Have gun will travel to Oklahoma...

[Gypsiyee]

you're right, we don't. because we took it upon ourselves to move into places that we don't have to deal with that ridiculous ignorant shit.

I empathize with your situation, but if I can be frank you have no one to blame but yourself for choosing to stay there.

bad shit happens. bad people exist. but you bet your ass I'm not going to live where I know the ratio of ignorant and violent people outweighs those who are literate and hard-working.

I understand the paradox of life in a bad environment. Granted I've never lived in the ghetto but I didn't exactly grow up in the burbs either. I've seen my fair share of less than kosher situations. I decided I was too smart to end up in that absurd cycle and I left. My sister decided to stay, and even with her bachelor's in psych she's bankrupt and living in a shithole with her 4 year old daughter. I hate seeing her in a dangerous environment and I hate worrying about her, but there's nothing I can do for her so long as she chooses to stay in that cycle in a bad environment with sketchy friends who make dodgy decisions that put her and her daughter in danger. I love her, but she has no one to blame but herself for her condition.

Those who choose to stay in a bad environment and bad situation and make excuses for why they are the way they are also make the choice to never become better, and it's a little difficult to listen to the logic and reasoning behind it because it's positively nonsensical. I'm sorry you live in a shitty and dangerous place, but I'm even more sorry that you've gotten to such a hopeless place that you're convinced a gun is a necessity in life and that you choose to be a statistic rather than a solution.

I don't think you're a stupid person. I don't think you're a bad person. I also don't view you as a victim. I think you owe yourself better than what you've deemed necessary. Do you honestly think that the father whose young son got a hold of his gun and killed himself thought that the chances of his son dying due to his love of guns was good? They're not called accidents because people expect them to happen.

You wanna live in a trash heap where people are of less worth than drugs, fine. You wanna live where the bad guys outnumber the good, fine. you live there. but don't use it as some bullshit excuse as to why you need items in your home that can make a permanent decision for you before you get a chance to think it through. YOU choose to be there. YOU want to be there. So if the people that surround you are a threat to your well-being, you need to remember that that's the life YOU chose. And if you continue to be there, it's more than just some self defense excuse. It's because that's what you enjoy and where you want to be, no matter what crap reasoning you use to justify it.

[Spazz]

What a bunch of self righteous bullshit.

[10sun]

You should fortify your home.

My close friend lives in the ONLY house directly across from what is considered the most dangerous public housing complex in the city. Last year alone there were over a dozen gun related homicides & well over two dozen non-fatal shootings in that complex. The previous tenant in my friend's house was robbed multiple times and was shot three times in 5 years before moving out.

My friend knew all of this moving in & with $500 & just a few power tools (corded drill + cordless drill, circular saw, & an angle grinder) we zombieproofed his house (lets face it, crackheads are zombies for all intents & purposes).

We reinforced two exterior doorframes with angle iron & replaced the hinges. The third we sealed with 6" of MDF; the other two exterior doors now have 3" of MDF lining on the inside(3x1" panels screwed together) & have new deadbolts.

The downstairs windows have 3" of MDF on the inside going up leaving 8" at the top for sunlight & mirrors to be able to check the front door/porch. The upstairs windows are sealed entirely with 3" of MDF.

Since then, people have tried breaking into the house & have broken the glass out of the windows only to be stuck by the MDF. A quick trip to Home Depot for new glass, replacing the broken pane, and everything is right as rain.

So yeah, I know what type of situation you are in and I also know how to stop crackheads from breaking in without firing a single shot.

Sounds like you haven't done shit if all they have to do is peel back the screen & you are feeling threatened.

As far as your weapon of choice:
It isn't a long range accuracy weapon. However even a heavy grain 45 gap can and will travel up over half a mile without much trouble. Unless you and your neighbors all live in brick/stone buildings, it will penetrate. You'd be better served to get Mossberg 500 with some 00 buck; hell of a lot more stopping power, lower penetration, & lets face it, the sound of a shell being loaded is one hell of a deterrent in and of itself.

You haven't shown any personal responsibility.

