that the FBI coudlnt recover any of them from the hard drives, so he had to have had it done on purpose imo) and all kinds of preshift inspections and shit mysteriously came up missing during the investigation. Pretty fucked up deal and in the long run they only had to pay a ridiculous little fine, in return for 2 guys lives', but im sure Don didnt lose any sleep over it.

As far as the Union stuff goes, Union mines do have a better safety record usually because theyre held to higher standards. I am with the Union on their safety views and all that and the basic thoughts behind it...but godamn, I cant stand union workers. They could get paid a thousand bucks an hour and it wouldnt be enough. You would have to come here and see what I mean I think, I swear UMWA guys are the laziest bunch Ive ever been around

Also as a side note, I think they mentioned it on CNN earlier, but to give you an idea of how much gas there is there, methane shuts the mine down at like 50 parts per million. Underground right now they are getting somewhere in the ballpark of 12,000 ppm. One breath and youd be poisoned past help and ANY spark whatsoever would set it off as bad as before. I bet anything no one will be going in there anytime soon, and those guys are dead, unless they made it to a chamber, which has such slim odds its nearly impossible that they survived the blast.

Bahaha im rambling, God I hate Blankenship and Massey. I know dozens and dozens of guys that work for them, and they pay good and the benefits are better than anything in the state, but you might as well not have a family or any toys, because they will work you like a fucking mule. But most coal miners love that shit, overtime is money money money, but whats the use in making it if you never have time to spend it?

[Gaazy]

And tomorrow the Westboro Baptist Church will be here to picket for a few days I just found out. What does a fucking mine explosion have to do with God and fags and catholics? Someone connect the dots for me, I guess im slow. I honestly wouldnt not be surprised or sad to see some of them killed if they do this. I dont think they know what kind of jungle they are walking into with that area. They tried to do this after Sago but for some reason they didnt come. As a matter of fact I had some buddies who were going up there when that happened to do something about it, and one of them, a boy named Jason Akdins, was confirmed dead in this weeks shit. Kind of weird coincidence ><

[Arlos]

Heard on the news tonight that one of the violations at the mine that just had the explosion was that the ventilation systems on 2 of the shafts that were supposed to be drawing in good air and taking out methane were effectively non-operational. Apparently it got fixed the same day the inspector found it, but the Massey foreman said that they'd been broken for 3 weeks, and he'd known about it.

Makes you wonder if something like that was going on again, where something was broken and they let it slide. If so, they are going to be completely put out of business by the lawsuits, I am 100% sure.

As for the Westboro church jackasses, do warn people to be a bit careful. They deliberately will videotape themselves, because the biggest way they fund their operations is suing people who attack them when they're demonstrating. They're experts at provoking getting attacked without doing anything legally wrong, then turning around and suing the pants off of whoever attacked them. Then they use the money they win in those suits to continue travelling around and doing more protests. So, satisfying as it might be to beat them into bloody pulps, be VEEERY careful, unless you really want to give them the means to do more of it.

-Arlos

[Nusk]

best way to deal with westborogh is to set up a stand across the street from them taking donations to be given to the families of the miners im sure there is a charity for that already.. oh and bonus make the donation in the churches name

[Harrison]

Heard on the news tonight that one of the violations at the mine that just had the explosion was that the ventilation systems on 2 of the shafts that were supposed to be drawing in good air and taking out methane were effectively non-operational. Apparently it got fixed the same day the inspector found it, but the Massey foreman said that they'd been broken for 3 weeks, and he'd known about it.

Makes you wonder if something like that was going on again, where something was broken and they let it slide. If so, they are going to be completely put out of business by the lawsuits, I am 100% sure.

As for the Westboro church jackasses, do warn people to be a bit careful. They deliberately will videotape themselves, because the biggest way they fund their operations is suing people who attack them when they're demonstrating. They're experts at provoking getting attacked without doing anything legally wrong, then turning around and suing the pants off of whoever attacked them. Then they use the money they win in those suits to continue travelling around and doing more protests. So, satisfying as it might be to beat them into bloody pulps, be VEEERY careful, unless you really want to give them the means to do more of it.

-Arlos

If someone was picketing a friend of mine's funeral. I would just wait until it's all over and then follow them home. Problem solved. That or a well placed rifle round through the chest at half a mile.

