Have gun will travel to Oklahoma...

[Spazz]

Arlos I have another question. Sports cars go way faster than you need to go and surely many people die driving them like tards do you think that ownership of them should be restricted? Uou can own one but it has to stay in a special locked garage at the track ? How bout large trucks should you have to get a special permit that says you need it for work to own one surely gettin hit by an f 150 is way worse than getting drilled by a ford focus ?

Ive asked you this question before and I get no answer. The most dangerous thing you encounter every god damned day of your life is cars and no one ever talks about restrictions on them so that we can all feel a little bit safer. Im not talking about banning them just a few common sense restrictions to keep us all safer whadda ya think

[brinstar]

fuck yeah i'd go for that

no one, and i mean NO ONE, fucking needs to drive their lambo on the street. EVER. even if they obey all traffic laws at all times, it's still a dick move to show off the piles of disposable income you're willing to burn on something so frivolous. keep that shit on the track, PERIOD.

same with big trucks. i'm sure you need your enormous F350 superduty rockin' the duelies down on the farm to haul shit around offroad, but you should def have to get a special permit if you want to drive it anywhere else. because as soon as you cram that thing in a regular-sized lane it becomes a liability. (and while i'm ranting, learn to park, you fucking rednecks)


and you guys are gonna love this...


BAN ALL MOTORCYCLES FROM PUBLIC ROADS.

[Spazz]

BAN ALL MOTORCYCLES FROM PUBLIC ROADS

Ya know ive said that a lot of times but i cant get behind it because im not for banning anything even if it can be abused and dangerous. Its a free country after all or at least its sposed to be That said harleys ( if being next to you with my windows down makes me deaf your shit is to loud) make way to damn much noise and it seems every crotch rocket has a kid on it that thinks they are death and maim proof . I dont know how many assholes on bikes I almost killed when i drove for a living but i hated em. always whipping from lane to lane and just appearing in your blind spot out of nowhere. Even saw a kid lose his arm one day cuz he was showing off his new bike and hit the stop sign infront of the firestation. Bikes are dangerous and annoying but if you want to kill yourself on one its not my place to tell you you cant.

Least your consistent brin and I can respect that.

[Tikker]

Sports cars go way faster than you need to go and surely many people die driving them like tards do you think that ownership of them should be restricted?

totally agree

[Lyion]

This thread has taken a hard left into the liberal command and control stronghold. I do dislike the big brother mentality, even if I personally dislike those who feel the need to have a firearm on their body at all times since the world is not safe.

We have valid state laws about what is and what isn't street legal. Most of us live in fascist states in the 'burbs where speeding results in a nice check for our towns. Insurance costs for sports cars are likewise outrageous. I personally won't compare owning a Harley or having a Mustang GT to ones need to carry around a loaded firearm. Although it is a good analogy there, Spazz.

You know, I think what we need are laws so idiots who are using drugs or drunk while carrying said firearm get the same treatment as the driving laws. That'd be a good start for me.

[Spazz]

Goin ranting about more laws Going off topic youve been warned

We dont need more laws we need less. We dont need laws for being intoxicated and guns we already have laws for murder assault and violence in place. Just becuase a dude is drunk or on drugs doesnt mean that his house wont get broken into or he wont be assaulted and there is no reason to charge him just because some shit went down. As I already said alcohol and guns are already readily avaiable and our streets arent exactly rivers of blood.

While im at it dui laws are a fuckin scam like no other. Its one thing to stop you from driveing is your totally wasted but for a lot of people .08 isnt drunk at all its 2 beers after work. You shouldnt have your life ruined over that specially since most drunk driving accidents take place way higher than that.

Drug laws are the same our prisons arent filled with scarface they are filled with reguler people who got caught in possession. A lot of the time you can be high in your own house and they just want to hit you with major fines and seperate you from your money and property . Drug laws are a major scam and a huge government jobs program from dea agents to prison guards. Where I live our prisons are overcrowded like you wouldnt believe and due to manditory minimum sentences we let real bad guys go so that we could house our drug offenders. Meanwhile the very drug laws make our streets and neighborhoods unsafe due to high profit of something humans have always wanted since the dawn of mankind. Murders over drug turf and rip offs make up the bulk of our murderes in this country and yet we cant do a damn thing to change these laws. DRUGS ARE BAD LOCK UP THE DRUG DEALERS SO THAT IM NOT IN DANGER FROM THEM OR HIGH PEOPLE is what you get when you bring that debate up. GO a little further south to a land called mexico and you can really see the effects of our drug policies in action. That place is literally a war zone. The cartels make so much money they bribe the politicions and are totally untouchable. Since the profits to be made are so huge the cartels war with each other over that money and the smuggling routs. A lot of people have died for nothing. From time to time the danger we have created down there spills over into our country. Also how do you think that shit gets into the country.... bribes and more curruption.

