Oh look another muslim terrorist on U.S. soil

[Spazz]

Your gun boner is the problem with the world. A society obsessed with guns is why there is so much gun violence.

Thats a bunch of shit. Me and my guns havent shot anyone robbed anyone or done anything they werent intended to do.

Id say theres so much violence becuase the war on drugs makes it profitable, Id say theres a lot of gun violence becuase theres a lot of desperate poor people with lack of opertunity running around here but i would not say theres a lot of gun violence simply becuase I own them and like to shoot.

[Drem]

Have gun control laws stopped criminals and crazy people yet? How many gun laws are on the books allready?Crazy people arent sposed to have guns allready and yet they still seem to get ahold of them how do you propose that we stop crazy people from having them while still letting decent people own whatever they want ? . I hate to use the slippery slope arguement but each time a new round of gun control laws get passed we get closer to not being allowed to own them while it has no effects on crime. Im telling you right now if a new law gets passed it wont be something as simple as no crazy people are allowed to have guns. It will come with an assault weapons ban , mag restrictions ,caliber restrictions silly thumbprint scanners that might get you killed when you need it and worse.

You're just talking out of your fucking ass dude. I even posted statistics IN THIS THREAD that prove you wrong and you're still all HUR HUR MY GUNZ

People like you are the problem, because you get all up in arms when nobody's even talking to you or about you. Where I live it's easier to go and buy a gun and kill someone than it is to get hired or take a bank loan. That's totally fucked-up and you're an idiot if you don't agree. Guns are far more dangerous than getting hired, so why don't they need references and background checks and misdemeanor checks and shit for guns? As it stands the only way you can't get a gun is if you already shot someone. And the problem is therein, the fact that we give people that chance

I just love it that despite us being at least top 5 for gun violence in the world, you guys still think there needs to be even less control. fucking absurd

you can look at a place like detroit where people get shot for looking at people wrong, or you can look at a place like compton where violence is more or less contained and then go and compare their gun laws to see why

you can also look at the manufacturers themselves for making serial nos. so easy to remove as being a major contributor. what you gun toters need to realise is that a lot of things need to happen. it's not just one thing. like OMG BAN GUNS!!!! that would never work tho.... and no one has ever said we're TAKING YOUR FUCKIN GUNS AWAY and no one's even suggesting it so i still have no idea why the fuck you're goin on and on about it like we are

[Drem]

but on a personal level, i will never understand the fascination with something so pointless

i have no idea why people would rather point click some gay piece of metal than learn how to use a katana and throw a shuriken

or shoot a bow and bust a huge 2hander

so much more badass

[Drem]

FUlly auto are not illegal you just have to jump through a lot of hoops and meet a lot requirements to own one.

i looked in to this because i didn't believe you at all and we're both kinda right

so the transfer of machine guns made after May-something 1986 are all illegal. but you can still legally purchase anything made before that date. and most states, including your dearest michigan, require the C&R license

as i've said time and time again, i'm not out to ban guns, even tho it's been proven to lower violent crime. all i'm sayin is we need some more checks and balances before people can get one. and no there is absolutely no reason to have a 33 bullet clip, i don't care what you say about that one :p

you even said yourself in that quote that machine guns have a lot of requirements and loops to jump thru.... why don't you think it should be that way for any gun? any gun can kill someone just as easily as a machine gun. if you're a legit person that can get a normal job you wouldn't have shit to worry about anyway....

[Spazz]

I would agree with you on 33 bullets being silly for a handgun and say that anything that doesnt fit the grip is silly but not in a rifle Id say 50 and under is fair for a rifle.I dont know where you live but in michigan you have to go to the police station and apply for a permit to buy a handgun 2 you go to the store and buy it and 3 you go back to the cop shop and register it. That is about is complicated as I want buying a weapon to be. How much more complicated do you want buying a gun for a non criminal to be? What requirements would make you feel better about guns ? I lost my job and i dont get to shoot as often. i dont know if i can make you understand this but shooting is relaxing and its one of few things ive found where I can just empty my mind as I go at it. Im not to big on hunting its cold out and i hate being cold. I like semi autos alot more than bolts levers and pumps. The shooting is smoother and reloading is easier. I also like doubble taps and having a second shot at the ready without having to move my weapon and break my eyesight. I said what i fear about any new checks and balances is that it will start a slippery slope to what you can and cant own first and then more restrictions and so on.That is why the words gun control cause me to freak out. I dont have a machine gun and even if i did i prolly wouldnt shoot it on full auto cuz that shits for movies makes your gun empty and kills your accuracy. Id like to own one one day as a collecter. Id like to know what its like to empty an entire mag in one burst and stay on target. As far as throwing stars and swords I think that shits cool but i dont have time or money for classes right now and when you live in the hood a glock will protect you a lot better than a claymore.