[brinstar]

yeah i try pretty hard to avoid hating people

but i would do a goddamned jig on the steps of the capitol if somehow the westboro nutjobs all got doubletapped

[Gaazy]

Thats the thing, the people down that way wont care. That area is a fucking jungle to outsiders or people they dont trust or know. All those mining counties are that way, the people are good down home people until you piss them off, and this is a good way to, and then youll get your ass whipped or end up in a ditch, and the cops down there will be right there beside them turning their head. Look at the environmental demonstrators down there all the time, theyre always getting jumped or rocks and bottles thrown at them and the cops just act like they didnt see. The protestors will get arrested along with anyone that does anything to them, but the protestors will sit in jail with a huge bail and the guys from down there wont get shit, its just blatant whose side their on heh. Hell some of the hollers down there you dont even have to do anything, theyll come out and pick a fight just for fun or to rob you just for being there, because they know the county and even state police dont want to investigate shit like that there because its not going to go anywhere. And doing something like the church is planning after families have losses like that might as well be a suicide mission if they go down there, but I believe they are planning the protests or whatever for the Charleston area. One of these days they are going cross the wrong people and theyll all get killed, and this might be the time, hopefully at least. And like Harrison said, you show me a guy down there who doesnt own a high powered rifle and I'll kiss your ass )


I heard earlier that there was an inspector at the mine 3 hours before the explosion. If it was unsafe, he should have stuck them with a D-order and its just as much MSHA's fault as Massey's. As much as I hate Massey, I don;t think all the blame will go to them. But until they do the investigation, nothing will ever be sure, theres just too many balances to have in check and too many things that could have happened. If I had to place a bet, I would put it on one of Massey's foreman falsifying air reports for the past weeks or months or however long, just like they did at Aracoma. Ill also bet there will be some conveniently missing documents and reports. Ill also bet that foreman sits in federal prison, and at least a few managers. But, thats the thing, no one can know, they could have hit a gas pocket on the longwall that ignited for all we know.

[Gaazy]

haha fuck ya what did I tell ya. One of those westboro cocksuckers went into a gas station in Whitesville this afternoon with one of his coal miners are burning in hell t shirts and 4 or 5 people jumped him and beat the fuck out of him, right in the gas station. A little while after a state police officer finally showed up and the guy said he wanted to press charges this and that, and the cop said What are you talkin about, I didnt see a crime done here, no one else did here either, and left. Theyre supposed to make an appearance at one of the funerals this evening, and there was a group of about 15 or so guys who left earlier to go down there and theyre nearby waiting. Not going to be a pretty evening for the Westboro Church if they didnt take this afternoon as a warning, they just dont know what they are getting into. A lot of those folks down there have nothing to lose, so they dont care about getting arrested, on top of the fact that a couple of the cops have already said theyll turn their back on anything that happens within reason. Serves the fuckers right, no one's family deserves to be put through this kind of disrespectful bullshit during such a time of mourning, I wouldnt wish it on anyone

[brinstar]

justice is finally served at the hands of the bereaved

no one will for the phelps wackos, guaranfuckingteed

[Jennay]

I fucking hate the Westboro retards. They call themselves Christians? I'm glad people in that town are taking them down a notch or two.

[Jay]

What I'm not getting is why the westboro guys are there at all. It was an accident that happened to coal miners. What's there to protest about?

[leah]

because god hates fags and miners are too tolerant of them so god took it out on them, duh. MAN those dudes are nutjobs. i'd venture a guess that miners in WV are probably just as anti-gay as the protesters are.


ALSO, i just saw that they found the other four missing miners. death toll now a full 29. sad day

[brinstar]

yeah their stance is that shit like this is actually proof that god punishes america because we as a nation tolerate teh gays

unfortunately they've long since realized that simply issuing statements to that effect from their wacko stronghold in topeka gets them MUCH less press than actually going to funerals and making their 5-year-old children hold signs that say GOD HATES FAGS and PRAY FOR MORE DEAD SOLDIERS

[Tikker]

ALSO, i just saw that they found the other four missing miners. death toll now a full 29. sad day

the shitty part of this one, is they found them in one of the safe rooms

aka the room you go to when some bad shit is going down

so they probably died a slow death of asphyxiation