We really dont need more laws we need to look into the ones we already have and check out the cause and effect relatonship. A lot of the very laws to make us feel nice and safe just create more problems for us to deal with.

This may seem a bit off our topic here but to me the issues of guns, drugs, personal freedom and laws are all intertwined with each other.

End ranting about laws

To take it back onto topic it isnt the god damn crackheads that make me need a gun its the culture created by prohibition. Its the gangsters and the threat that they represent and if you could get your dope at 711 or cvs Id bet my life and everything I own that we would see a lot less of that behavior. I would also bet that the price of drugs would plummet leading to a lot less stealing and breakins to support the habbit.

[Tikker]

We dont need more laws we need less.

I think it's more that different laws are needed, with real consequences

[brinstar]

and for the record spazz prison overcrowding is NOT a detroit problem rofl

[Griever]

Spazz, I want to present a question to you: Do you think a reason you don't want to leave where you live is because it gives you a sense of validation for owning guns?

[Spazz]

No if I lived in a mcmansion in a gated community I would still be 100 % pro gun ownership. I like guns. I like being free to chose weather I want to have one or not. I like going to the range and I like knowing that at any given second the shit hits the fan I will always have a fighting chance. Im not against moving either I just dont have any money at the moment and I have also said that several times now.

I didnt mean prison overcrowding was just a detroit problem I was just saying up here recently there were articles in the free press about all these bad guys getting set free because the prison pop was too high and we needed to save money. Its a problem in general in your country for the reasons I stated in my rant last night.

[Gypsiyee]

The conversation has deviated a bit since I last posted, so I won't derail the derail, but I just want to respond to Spazz and Harrison.

Don't mistake me; by no stretch of the imagination do I lump all gun owners into the group of people I mentioned in that conversation. However, I recognize that those people have the same rights you and I do when it comes to guns. That mindset is the problem. Responsible owners are not the problem, but the reality is that not all gun owners are responsible and without stricter regulation, there's currently no way to weed that problem out. It's guns for all or guns for none, and that leaves little up to discretion. You can't tell a law abiding citizen that they cannot buy a gun unless they've been diagnosed with mental illness and legally adjudicated (which is a process in itself) from purchasing a firearm, and that can result in some terrible consequences. And really, that's only the tip of the iceberg. There are so many more nuances and deeper rooted issues than just that. Don't you think the fact that Glock sales went UP after Jared Loughner did what he did is an issue? Here's this terrible tragedy of this crazy guy taking his gun and killing people, and the public's response is "oh, awesome, I want one before I'm not allowed to get one!" That's crazy to me.

Freedom is subjective. I don't think I'm any less free because I have laws to abide by. I don't want someone telling me what to do and what not to do, but I do want the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Firearms don't really have a place in that, because they only serve to destroy. That's their only purpose. They do nothing else, and I just really don't understand the hard-on for them in the grand scheme of things.

Certainly, all situations are different and some people may feel they have a need for them, but getting back to the chicken or the egg, why is there a need for them? Because the threat of them already exists. It's the fight fire with fire mentality I find so dangerous.

[Spazz]

Well gyps I think this is where we will have to agree to disagree.

Firearms don't really have a place in that, because they only serve to destroy. That's their only purpose. They do nothing else,

That isnt a fact thats an opinion. Theres a lot of gun owners that havent killed anything or anyone out there. As I have stated I have defended myself with a gun twice now and neither time has resulted in loss of life. There are a lot of people that are involved in any number of shooting sports from hunting to speed and skill challenges.

And yes more restrictions = less freedom.

Sports cars go way faster than you need to go and surely many people die driving them like tards do you think that ownership of them should be restricted? you can own one but it has to stay in a special locked garage at the track ? How bout large trucks should you have to get a special permit that says you need it for work to own one surely gettin hit by an f 150 is way worse than getting drilled by a ford focus ?