[Gypsiyee]

I don't care if you think I'm self righteous tbh. You wanna come here bitching about how we don't know anything because we don't live in the horrible place you live in. Stop bitching and get out then? I mean it's not rocket science here. What's that saying..? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Guess what.. someone can put a bullet between your eyes whether you're packing or not. You're not that special or skilled that you're always going to pull the trigger faster. You're not the only person to value your skill set or accuracy. You live in a place where people are armed at every turn.. I'm not sure what makes you think you're the exception to the rule and that you're the best marksman should you get invaded by a practiced criminal.

I sure as shit wouldn't want to be the one hoping that when I pull a gun I'm quick draw mcgraw and win. Seems an awfully stupid gamble to me. You think a gun = invincibility and immunity from the pos city you live in? That's just silly. You stay in a place like that, it doesn't matter how armed you are, it's just a matter of time before you get in a precarious situation that you can't get yourself out of, and your precious little gun isn't always going to save you no matter what warm fuzzies and delusions of safety it gives you. Guns aren't flippin stars in Mario Bros. No matter how awesome you are, there's always someone somewhere better, faster, stronger, and smarter. You're being reactive instead of proactive, and you're never going be secure if you don't learn to be the latter.

[Lyion]

Since all you people are so much more enlightened you tell me what would you do if multiple intoxicated attackers were trying to force there way into your home. You know they are capable of violence because you just saw them try to kill another kid seconds before The police are still a long time coming and its just you and your girl at home ? Infact how many of you on here giving me all this shit have found yourself in that situation? Would you risk a round leaving your house to protect your family? WOuld you risk a court case to protect your lover ?

Police were already called and my girl was on the phone with them and behind me. Badguys are outside the window screan is ripped off and they are trying to bust in the window. running isnt an option theres a lot of the outside and Im not that fast. Help is on the way but there is no telling when it will arrive.What do you do?.

Well, if I lived there I'd have a Shotgun for home defense and use it. A glock really isn't going to be nearly as effective against multiple intruders.
Shotgun=Defense. Handgun=offense.

Your situation is not normal, Spazz. As Gyp and others noted if we lived where you did, we'd probably be packing, too. You claim to care so much for your family, which really begs the simple question of why the fuck are you still there? No excuses about job or whatever, as it's pretty easy to move.

The bottom line is even if you lived somewhere safe you'd still carry a gun because just like so many others you like the power of having a weapon and you personally have a small taint of paranoia.

As far as 'right wingers', as I've posted 1000 times I have my own views. I'm against the death penalty, against corporate welfare, for social support nets and many other non conservative positions. Heck, I'm more 'liberal' than half the Democrats in Ohio. The big reason the GOP is so pro gun is to entice people like yourself. It ain't just the GOP, as Howard Dean love him some rebel flags and rifles, too! Most people are like yourself, and have views across both parties. Unless you're a caricature like Mindia or a Canadian.

Besides, you know the NRA is like AARP. It's a lot of hogwash, but mainly just a huge lobbying group for guns, just as the AARP is for old people sucking the next generation dry on entitlements.

[Harrison]

I'm loling at all of this "...just move" talk.

Seriously.

[Spazz]

I'm loling at all of this "...just move" talk.

Seriously.

Yea cuz its just that simple.

Now back to you gyps. I live in metro detroit and if you follow news or current events you know shit isnt going all that great round here. I was speaking for myself most of this thread but ill speak for the good people where I live down here. Not only will you find gangsters and drug dealers , youll also find old folks that retired with out much and families that over the last few years have lost thier jobs thier savings and every thing else. To say your 2 options are live there love and and be at other peoples mercy or just up and move shows alot about what you think of poor folks and really just reaks of self righteousness. I myself havent made the best decisions in life over the years and im just now starting to realize that. Lot of the folks down here did everything right though and shit just fell apart on them.

But hey fuck us were worthless. Guns scare you and obviously have no purpose so I guess we all deserve what we get.

[brinstar]

no man you're taking this the wrong way

i get that you have pride about your homeland, but this has fuck-all to do with pride - your homeland fucking sucks and it WILL KILL YOU VIOLENTLY SOMEDAY

if you don't get yourself and everyone you care about the fuck OUT of that shithole then it'll be YOUR FAULT when it happens

you'll be laying there with your precious pride bleeding out of a knife wound in your chest and all you'll be able to think about is "fuck, why didn't i listen to brinstar? i bet i wouldn't have been stabbed over $12 in Lincoln"

[Lyion]

Your post makes me think of Gran Torino, Spazz.

