Have gun will travel to Oklahoma...

[brinstar]

in less words

fewer

PS lol 10sun

[Gypsiyee]

Cars kill like a bajillion people a year and I dont hear anyone hollering about banning them how dangerous they are or people needing mmore "training"

The obvious response here is that cars also serve another purpose and are absolutely necessary in most parts of the country. Guns do not, and guns are not. Cars kill people, yes, but it's not the intention of the car to kill. Accidents happen, misuse happens, but no one gets a car boner because of how much power it has to kill someone or destroy something. People do get gun boners for that, though. It's an insane comparison akin to comparing a couch to a refrigerator... they're not even in the same category.

Guns are a huge problem in the states, second only to maybe obesity obesity or self-righteousness. It's one of those things that people get rabid about on the premise of freedom, because we can, and all of these other stereotypical American absurdities we believe in. It's one of those "rights" laid out to us by founding fathers who never could've foreseen what the country would become or that many of their beliefs for the time would eventually be completely irrelevant. Our right to bear arms is such a subjective clause. The people who wrote that amendment were literally oppressed by the government and its military. We can speculate all day long, but based on basic history knowledge it's pretty safe to deduce that the intention of the amendment was to protect citizens from government takeover and oppression... not to have citizens walking about poppin' caps in each other for funsies.

Our government has evolved in such a fashion that the amendment no longer serves any purpose, and holding onto the right for uneducated and untrained individuals to walk around with concealed weaponry that can kill in the blink of an eye without without any necessity other than "ITS MY RIGHT!" is childish and ignorant nonsense.

Spazz, I respect that you live in a terrible area. I can't say I can relate because I've never lived in an area that bad. I've lived in bad neighborhoods, but nothing to the extent that you do. But you have to ask yourself if you honestly think that it would've ever gotten that bad if guns weren't accessible to the psychos who have them to begin with. It's a chicken or egg scenario. To an extent, you're right--taking them away from responsible citizens does nothing to remedy the situation. The problem, though, is that we're at the point that it's a cancer.. in order to squash the disease entirely, you have to deplete some good to get rid of the bad. If something isn't done about ridding guns from the general populace, I can't imagine what the US is going to look like in a century or two as the weapons get more powerful and people keep clinging onto the idea that they can have whatever they want and do whatever they want because some primitive white guys half a millennium ago said they could.

Let's be realistic, here.. guns wouldn't be the first bad idea the founding fathers had. I hate that we, as a nation, refuse to see their flaws, and subsequently the flaws in their ideals and decisions. These men, while visionaries in their time, were not perfect. They did not do perfect things. They believed and partook in some really horrible stuff. If we still followed every last one of their plans to a T, this country would be a sad, sad place today. They knew a much different world than we do... they didn't have the foresight to make the end all be all decisions for the rest of time, and we have to have enough retrospective to recognize that.

Guns have their place in hunting. They have their place at a shooting range. But they have no place in someone's home. They have no place on the floorboard of a car of someone who has road rage, and they have no place down the back of some dipshit's pants. They're more trouble than they're worth and bring nothing positive to the table. The reasoning behind keeping them around is purely political--no politician wants to touch the subject lest they alienate potential voters. I look forward to the day that someone has the balls to do something about it.

[Harrison]

But they have no place in someone's home.

This is where we're just going to have to agree to disagree. There is no way we're going to talk each other down from this point here.

In an ideal fantasy world it would be great if guns never existed. This isn't reality, though. So until this world comes to be, I feel very strongly that the civilian populace in general should be armed. *shrug*

[Lyion]

This is a discussion on what we'd like, not what reality is. I think if any of us lived in Beirut Detroit like Spazz, we'd consider packing. That does not change the point if there weren't so many guns here, we wouldn't have the issues we do in so many places.

[Drem]

But they have no place in someone's home.

This is where we're just going to have to agree to disagree. There is no way we're going to talk each other down from this point here.

In an ideal fantasy world it would be great if guns never existed. This isn't reality, though. So until this world comes to be, I feel very strongly that the civilian populace in general should be armed. *shrug*

[Harrison]

Did you just agree with what I said in its entirety?

[Drem]

yes sir

[Gypsiyee]

Did you just agree with what I said in its entirety?

stranger things have happened! I agree with Lyion.. I'm not sure that's ever happened before

[Spazz]

Here is the problem. There are a lot of people and a lot of guns out there already. A ban wold hinder folks like me and harrison but it would not hinder gangsters and violent criminals in the slightest. I try not to think about dream wordls because they are just that dreams. Like ive said a lot of times where i live you can call the cops and you can order a pizza at the same time and the pizza guy is going to show up first. I take my loved ones and my own safety very seriously. The purpose of a gun isnt to kill someone its to defend yourself kind of like countries and the nuke option. Ive pulled my weapon twice and havent killed anyone. Im very lucky that in both cases the threat of violence was enough to get the job done. Me and my then fiance got to stay alive the losers got to stay alive and it was a win for everyone. The night it went down at my house im not scared for what might have happened to me but what might have happened to her if I wasnt armed. I could not live with myself if I let harm come to my lady and there was something I could have done about it. Guns do serve a purpose other than killing and they damn sure belong in homes.