Please address this for my gyps. I know guns can be dangerous but the most dangerous thing any of us go near on a day to day basis is cars. Gun deaths are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people who die in car accidents. SO should we have more restrictions on them as well ?

[Spazz]

Be consistant here otherwise you just come across to me as someone whos afraid of guns . How bout smoking that ones a real killer should it be banned as well? Fast food and fatty foods heart disease and being fat is a real killer should we be banning foods people can eat and serve as well ? Is this about public safety or is this about being afraid of some things but not others ?

[Griever]

Spazz, guns are on a whole different level than cars and the other stuff you mentioned. It's not even apples and oranges it's its more like apples and waffles. So when you mention those things it kind of weakens your argument. You can poke so many holes in those arguments and twist them to suit your own opinions easily. Stick with your stronger well grounded points.

That being said...

Gyps, I do agree with Spazz that guns only purpose being to destroy is false. Guns can be used to defend and are done so all the time. The police officers -at least not the crooked ones- are taught to fire if only necessary and the fact that they draw there weapon is to be a deterrent or to defuse a situation. A cop would shoot to wound before he would shoot to kill unless he had no other choice. I understand that a gun in the possession of a cop is different than a gun in the possession of a civilian, but this is only serving as an example to how your argument is incorrect. It is not the guns themselves that destroy and take away your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, its the person who wields it.

[Spazz]

I dont see it as apples to waffles at all. People freak out about guns being dangerous and wanting to ban them whenever theres an incident but ignore the fact that there are many more dangerous things out there. I think people who tend to be anti gun are anti gun due to a knee jerk emotional reaction and not a rational one.

[Gypsiyee]

Perhaps destroy is the wrong word because that's not really the point I was trying to make; in defense or not, the purpose of a gun is to injure. Cars serve the purpose of transport, knives serve the purpose of cutting food, etc. Yes they can be used in bad ways, but that's not what they're intended to do. The intention of a gun is completely different, though--it is intended to be used for harm (whether using the defense argument or not, the intention even there is to harm the offender) and serves no other purpose, except maybe a really expensive nutcracker. As far as using them for sporting purposes, I don't think I ever said I had a problem with that. But that's a whole different ball of wax than is carrying around a concealed Glock.

As for smoking, yes, it's a killer, but harmful to only those who choose to partake. I absolutely believe that it should not be allowed in public places where it can harm those who do not wish to be exposed to it. Same with drinking--harmful to only oneself and those who choose to go into environments where drinking is allowed. There are strict laws in place against drunk driving, and while it still happens, it's regulated with preventative repercussions whether an accident occurs or not. As far as fast and fatty food, I'm all for taxing the hell out of it, but again, no one is a victim of fast food except those who choose to eat it.

As far as the cars, I'm 100% for regulating the ones with no purpose and giving them a time or place that isn't on shared roads. Hummers, gas guzzling roadsters, cars designed for speed, etc. Totally unnecessary on public roads and serve only to empower dumbass 20-something guys to drive like utter shit just to draw attention to themselves. It's dangerous and a liability. I understand the appreciation of the artwork and technical skills put into cars as well as guns, but I'll never be a person who sees something like a car as something to play with and see "what this baby can do" on shared roads with speed regulations. I'm a practical person. I believe in practical things. Cars like that aren't practical for day to day life. Who wants to be driving around a 90k car on a daily commute just to have some Chevy Aveo smash into it in the parking lot? Seems an unnecessary waste for the owner and unnecessary liability for other cars sharing the road when Mr. Bigshot wants to come zooming through at 100mph. People who drive stuff like that on a day to day basis have more money than brains, imo.

[Spazz]

There is nothing wrong with a law abiding citizen carrying a gun. We go round in a circle but ill say it again. Law abiding folks who get permits and carry guns are not the criminal element that causes problems with them.

It sounds to me gyps like you want the government to make a lot of decisions for people and thats not something I can get behind. I dont think either of us will get what we want though gun rights seem to not be going anywhere and the govt always seems to want to tell you what you can and cant do with your body. I think people should be free to make they own decisions on how to live their lives. Guns, fast food ,fast cars, dope ,smoking , hookers and so on should all be decisions that free adults should be allowed to make on their own. If in the process of making these decisions you hurt someone you should be locked up . If you dont hurt anyone than I dont see why a free people shouldnt be allowed to make their own decisions. You might need a nanny state govt telling you what you can and cant do with your body or what you can and cant own but I thinks that is insanity and it seems to be getting worse as the years go by. How do you feel about the war on drugs gyps ? Theres only a few of us in this thread so we might as well let it wander where it may

[Tossica]

I just wanted to say, Mmmm... apples and waffles.