I don't think anyone is judging you, but we're just sayin' what we'd do if we lived there.

I went to college at Cal Poly and worked near Watts, which is as dangerous as where you live. Arguably more back when I was there. I got the heck out of there as soon as I could. Oh, despite working near the hood, I got by fine without a gun.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... logsModule

DETROIT—The population of Detroit has fallen back 100 years.

The flight of middle-class African-Americans to the suburbs fueled an exodus that cut Detroit's population 25% in the past decade to 713,777, according to Census Bureau data released Tuesday. That's the city's lowest population level since the 1910 census, when automobile mass production was making Detroit Detroit.

The decline, the fastest in city history, shocked local officials, who had expected a number closer to 800,000. Mayor Dave Bing said the city would seek a recount.

"If we could go out and identify another 40,000 people that were missed, and it brings us over the threshold of 750,000, that would make a difference from what we can get from the federal and state government," Mr. Bing said at a news conference Tuesday.

In all, the city lost more than 237,000 residents, including 185,000 blacks and about 41,000 whites. The Hispanic population ticked up by 1,500. Meanwhile, the black population in neighboring Macomb County more than tripled to 72,723, constituting 8.6% of the county's population in 2010, compared with 2.7% a decade earlier. Oakland County's African-American population rose 36% to 164,078.

<snip>

"People are still looking to move out for safety and services," said Mr. Metzger, director of Data Driven Detroit, which compiles Census data for the city. The population-decline numbers, which exceeded his own estimates by 75,000, will only reinforce negative perceptions of the city, he said.

The Census report comes amid signs that the regional and state economies are beginning to stabilize. Michigan added 10,000 manufacturing jobs last year, and unemployment has dropped sharply.

[Gypsiyee]

I'm loling at all of this "...just move" talk.

Seriously.

Yea cuz its just that simple.

Now back to you gyps. I live in metro detroit and if you follow news or current events you know shit isnt going all that great round here. I was speaking for myself most of this thread but ill speak for the good people where I live down here. Not only will you find gangsters and drug dealers , youll also find old folks that retired with out much and families that over the last few years have lost thier jobs thier savings and every thing else. To say your 2 options are live there love and and be at other peoples mercy or just up and move shows alot about what you think of poor folks and really just reaks of self righteousness. I myself havent made the best decisions in life over the years and im just now starting to realize that. Lot of the folks down here did everything right though and shit just fell apart on them.

But hey fuck us were worthless. Guns scare you and obviously have no purpose so I guess we all deserve what we get.

I guess I missed the memo that I was rich? I'm not really sure where you get that notion from. I spent a good chunk of my life piss poor without a bed to sleep in, so don't come at me talking some shit about how I don't care about poor people. I've worked my ass off since I was 14 for every single thing I now have. I continue to work and go to school full time busting my ass so that one day I can be comfortable. I haven't had shit handed to me, and you can take that insinuation and shove it up your conclusion jumping ass. Financial stability has no relevance to how I feel about guns, and making that connection shows how bullheaded you're being when listening to outside perspective. One has *nothing* to do with the other.

I didn't say your only options are to leave or be at other people's mercy. I said you come here using your environment as an excuse for your advocacy of violence. If you want to live there and you love it there, you can't have it both ways and also whine about how awful it is. If it's awful, leave. If you take pride in where you come from, more power to you--you should. You're the one who comes here talking about how awful it is, but you want to jump my shit because I'm agreeing with you? Makes no sense dude.

I get that there are great people that live there, too. I get that you guys have been hit hard with a horrible unfortunate catastrophe that no one was prepared for. But if you see that you're in a dead-end nowhere job that's never going to advance you, would you stay in it or would you leave to better yourself? How is where you decide to lay your head at night any different, especially when it comes to matters of life and death?

This isn't about me being scared of guns. I hate them and find them to be positively worthless with no relevance in day to day 21st century living. I'm not scared of guns; I'm scared of how many dumb shit people carry them around just because they can. I never insinuated that you were one of those dumb shit people. My aversion to guns is nothing personal. Your situation is not the situation of your average gun enthusiast, but even still, my entire point is that the necessity that you place on guns is a personal choice you make. You have other options--albeit difficult ones--and you choose not to exercise them. And so, the necessity is not actually a necessity.