[Spazz]

As a follow up it has not been proven that gun bans lower crime. Look at chicago washington dc and the baltimore area and compton. All of these places are places where you cant carry and there are mag restrictions etc . You know what else those places have in commen? They all have some pretty scary crime statistics.

[Harrison]

Statistics are fun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlatio ... _causation

As ice cream sales increase, the rate of drowning deaths increases sharply. Therefore, ice cream causes drowning.

Too lazy to make a huge paragraph to tell you how wrong you are, so there you go Drem.

[Drem]

compton is not the same as washington DC. you can't lump them together if you never been there. i was born in northridge LA and have family in DC. the difference is insane. and the difference doesn't boil down to simple gun control laws

i know you'd laugh at statistics, since you live in a fantasy world anyways joshua, but maybe you should pay attention sometime and actually study what you're rambling on and on about like an egostical douchebag

like i said, i don't argue for gun ban. i have no idea what the fuck you faggots are defending here

but its awesome how right zanchief is about your gun boners lol

[Arlos]

Why in hell would you need a 50 round clip in a rifle, unless you're planning on shooting a bunch of people? You're not going to use it hunting, since you're not about to mow down an entire herd of deer at once. You sure as hell don't want it for target shooting, as the extra unbalanced weight can throw off your aim. (notice military sniper rifles don't have 50-round banana clips.) You're not going to use it in home defense either, that's just nonsense.

No, there is NO legitimate purpose other than "I want it because I think it's nifty" for any weapon, handgun or rifle, to have more than a 10-12 round clip. Period.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

What about, "I have fun shooting them at the range because there is no other practical use for them other than entertainment?"

Why can't someone simply enjoy doing something without being chastised for it and made out to be some drooling redneck with mild brain damage?

[Spazz]

Wow this is great its just like old times. How many times have you and I argued about guns over the years now arlos ?

Your right I think its nifty. Most rounds I have ever needed to drop an animal is 2. Did it with a model 1894 too wasnt even semi auto or rifle caliber but that doesnt mean an m14 wouldnt have been better for the job. Like i said Im not too big on hunting i just think shootings a good time. And you need more than 10 rounds for bowling pins and or anything that is based of speed and multiple targets. I dont know how many times i need to say this not all marksmen are hunters.If everything we did in society was based off of only what we NEED than why dont we make cars that stop at 70 miles an hour. Crashes kill a fuck ton of people and theres no need for a mustang or an audi that can reach those dangerous speeds.

[Spazz]

Why can't someone simply enjoy doing something without being chastised for it and made out to be some drooling redneck with mild brain damage?

Thats a really good point homie.I think it boils down to guns make people feel emotional. SOme people see tham as tools and recreation and other people see them as evil death machines. When you see it as an evil death machine your brain shuts down and you cant understand why someone would want one.

[Arlos]

Heh. Yeah, we have argued a lot, but at no time have I ever advocated taking your guns away. You DO have the right to own them, and yes, going out shooting can be fun. Hell, I took a shotgun with me to college my first time around, and local farmers would let you go shoot in their empty fields, as long as you cleaned up after yourself and were careful about what was downrange. So me and friends would go shooting out there sometimes. Oddly enough, I found that with pistols, I was more accurate with a .44 magnum revolver than I was with a 9mm Taurus, though admittedly it was a relatively small sample size. That is neither here nor there, though.

I just think that more needs to be done to ensure the safety of everyone around gun owners, and I am against public ownership of weapons and accessories that have no real purpose whatsoever beyond being able to kill large amounts of people in a short amount of time.

Now, for those magazines and use at a shooting range, fine, if there IS a use, I'd have no problem with a law that allows them, but ONLY at the range. If you want extended mags, you can have them, but you can't take them home, and must store them at an appropriate firing range.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Stop being reasonable. You're giving liberals a good name.

[Spazz]

I just think that more needs to be done to ensure the safety of everyone around gun owners, and I am against public ownership of weapons and accessories that have no real purpose whatsoever beyond being able to kill large amounts of people in a short amount of time.

See with that we could argue practical and purpose all day and neither of us would ever think we were wrong.

Now, for those magazines and use at a shooting range, fine, if there IS a use, I'd have no problem with a law that allows them, but ONLY at the range. If you want extended mags, you can have them, but you can't take them home, and must store them at an appropriate firing range.