Now im not saying we should ban cars because a ton of people die in them. I know we all need them to live our lives and get places. I need a car to see friends get groceries and do all that other shit. I need a gun to protect myself and my loved ones because no one else is going to do that for me. It upsets me when so many of you take your safety for granted and want to put mine and a million others like me at risk just because you dont feel comfortable with something. Back to how guns relate to cars and why your arguement about guns sounds so silly to me . What im saying is maybe people should have to get more " training" and that maybe there should be some restrictions on what people can own and drive. Perhaps we should have less trucks suvs and sports cars on the road after all that is like overkill when a focus or civic or some small car like that will get you where you need to go just fine. But you talk about that shit and people with they CAR BONERS will go crazy. I hope one day someone has the balls to stand up to these people.


Like ive been saying for years in these threads. If you want to see a safer more peaceful society than you need to take on the issues that create the war zones in the first places. Ending free trade would help as it would create more decent paying wages and decent jobs for folks. Ending the war on drugs would help because it would make these fools stop killing each other over the drug money and territory. Make education and more affordable and accessable to everyone people who are educated are a lot less to do stupid shit for stupid reasons.

Its those problems that create the dangers and the violence not the guns themselves. Those are the issues that really need to be addressed. Its very easy to blame an object but a lot harder to take on the reasons why we have these problems in the first place.

YOU ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO DROWN DIE IN A CAR WRECK OR DIE FROM EATING TO GOD DAMN MANY WHOPPERS THAN YOU ARE FROM A GUNSHOT WOUND !!!!!!!!!!

[10sun]

I think it depends on where the gunshot wound is.
How many whoppers you eat at once.
and
What body of water your car wreck was in.

I mean yeah, you are going to drown die in a car wreck in the middle of the Atlantic faster than a grazing wound with a gunshot.

[Reynaldo]

Guns have their place in hunting. They have their place at a shooting range. But they have no place in someone's home. They have no place on the floorboard of a car of someone who has road rage, and they have no place down the back of some dipshit's pants.

So what are you supposed to do? Keep your stuff locked up at Gander Mountain and have a Brinks truck ship your guns to you out at a firing range or woods when you're ready to use it?

The age old argument will always be that if you outlaw guns, the only people that have guns will be outlaws. I really can't get on board with making it easier on criminals to gank people knowing the average joe wouldn't break the law and own a gun. At least give them the inkling of doubt that they may get pwned if they break into my house.

I play Call of Duty - I know how to use my AK! Yeeeaaaaahahhhhhhh (Howard Dean).

[Tikker]

i'm not sure anyone is arguing outright gun ban?


you don't need a machine gun at home

if you want a licensed shotgun or hunting rifle, I have no issues with it

handguns, I'm not crazy keen on, as they have no purpose other than killing people

at least a long gun can be justified as a hunting item

[Spazz]

Guns arent just for hunting. Im not crazy keen on anyone telling me what they think I should and shouldnt own. Handguns are not just for killing . Handguns are for all types of sport and comp shooting as well as handy for self defense. If handguns are evil killing machines and there are a billion of them out there why are we not all dead yet ?

[10sun]

because we moved out of Detroit and saved our souls.

[Nusk]

things more dangerous (people injured or killed per year) than guns. lets ban them

swimming pools

cars

skateboards

lawnmowers

doctors

[Gypsiyee]

stupid argument with absolutely no logic.

all of those things serve another positive purpose. and saying they're more dangerous than guns is a real stretch considering the whole purpose of a gun is to launch a piece of metal at a fast enough speed to pierce through flesh and bone. you're seriously likening a person who goes through 12+ years of schooling to save lives to a gun? and saying a piece of wood on wheels is more dangerous than a gun. really. pools, lawnmowers, cars.. I think you're lacking some serious reasoning and reading comprehension skills if you're going to draw that conclusion. accident volume does not make that thing more dangerous. the chance of occurrence is higher because more people utilize them.. that's basic arithmetic.

honestly, i think some people just lack the brain cells to get past the "HUUURRRR I'M AM-UR-I-KUN, I'MA HAVE MY GUN" mindset. there's no logic behind it other than that.

[brinstar]

to me that's as stupid an argument as "we can't let gays marry, because then people will be marrying animals!"