And no, it's not just easy to up and move. But honestly, if you think that securing a good life should be easy and handed to you then it may be that you don't deserve one. Play the victim, that's your right. But pardon me if I come off as self-righteous when I call pity party bs on it. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone tells you because it's your life. If your ideal life involves seeking comfort and peace of mind in a hunk of metal, I'm sorry for you because that's a shitty way to have to live.

[Spazz]

Im not calling a pity party im not proud or ashamed. Im just trying to explain to you why some people carry weapons. You keep saying they guns have no purpose in 21st century life and im trying to explain why they do. What this comes down to is if you dont see the need for a gun than dont own have or carry one. The rest of us grown ups should also have the right to make our own decision on that matter. Im sure after i get through school and find a decent woman ill make a plan to move but for now im living here and getting my shit together. Im sure im not alone in that either theres plenty of people in the metro just like that. It wasnt allways that bad here either but it is getting worse. Im sorry you take offense to being called self righteous but thats how your coming across. I dont want shit handed to me at the end of the day i just want to be free to make my own choices with what I own where I go or what I do I call that freedom im not sure what you call it

[Gypsiyee]

I think we just haven't communicated and have missed each other's points, then. I understand why they're still around in situations such as yours. As I said before, though, your situation is not the situation of the typical gun owner. Many gun owners own them on principle and because it's their right based on loosely interpreted constitutional verbiage. There's no practical reason.. they just want them because damn it, they can have them and no one has the right to tell them otherwise.

The reality though is that even as adults we have basic rules to abide by, and the world would be a terrible pre-apocalyptic (slight exaggeration) place if everyone adopted the mindset that everything they want to do, own, or whatever is theirs whenever they so choose to do it. WE have crazy people out there, man. And those crazy people enjoy the same rights you do. We have normal people out there, too, who have breaking points and go and do really crazy things.

When there's something that poses a threat and causes real and dangerous problems in a population as guns do, at some point we have to realize that regulation is necessary because people like you and I who have the basic skills of logic and reasoning don't account for every single person in this country, and where that line is drawn is awfully vague. We learn from the time we're in grade school that one person can ruin it for everyone.. I think we've seen on more than one occasion that the rules and freedoms as they are have lead to some disastrous and unpredicted consequences. Yes, I loathe guns something fierce. But no, I don't think it's practical to get rid of them all at this point. I do think, though, that it's perfectly reasonable to tighten the reigns on who's able to have them and that it should be at least as hard to get a gun as it is to buy a house. At least as hard, if not harder. I also believe that concealed weapons are absolutely unnecessary for Joe Schmo and should be left to trained professionals who have a professional need for them. Every situation is unique, and when it comes to something as powerful as a firearm, I just don't think there's room for generalizations and blanket application of what we've interpreted as a right but realistically should be a privilege at best.

[Spazz]

Im tired of that one person can ruin it for everyone mentality. Accidents and tragedies happen and to me that means we deal with it as an isolated incident not take shit away from people or flip out. Theres a billion fuckers in this country and that means some shits gonna happen. Niggas gonna od some folks gonna get murdered some folks gonna drown in their own pools A WHOLE BUNCH OF US WILL DIE IN OUR CARS and some folks will have gun accidents. You cant nerf the world so you deal with it. For how many guns are out there there arent that many ACCIDENTS. As far as murders go I think I have talked about how we might be able to lower that number as well. You cant blame an object weather its pot a gun a car or real butter for people fucking up. In the end it comes down on the shoulders of the person. I refuse to beleive that in a free country people shouldnt have the right to make they own decisions. While i live in the hood and I see a reason to own a gun i also do beleive that ITS MY RIGHT. Just like the right to say what i want to do and go where i want to go. Freedom is a messy thing and sometimes people get hurt but that is what happens when you let people decide their own destiny.