That I dont think is reasonable at all. I dont like shotguns half as much as I like rifles and I want as many shots as possible before i need to reload. A good size mag is just practical to me. 20 or 30 shots ( military issue) is reasonable to me for a rifle.Why should i be treated like a criminal or a mass shooter. Ive owned my guns for years and ive never done a thing to make anyone feel unsafe Ive never threatened anyone with them and the 2 times ive drawn any sane person probibly would have agreed with me. Why should I be treated like some kind of wacko killer becuase YOU feel uncomfortable.

And yea that .44 is prolly the most fun handgun you can shoot. I might actually have a gun boner for my SW 629.

[Arlos]

That I dont think is reasonable at all. I dont like shotguns half as much as I like rifles and I want as many shots as possible before i need to reload. A good size mag is just practical to me. 20 or 30 shots ( military issue) is reasonable to me for a rifle.

Ahhh, but you already said you like doing that shooting at a range. So what would the downside be to owning those mags, but storing them at the range you go to? I mean, you're not going to be firing off those rifles at home, right?

As for WHY, it's for the same reason we don't let people buy plastique or suitcase nukes of their very own: There is no compelling reason for private citizens to need any such thing for any legitimate purpose. You're not IN the military, why do you need to have military weapons at home? I'm sorry, but "because I like it" isn't a compelling reason. You can like it all you like, and hell, under my idea you can even OWN such magazines, you (and everyone else, mind you, I am hardly singling you out) just need to keep them at a controlled location such a firing range. You can then use them all you want, but it drastically cuts down the risk of a crazy person getting one and using it to wipe out an entire elementary school or something similar.

Seems a win-win to me.

-Arlos

[Kabakaba]

What up Arlos been years.

[Arlos]

Hey man, not too much this week, fortunately. LAST week, though, I was in the hospital all week with a lovely case of septicemia, was in the beginning stages of acute renal failure, and was within about 12-24 hours of going into acute septic shock and dying when I went in, so that was exciting. rofl. Beyond THAT bit of excitement, not much. Going to grad school these days. There's more info in the thread in Cap's Alehouse on current activities. How about you?

-Arlos

[Spazz]

Dont compare guns to a nuke arlos thats a bit far fetched. I want my firearms with me and that includes the mags. Maybe ill go up north and shoot on friends property maybe my house will be attacked by multiple people or maybe I just like to look at them, maybe i feel unsafe in my neighborhood and packing more heat than the sun makes me feel a lot more secure and gives me a peace of mind. I should not have to store my property away from me becuase it makes you feel uncomfortable. I should not have to justify the things I own in a free country based of need. WHo gets to be the judge on need? Dont you drive a fast car arlos? Those things can be dangerous im not saying I dont want you to have it but maybe it should have to be stored at the racetrack. That is the kind of arguement your giving me and its bunk. The if it saves one life its worth it arguement is bunk. People have used planes to kill people should we ban them. People have used rented trucks to kill people should we ban them? A zillion fuckers a year die in car wrecks ( more than guns!) should we ban them? What this breaks down to is that YOU dont like guns, they make YOU feel unsafe and so therefore YOU would like to see restrictions placed on tons of law abiding citizens who havent and probably werent going to commit any crimes.

Like ive been saying for years if you want to change gun crime stats its not the guns that need to be taken away. Its an end to the WOD , easier access to a good education, and plenty of good jobs for people to be working at.That my friend is how you lower not just gun crime but crime in general.

Its fun to argue this with you and reminds me of the olden days but i dont think either of us is ever going to change our opinions.Neither one of us wants wackos to own guns that much we can agree on. Mine have saved my ass twice now in bad situations without ever firing a shot so to me it is a nessicary (sp?) tool of everyday life. Theres a chance i wouldnt be here talking to you right now if it wasnt for my glock so to me its a big fuckin deal. THe right to carry it is a big deal and the right to have as many rounds as it can hold cuz you never know how many men you might face down is a big deal. 4 dudes against one in an ally is scary as hell. A bunch of people trying to tear into your house is really scary . Oh and as far as call the police they take an average of 35 mins or more to get here so depending on them to save your bacon isnt really an option.I call em everytime the shit hits the fan and the incidents are long over before they arrive. If you live in a spot where you dont need to be ready at all times thats fantastic but dont try to make those decisions for me becuase we live in different parts of the world and face different realities. You think the people where I live are just going to give up they guns if we pass some new laws? They would just have an easier assaulting you in every possible way and they would totally be aware of it.