[Spazz]

Ya know Im about as far from a flag waving red neck type as you can get.I lean to the left on almost every issue. I havent used hypothetical arguments about why I keep a weapon Ive told you of 2 real world things that happened to me and how having my weapon saved my ass as well as the ass of my would be attackers. What it comes down to is guns arent for killing that you insist they are for defending. Both situations ive been in have ended without a shot fired or bloodshed because fear of getting shot was enough to win the day. My weapons serve 3 functions one I like to shoot I find it relaxing and something I can do that clears my mind and helps me focus. Two they protect me from the animals where I live and give me the ability to help anyone in need of it if that situation arises. There is a lot of violence where I live and I dont want to see anyone get killed in the street in front of my home or in my yard.Three I have hunted and some day intend to do it again. Just like tools different guns serve different functions. Im not going to drop a boar with a .45 and im not going to be able to carry a shotgun to the store through hoodlum land to get smokes or beer or whatever. Im not going to waste my gas to go 2 blocks I like to get some air and i refuse to be afraid of hoodlums or afraid to walk my neighborhood because some folks dont know how to act decent.

Gyps have you ever found yourself in danger from another human being or been the victim of a crime? Its not funny and it is scary. I just want to live to sort my life out and see what happens. Most nights nothing happens but a trip back and forth but sometimes things get a little wild down here. I dont have any money saved up and i have a mortgage so I cant just up and leave so I deal with it. Im not a commando and I dont want to hurt anyone. In a perfect world people wouldnt rob beat up and kill each other but we dont live in such a place. A gun ban isnt going to disarm criminals. Also even without guns several attackers at once isnt a safe situation to fight in or try to talk your way out of.

Its a lot easier to keep track of gun deaths than it is to keep track of lives saved by them. Im not for banning cars or pools or any of that shit. There are a lot of people in our country and sometimes accidents and tragedies are going to happen. You might not have or want a gun and thats fine. I dont need you to answer the question of if I do or not though. I think im in a much better position to make that decision for me. To me guns are just as everyday and normal as cars.

[Lyion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4IlJ497Vew

Watch the video. Listen to the good music. Then realize a handgun ain't good for nothing, but putting a man six feet in a hole.

It has nothing to do with hunting. Handguns are an offensive weapon.

edit: fixed the link.

[Spazz]

Your vid doesnt work.

Strange I own 2 handguns and neither of them has put anyone 6 feet in the ground. I must not be using them correctly.

[Lyion]

You aren't using them at all. However you yourself have admitted to drawing your gun before. You were pretty close to killing someone. Even if you assume you were in the right, it's a pretty short ride to life in the pen. Especially if you're a druggie, too.

There are plenty of drunk drivers who haven't killed anyone, but I wouldn't condone their behavior either. To me the two are akin.

[Harrison]

I don't want some overbearing entity telling me what I can and can't fucking do with my own life.

Don't eat that plant.
Don't own this piece of machinery.

It's that simple. You guys may be okay with having everyone tell you what to do with your own life, I'm not.

[Spazz]

Yea drew my weapon because I was in fear for my safety. I dont just pull out weapons for shits and giggles. Im pretty sure a jury if it came down to it would have ruled a sane person would have been in fear for his safety and i would have been ok. An old wise saying is that it is better to be hung by 12 than carried by 6 and i believe that. Im glad I wanst hurt and that no one else had to be hurt. That is why im telling you all guns are defensive in nature. I dont look for trouble I dont want to kill anyone. I just dont want to be robbed assaulted or killed by anyone its that simple.


This is about personal responsibility something i thought you right wingers were all about.

I don't want some overbearing entity telling me what I can and can't fucking do with my own life.

Don't eat that plant.
Don't own this piece of machinery.

It's that simple. You guys may be okay with having everyone tell you what to do with your own life, I'm not.

Well said brother

There are plenty of drunk drivers who haven't killed anyone, but I wouldn't condone their behavior either. To me the two are akin

So people who carry or are willing to defend themselves are the same as drunk drivers........

Right on

[10sun]

I'm all about personal responsibility.

However, what shells do you keep in your clip?
How far can those slugs travel?
How far away does your nearest neighbor live?

In the event of a life threatening situation, will you hit 100% of the time?

Chances are you are paying lip service to personal responsibility and in the process you are risking the lives of others.

[Spazz]

Are you kidding me. My weapon of choice is a glock 21 its not a long range weapon and its not a magnum round. I would say chances of it killing a neighbor of mine are slim to none. Also all of my neighbors live across the street and should my round magicly leave my house its going to drop fast and any wall after that is going to stop it.

Back to personal responsibility. Im responsible for my well being the police will show up after the fact and mop me up if i depend on them. If I fire my gun you can damn well be sure that the situation was deadly serious.

Since all you people are so much more enlightened you tell me what would you do if multiple intoxicated attackers were trying to force there way into your home. You know they are capable of violence because you just saw them try to kill another kid seconds before The police are still a long time coming and its just you and your girl at home ? Infact how many of you on here giving me all this shit have found yourself in that situation? Would you risk a round leaving your house to protect your family? WOuld you risk a court case to protect your lover ?

. Police were already called and my girl was on the phone with them and behind me. Badguys are outside the window screan is ripped off and they are trying to bust in the window. running isnt an option theres a lot of the outside and Im not that fast. Help is on the way but there is no telling when it will arrive.What do you do?

Infact why do I even bother with this shit im sure none of you have found yourself in a situation like that.....