[Gaazy]

I think Spazz sounds stupid on about everything he says in this thread (the arguments not he views usually) but I guess IVe found something a lot of the others have said to be fucking stupid too with the vehicles. If its street legal, who the fuck are you to tell someone what vehicles they can and cant buy? If they want to go buy a super fast lambo, let them spend pointless gobs of money. Its their money. Sometimes I think some of the people here are just downright jealous of people with money. The other thread recently about unions or something had the same shit in it (especially Clakar, that shit made me laugh like hell).

I dont see how you can compare cars to guns either. That is stupid.



ps another thing Spazz said that made me giggle like a kid was when he said a shotgun is going to give the 'perps' your location. Like a fucking handgun isnt going to be loud enough to give away your location in an enclosed location especially. Rofl. And I guess it is still yet personal preference...but rofl at a guy who prefers pistol to shotgun in home defense. Weight wise I can see a female wanting a pistol rather than lugging around a big shotgun. If someone gets the jump on you and has the mindset to do nothing but hurt you, it doesnt matter what gun you have, but if you hear them coming in and get the jump on them, it makes no sense to prefer a pistol...in any way

[Spazz]

You chose the weapon you are most comfortable with. If your pistols already hot your not going to make a sound if you rack that 12 gauge your heard from a mile off I wasnt talking about the sound of the shot fired i was talking about how arlos or somebody just said racking it is scary enough to make anyone run. Why so many of you think the bulky long gun that has to be cycled after each shot is the better option is beyond me. Also a glock 21 fits much better under my pillow than a winchester

Yea cars and guns are a bad comparison one kills a lot of people every year and the other is guns. One gets vilified constantly and the the other one that kills way more people a year never gets mentioned. People are to stupid to own a gun but anyone can drive a car.

[Drem]

as people have already pointed out, cars actually serve a useful purpose

guns don't

end of story

[Drem]

in other words: i'd like to see a gun drive me up to the mountains on a snowy day

and stop with the "but but but cars kill more people than guns do!!!" 95% of the people i know own or drive a car. 2 of them own firearms. it's no small wonder that something with a vastly larger amount of users is going to have more accidents "statistically". and that's all they are, accidents. i dont see people driving their cars into other people on purpose, like someone aiming and pulling the trigger of a gun

it's a retarded argument about a retarded topic. it's not like, unfortunately, guns are going anywhere anyway so wtf you always get so defensive about em for in the first place

[Gypsiyee]

There is nothing wrong with a law abiding citizen carrying a gun. We go round in a circle but ill say it again. Law abiding folks who get permits and carry guns are not the criminal element that causes problems with them.

Jared Loughner was a 'law abiding citizen'. Law abiding enough to legally purchase a 9mm semi-automatic Glock that allowed him to kill 6 people, including a 9 year old child.

It sounds to me gyps like you want the government to make a lot of decisions for people and thats not something I can get behind. I dont think either of us will get what we want though gun rights seem to not be going anywhere and the govt always seems to want to tell you what you can and cant do with your body. I think people should be free to make they own decisions on how to live their lives. Guns, fast food ,fast cars, dope ,smoking , hookers and so on should all be decisions that free adults should be allowed to make on their own. If in the process of making these decisions you hurt someone you should be locked up . If you dont hurt anyone than I dont see why a free people shouldnt be allowed to make their own decisions. You might need a nanny state govt telling you what you can and cant do with your body or what you can and cant own but I thinks that is insanity and it seems to be getting worse as the years go by. How do you feel about the war on drugs gyps ? Theres only a few of us in this thread so we might as well let it wander where it may

The problem with this mindset is there's no proactive activity or prevention of the inevitable. It's wait until someone screws up and then punish them after it's already too late. I understand innocent until proven guilty, but this is my problem with guns specifically. No punishment exists until it's too late, and more often than not when something horrible happens it's a quick and passionate decision or a total accident that can cause irreparable damage that wouldn't otherwise occur without them.