[Drem]

your justification for needing heat is that you live in a shithole. so why don't you just.... not live in a shithole

i think weapons are great. i understand wanting to feel safe. i've got more blades and blunt objects than i'll ever need, not including the ones i need for work. i just don't like guns i don't have any respect for the instrument. they give weak people the easy way out and i don't think anyone that fires one on another human being is tough or hardcore or resourceful or smart in any way

and yeah, of course more opportunities and ending the war on drugs would help. but so would things like... making serial numbers harder to remove. or not letting people that can't join the army be able to go buy firearms

i've already said i don't think they should take your guns away. over and over and over actually. so this is very lol to me that you're still defending yourself like i'm trying to

[Spazz]

The you im defending is gun controll folks in general. . A gun with its numbers removed is useless to me. If i have to save my life with it im going to be in deep shit and have to explain why i have a dirty weapon and I cant carry it on me. SO yea i guess make the number harder to remove as long as it doesnt mess up the gun that doesnt bother me at all. If I draw a weapon im not looking to be hardcore or manly im looking to defend myself or my loved ones so I can continue to live. I dont want to kill anybody I dont want anyone to kill me either. Your kind of silly if you dont think keeping yourself alive is resourceful. I hope if you ever have to defend yourself and your loved ones your blades will do the trick and i hope whoever your up against plays by the same rules but dont count on it. Weapons of all forms are cool, martial arts are cool , but if you come up across a few guys who are armed with pipes or knives or a gun your blades and clubs wont help you. Im pretty damn good but fighting 4 armed guys in a hand to hand situation or with a short range weapon is something that only works in action movies.

As far as where I live I own this house and all the money I had in the world got dumped into it. I have no job atm and I dont have a family to depend on. Its nice to say oh just leave but its not that simple.

There are a lot of valid reasons one cant join the army. Not all of them have to do with being crazy but if you make a rule that broad you will deny a lot of people there rights. I have athasma and I wanted to join the core but i got denied. Im still a good person and sane as can be I just have a disability.

[Drem]

dude i understand and i don't think what i'm talking about has anything to do with a responsible owner like yourself

i don't mean the law be like "you got denied from the army you can't own guns". i mean it like the way that guy got denied. because they thought he was insane and he made mention of drug use

and making serial nos. harder to remove has nothing to do with you. no shit you wouldn't want an unmarked gun. but you're not a gang member are you

dude what's that movie with the indian guy that never used guns? if he was 7 feet away he knew he'd win with his knife and if he was further he had other methods of dispatching. that's the kind of badass i like. yeah it's not realistic, but the mentality is badass

anyway i think the fixation on guns stems from that fact that the local news always covers murders over anything happy and 95% of television programming deals with murders in some form and lots of people dying and solving mysteries while most people scoff at "sitcoms" or anything that's just trying to be funny and realistic. also the drug war, for sure. we'd have to change a lot of shit to bring crime down in this country and putting a couple of stricter laws on the purchasing of firearms to ensure that they only end up in the hands of responsible citizens is just one small piece of the puzzle imo

[Spazz]

The problem is you and I wont get to make the laws. I am afraid that those in office now are going to go after guns hard and that im not going to like the result at all. I think if you get caught concealing a gun that isnt yours you should be in deep shit. I think if your a crack pot you shouldnt be allowed to by a gun. But who gets to decide whos a wackjob and who isnt? Ive met a lot of people over the years that I dont think should be allowed a weapon in the slightest gun or blade. But new laws if put in place will effect us all and I think it will be more along the lines of what arlos wants than what you or I find acceptable.

Everything on tv seems to based off violence crime and murder and i watch action movies but my fear for my safety doesnt come from tv it comes from living in it and seeing it every day. Id like to think the 17 year olds on the corner arent gonna rob me or mess with me becuase they are children but it doesnt work that way. Id like to walk to get smokes and not have niggas callin from porches WHO YOU CLAIMIN but that isnt relaity either. I really dont know how to fix the problem ive shared the few ideas I have but giving up the right to own weapons like some people think is the answer seems delusional to me. Im in lot of shit right now becuase a month ago i stepped outside and did the right thing. A week after that a kid was shot in my yard by a .380. I would love to take the guns from them but in the end I think the only person who would end up disarmed is me. Have you ever been the victim in a crime drem? It really changes the way you view the world. Ive had my house broken into multiple times , Ive had dudes try to rob me on the block,Ive been caught in the ally walking to 711 by a large group of armed men that thought I was someone else Ive had a kid just run up on me punch me in the face and run off. Im not ever going to let any of that shit happen to me again if i can prevent it. Only way I know how to prevent it is to protect myself at all times and try to stay out of the wars.

[leah]

i appreciate your efforts and acknowledge that we are all entitled to our own opinion; that said, however, i still do not see your point. sorry

[Kabakaba]

I sold my assault weapons 8 years ago when i still lived in Cali, that being said i like to stick to my Warrior roots i have a katana and an axe in my room for those special times when i feel the need to dual weild if someone breaks into my shit and two baseball bats that i'll dual weild when i want to feel like Arlos.