[Gaazy]

everyone knows I am for guns, but i still stay the fuck out of these threads because I dont care enough about what anyone thinks to argue about it...but spazz, all your 'my roots are here' stuff is bullshit as a reason for not moving. You are just full of your own shit. In my eyes thats not a reason for anyone when your life is in danger, if it is in fact as bad as you say it is. If it endangers who you love and yourself, get the fuck out, no roots are that deep unless your a complete fucking idiot. If anything, just move a little ways so your still where your roots are, just not in that particular neighborhood. Surely you can go a little ways and be close to what your home is. And dont try to tell me I dont know about dangerous places. There are hollers down here full of gun toting pillheads that will make your ghettos look like fucking Park Avenue. The only tough part about moving is sellin the house sometimes, and thats the only part ill give you any credit on. Basically, you may not be the same as the thugs and idiots running around your hood, but when you STAY there for as long as you have your just as much to blame as them

[Gypsiyee]

Fair enough, but is it really one isolated incident? UVA. Columbine. Tuscon. These aren't accidents. Incidents like these would not have been possible if not for guns, because they're easily accessible, powerful, and require little to no skill to operate.

Shit happens and people die. That doesn't mean we should make it as easy as possible for those tragedies to happen.

Anyway, we're never going to agree on this, so I digress.

[Spazz]

You dont need a gun to go nuts how bout oklahoma city or 9/11. With how many guns and how many people yes shit like columbine and virgina tech are isolated incidents. People dont do that shit everyday and as far as the news goes if it bleeds it leads so it gets major air time.

Something to think about as far as I know florida is a very very gun friendly state as far as I know. From what I hear a lot of folks carry guns down there . DO you see the guns or gun fights every time you leave your house ?

[Tikker]

Im tired of that one person can ruin it for everyone mentality

that's the way it works though


we refuse to cull the human race properly, and this is where it gets us

[Harrison]

Massive walls of text...

I'm still curious why so many of you are perfectly okay with anonymous parties telling you what you can and cannot do with your body and personal property.

[Harrison]

Fair enough, but is it really one isolated incident? UVA. Columbine. Tuscon. These aren't accidents. Incidents like these would not have been possible if not for guns, because they're easily accessible, powerful, and require little to no skill to operate.

Shit happens and people die. That doesn't mean we should make it as easy as possible for those tragedies to happen.

Anyway, we're never going to agree on this, so I digress.

Give a large man a sharp blade about 3 feet long.

Let him run through a mall slicing and dicing as he pleases.

Tell me the kill count wouldn't be similar.

Refer back to: "Human beings will kill each other. The means of doing so are not the problem."

[Gypsiyee]

You dont need a gun to go nuts how bout oklahoma city or 9/11. With how many guns and how many people yes shit like columbine and virgina tech are isolated incidents. People dont do that shit everyday and as far as the news goes if it bleeds it leads so it gets major air time.

Something to think about as far as I know florida is a very very gun friendly state as far as I know. From what I hear a lot of folks carry guns down there . DO you see the guns or gun fights every time you leave your house ?

The difference is that OKC and 9/11 weren't your every day attacks. Those were calculated and took a lot of intelligence, coordination, manipulation, and planning to execute. Such is not the case with gun attacks. Any idiot can lose his marbles one day and start shooting people with no planning or brain cells required.

No, I don't see gun fights every day.. but I live in an older established neighborhood in a pretty safe side of town. I do have a poker buddy who came to a game one day with his eye patched up because he was sitting on his front porch and got hit by a stray bullet, though. It depends on what part of town you're in here (though I think that's everywhere). I also have co-workers who are actually considering buying guns as an answer to their road rage issues and other co-workers who say it's a great idea because if you get pissed off at someone for cutting you off you just show them your gun and they'll know you mean business. That conversation actually happened, and my brain melted a little.

And no, Harrison, I really don't think the count would be similar. There's a reason people who want to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time choose firearms as their weapon of choice. It's a lot easier to outrun something with a 3 ft reach than it is to outrun a bullet. Beyond slasher and samurai films, how many mass murders with machetes and swords have you seen in the news?

[Harrison]

As much as I argue for the gun side of the issue, I see your side as well.

I wouldn't trust the people you spoke with to have a job nevermind a firearm. This world lets them, however.

Those people are going to be your entire basis for argument?

No one has addressed my question yet.

Why are you comfortable with a faceless body of people disconnected with your struggles decide what you can and cannot do with your own life?

[Spazz]

I also have co-workers who are actually considering buying guns as an answer to their road rage issues and other co-workers who say it's a great idea because if you get pissed off at someone for cutting you off you just show them your gun and they'll know you mean business

Do me a favor and dont lump me in with people like this. Ima flash my pistol at this dude for cutting me off is fucking retarded. Guns are for a lot of things but getting pissed in traffic isnt one of them. I used to deliver pizza I know all about being pissed in the car but that isnt what a sane rational person does with a gun. You scowl at them honk or throw up the finger maybe talk some shit and keep on going because in the larger picture being annoyed on your way to work or taco bell or whatever just doesnt mean shit and isnt worth possibly killing someone over . You might need a crew if that is the kind of idiot shit your friends come up with.

Why are you comfortable with a faceless body of people disconnected with your struggles decide what you can and cannot do with your own life?

The answer to that question Harri is that it makes them feel safer. Drugs and guns really have a lot in common when it comes to this discussion.

[Harrison]

You guys know me. You've seen my stances change from a kid's ignorance to having seen life's big fat cock rammed down my throat. Those(my views) have changed quite a bit over the years and the shit I've been through.

Why would ANYONE let the government tell them what they can and cannot do with their OWN lives? I don't get it.

[Arlos]

There are some things I am fine with the government regulating, and some things I am not.

Broadly, what I am fine with being regulated are things that allow some people to easily and readily cause significant harm to other people. That's why explosives and automatic weapons are banned. I am also fine with the government regulating major public safety issues, like requiring standards of food safety, workplace safety, building codes, etc.

What I am not OK with is things you do that generally can only harm yourself. This would be drug laws, etc.

As I have said before, my biggest problem with handguns and unrestricted concealed carry is that it makes it entirely too easy for people to harm each other. Like I've said before, how many of us have known someone who is a great guy when sober, but gets a hair trigger temper and becomes ragingly aggro when drunk? Now, imagine that person was packing? Instead of bar fights, you'd have mass bar shootings.

Home defense is one thing, but even there, I'd vastly prefer a shotgun. Even the sound of working the action on a shotgun is a pretty big deterrent, not to mention there is vastly less chance of you accidentally hitting a innocent target downrange if you fire and miss.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

We have tons of guns and bars out there right this very second and still people arent shooting each other like its going out of style . Your fears and worries are not rooted in reality . You think everyone who carries a gun has a license for it ? How many armed people do you think you walk past a day ? Youd never know it because they arent looking to get into a gun fight or start some shit they just want to feel a little safer going about they day to day routine. The people who go through the official channels that want to carry a gun are responsible gun owners.

I find it funny that you think people are smart enough to put drugs in to they bodies and not harm anyone else but the second you put them near a gun they become ticking time bombs that might just murder anyone. From cars to drugs to guns all things are pretty safe when used and handled responsibly.

If you get wild when you drink or use drugs you prolly shouldnt have a weapon at all. High drunk or sober. But that isnt everyone

Last thing i want to say is a shotgun racking is scary but it also alerts your perp to where you might be and if hes armed or drugged out of his mind youve just made a bad situation way worse. ALso a lot of women cant work a shot gun its to long or to heavy to be weilded
effectively and it might put them in even more danger.

Actually one more thing......... rant on ......... I think one of the reasons liberals have such a hard time holding on to power and our country keeps getting more and more right wings is so many on the left come across as elitist and think everyone is some kind of retard that needs to be protected from themselves. I know so many people that are as liberal as you can be but vote republican every time because of gun rights. It cost Clinton in 94 and if libs try to do it again it will cost them again. The people on the nt might agree with you and the people in clai might agree with you but overall in our fine country people would rather be armed and have spoken and voted on that time in and time out.


Its not just me the arrogance in the statement " your too stupid to own and carry a gun safely" really rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Im not some deranged loon. I carry safely when I do carry .I dont just draw weapons on people because I lost my temper because i dont want my guns taken away nor do i want to end someones life over nothing, I dont have a rap sheet Im not a violent person. I feel the same way about guns as I do about pot and gays getting married and a whole list of other things. If someone isnt hurting you threatening you or robbing you leave them the hell alone to live and die as they see fit. If you dont want a gun dont have one if you dont want an abortion dont get one and if you dont wanna get high than just say no and if you dont like what your hearing than change the god damn station .... FREEDOM its fuckin wild isnt it