I think the war on drugs is utter bs for the same reasons I mentioned before. Drugs only hurt those who choose to partake. I think there's a real problem with certain drugs that spurn violent action that should be regulated, but there are many drugs that should just be left alone and regulated the same as alcohol. I've said a million times I don't do drugs, never really have.. I've smoked pot a handful of times back in the day, but it never really tripped my trigger. Alcohol is my drug of choice on occasion, but again--it's not about what I feel is best for me personally, it's about what I feel is best for the nation as a whole.

And no, I don't want the government telling me what I can and can't do. However, I do feel laws and regulations are necessary for an evergrowing population that continues to be less educated with each generation that passes; that's a fact. Certainly, we've become more tech-savvy, but the core of our educational standards and knowledge per capita has grossly decreased over the last century alone.

Like I said, I'm a practical person. I believe in practical things. Not only are our people slowly getting dumber, we've also evolved into a nation of instant gratification and what we want when we want it just because we can. My belief is that if we don't have the foresight to see where that mindset is heading in a hundred years, we're going to leave a pretty shitty world behind us. We're already the fattest. We already have the highest incarceration rate. We're supposed to be "the best" country in the world, and yet we're nowhere near the top when it comes to education rankings.

We've done so much in the name of defiance and outright bullishness. With blinders on, we've charged ahead calling ourselves the best and the freest, and that we set some imaginary standard for the rest of the world. We aren't, and we don't. There may have been a time when we were the best, but such is the case no more because we've [the average American] become so divided and so ignorant to the rest of the world. We've thrown rationale out the window in the name of "freedom", and we've applied that word so loosely that we have no idea what it actually means anymore. Freedom isn't having or doing what you want when you want with who you want. If there are stricter regulations against guns, is that really impeding your freedom? I certainly don't think so. Because you look at tightening regulation as the government taking your freedom, and I look at it as other citizens stepping on my freedom of feeling secure.

It's subjective. So you don't want the government taking your freedom, and I don't want other citizens taking mine. I'll be honest, it'd be really hard for me to feel free in a place like Detroit. That's not knocking you in any way, but if I feel unsafe walking outside at night I definitely don't feel free. If you really feel like you have to carry a gun around to protect yourself from dangerous people, how free can you possibly be?

People who use their gun rights to threaten other citizens are stepping on their freedom. And just because you would never do that doesn't mean that all legal gun owners are like you. I'd say it's 50/50 at best. I personally know more irrational gun owners who got a gun just because they could and/or out of spite than those like you who got them for protection or for sport.. and that includes my dad (who I love) who bought his right when President Obama was elected and joined all the crazy people stockpiling guns like squirrels to acorns just because "gub'ment gon' take mah rights!"

And stop trapping me! I knew it didn't matter how I answered that question you'd retaliate. Something kept flashing at me saying "Danger, Will Robinson", but I figured I'd answer honestly anyway =p

You might be surprised to hear that I lived in WI for 3 years with an ex and actually bought him a gun cabinet for christmas one year. We lived in the north, and he was an avid hunter. I don't have a fear of guns in general. Again, my argument is not that all guns should all disappear forever, but that they have a time and a place, and that there are certain models that don't belong in the hands of your average citizen.

[Spazz]

Jared Loughner was a 'law abiding citizen'. Law abiding enough to legally purchase a 9mm semi-automatic Glock that allowed him to kill 6 people, including a 9 year old child.

He was also a total fuckin loon. We might have gotten off lucky with 6 dead. What if he decided a bomb was the way to go ?

Drugs only hurt those who choose to partake

Dont get me wrong Im for adults doing what they want with their own bodies but other people get hurt by drug use and abuse besides the user. Broken homes accidents and all types of abuse and hurt feelings can be found near anyone who abuses.

and that there are certain models that don't belong in the hands of your average citizen.

Im sure you would put my pistol of choice on that list.

If there are stricter regulations against guns, is that really impeding your freedom?

If I cant carry or own my glock than yes I think it is.


Has your dad done anything with his gun or do you just not like his logic for getting one? People like me and maybe your dad are " freaking out" because we dont want a right we see as important taken away from us.

Would you really feel unsafe and less free if you and I were sitting in the same room and you new I was carrying my .45 ? Im not trying to trap you I just get gung ho when this subject comes up because its something I feel very strongly about. Im sure I cant change your opinion but I think your logic is flawed.

[brinstar]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand