Arizona

[Narrock]

Does anybody here know a lot about Arizona? Taxes and the cost of living in California is skyrocketing out of control. I would be able to keep my job if we move to Arizona. Also, my wife can do a lateral transfer to Arizona with her company (Blue Shield of California) which is "Blue Cross Blue Shield" in Arizona. BCBS is based in Phoenix which I know gets hotter than hell, but they have positions which allow you to work from home and they even pay $45/mo. toward your internet service. Compared to Northern California, houses are cheaper, taxes are less, and the upper elevation areas are beautiful... like Show Low, Snowflake, and Holbrook. Flagstaff is also gorgeous, but it gets too much snow for my liking. Anyway, bottom line is that we will have a better quality of life in Arizona than where we are now near Sacramentard. I also have cousins in Tucson and Sierra Vista. I was just wondering if any of you had some additional insight about Arizona.

[Zanchief]

They hate Mexicans there. You'll fit right in.

[Narrock]

They hate Mexicans there. You'll fit right in.

I don't hate Mexicans. My best friend is 100% Mexican. Go fuck yourself. I hate you. Anyway, you're probably mixing up "hating Mexican's" with people who are sick of illegal mexicans crossing the border and fucking up Arizona's economy and committing horrendous crimes. Again, go fuck yourself. Moron.

[Narrock]

Hmmm... we love this house.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1801- ... 7655_zpid/

[Phlegm]

highest income tax rate for arizona is 4.5% while for california is over 10%.

[Drem]

"illegal immigrants paid 11.2b in taxes last year, unlike GE, which paid zero"

[Narrock]

Cost of Illegal Immigration Rising Rapidly in Arizona, Study Finds

By Ed Barnes

Published May 17, 2010

Reuters

Arizona’s illegal immigrant population is costing the state’s taxpayers even more than once thought -- a whopping $2.7 billion in 2009, according to researchers at the public interest group that helped write the state's new immigration law.

Researchers at FAIR – The Federation for American Immigration Reform show a steady cost climb in multiple areas, including incarceration, education and health, in the last five years.

FAIR’s cost estimates – compiled for a comprehensive national immigration report it plans to release next month – include several new cost areas, including welfare and the justice system, that weren’t in previous reports.

FAIR admits that the cost to implement the new law in some of those categories, such as incarceration, will add to the economic strain on the state. But overall, it says, the loss of immigrants either from the deterrent effect of the law, voluntary exodus or from mass deportations, will help the state financially.

Also, the savings to the state will far overwhelm any fallout from boycotts (estimated at between $7 million and $52 million) being threatened in the wake of the law's passage, according to FAIR spokesman Bob Dane.

FAIR's new breakdown shows that illegal immigrants take $1.6 billion from Arizona's education system, $694.8 million from health care services, $339.7 million in law enforcement and court costs, $85.5 million in welfare costs and $155.4 million in other general costs.

[Narrock]

"illegal immigrants paid 11.2b in taxes last year, unlike GE, which paid zero"

Jefferey Immilt, CEO of GE, is a CLOSE personal friend of your savior Obama. If you're mad at GE getting away with not paying taxes, then get mad at the hypocritical democratic party and certain puppet-masters who are influencing barry and stuffing HIS pockets with fat knots of cash in return for tax protections. But I'm sure you'll find a way to place the blame on Bush.

[Arlos]

Not going to get into the political debate here. (though, Mindia, FAIR isn't exactly a non-partisan unbiased source to be quoting figures from)

I actually grew up in Phoenix for several years when I was a kid, so I have some experience with the place.

First, when you say you know it's hot... No, you don't know. Seriously, you don't. You've never experienced anything like it, I guarantee you. Nothing against you, in any way, it's just that NO ONE knows what it's like unless they've lived it. Be prepared for having the temp be over 110 for weeks at a a time, because it happens every summer. Be prepared for days that crack 120. You WILL set your air conditioner for probably about 80-85 degrees, and it will feel absolutely freezing cold at that temp when you come in from outside. You will need to drape a towel over your steering wheel when you park your truck or car for any length of time, otherwise the direct heat from the sun outside will make it so hot that you can burn your hands on it. It's true, the humidity is miniscule most of the time, which helps, but as the area has grown, human activities/settlement have lead to a rise in sources of water vapor, so it gets muggier now than it used to. Note that it'll still probably be about 5-15%, but it does get higher than that these days sometimes.

Another issue is that the Phoenix area is absolutely overrun with the geriatric set. Lots of people come from Northern states to retire there. Indeed, Sun City, right next to Phoenix, was one of the first large housing communities in the nation that had a minimum age of 55+. Utilities crews literally get hazard pay to go in there to work. In order to protect the workers, they will park 4-5 of those big bright orange utility trucks in a row in front of manholes that are getting worked on, and will lose multiple trucks every year because of ancient drivers plowing into them. Also, they tend to be very NIMBYish, and by the time we left, they were undercutting school funding because, "hey, we're old, we don't have kids, so why should we contribute to schools funding?"

Two very strong suggestions in house-hunting if you go to the Phoenix area: 1) Get a place with a pool. You will NOT regret it. Gets very very old being cooped up all day in an air-conditioned box, because it's too hot to do anything outside. If you have a pool, though, you have something you CAN do outside, even in the middle of summer. Not to mention, given how much of the year is hot, you can use the pool over a significant stretch of the year, and you do NOT need to spend money on power to heat it, trust me. rofl. 2) Make sure your garage is attached, because you will want your cars kept cool via your AC. Trust me, you do not just get in and drive off in a car that has been baking in 112 degree sun for hours. You will literally burn your ass on the seats, your hands on exposed surfaces, etc. Not to mention, that excess heat can rapidly weather the car, giving you cracked plastic, leather, etc. years before you might otherwise get it. So yeah, attached garage.

Oh, be prepared for the scenery to be not much but various shades of brown, ocher, etc. There's very very little green around, really. I don't even remember much in the way of lawns, simply because it uses way way way too much water to keep lawns from going dead. Well, OK, lots of people have cactus in their lawns, and those can be kinda green...

That house you posted might miss some of the worst of Phoenix issues, since it's up in the mountains more. You will have to deal with the issues of being so far in BFE, though. To be quite honest, though, I'm not sure what living up there would be like. I lived directly in Phoenix itself. Looks like a hella long commute from there into Phoenix, though, and potentially long drives to get your child to school.

All that said, Phoenix isn't a bad place to live, actually. Given my choice between there and somewhere else I lived a child, Wichita, KS, I'd take Phoenix in a heartbeat. (and I'll take Wichita and nuke it into radioactive glass, thanks, what a utter fucking hellhole.) If you want to go, by all means, you may well like the social climate better than you like it where you are near Sacramento. Just be warned about everything that'll go into living there before you go. I'd strongly suggest taking an actual visit in June/July during a 110+ week when you do your house-hunting, etc. just so you REALLY know.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Thanks Arlos! Yeah, one of my other good friends lived in Phoenix too, and he said that in the summer, the kids didn't even sleep in their rooms upstairs because of the heat. /pass Show Low is a 3-hour drive from Phoenix, and my wife would only have to make the trip once a month if she got the telecommute position. It's pretty depressing to think that I can move into a 55+ community in 10 years... Especially since I started playing EQ when I was 33.

[Harrison]

"illegal immigrants paid 11.2b in taxes last year, unlike GE, which paid zero"

I can make up numbers, too. If they're not documented, how do they imagine up these numbers?

[brinstar]

"illegal immigrants paid 11.2b in taxes last year, unlike GE, which paid zero"

I can make up numbers, too. If they're not documented, how do they imagine up these numbers?

http://immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts ... -taxes-too

"they" just happen to be ITEP and IPC, both non-partisan public information research groups

[Harrison]

I'm not against them, by any means, I'm just curious where the numbers come from.

I don't trust statistics anymore since it's just a fancy tool used to sway people's opinions now. They're usually skewed and colored in every which way imaginable.

[brinstar]

yeah i get your point

but categorically waving away all statistics simply because they CAN be used to manipulate people's opinions seems just as foolish as believing any statistic you hear. the truth is almost always there - you just have to suss out who's spinning the stats and what they have to gain by it before you can see it.

case in point: now that you know where the stats in question come from, you may form your own opinion as to what they mean (or don't mean, as the case may be)

[Narrock]

We just got back from a nice 10-day vacation to Mono Lake, Death Valley, Hoover Dam, all over Arizona and back to Sac. After spending a week in Arizona it was hard coming back. Arizona rocks. Best place in Arizona imo was Sedona. Here's some pics.

Mono Lake, CA


Mono Lake, CA


Death Valley, CA


Death Valley, CA


Hoover Dam


Hoover Dam


Sedona, AZ


Sedona, AZ


Sedona, AZ


Tombstone, AZ


Tombstone, AZ


Tombstone, AZ


Tombstone, AZ


Tombstone, AZ


Spelunking at the Desert Museum in So. Tucson


Lexi checking out a rattlesnake at the Desert Museum


Lexi checking out another type of rattler at the Desert Museum


Petrified National Forest, AZ


Grand Canyon (South Rim)


Grand Canyon (South Rim)


Bearizona, a drive-thru wildlife park in Williams, AZ


More Bearizona


More Bearizona


My wife Veronique and Lexi at Circus Circus Las Vegas



Overall an A++ trip. We'll definitely do it again, just modify it a little next time. Like, we'll leave out the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert,Tombstone, and Vegas, but stay a couple more days in Sedona and Grand Canyon.

[Arlos]

Yep, Arizona can be pretty stunningly gorgeous if you can appreciate it's rather stark-edged beauty. I will say that you may have found parts of arizona slightly less charming two months from now when it's 115 out. rofl.

Anyway, one thing I have always wanted to do, and WILL do one of these years is go white water rafting through the Grand Canyon. I loved looking at the Canyon from up top, I can only imagine how amazing it would be to be floating through the middle of it.

BTW, dunno if you're still considering moving there, but in case you are, I spoke to my parents about living in Phoenix/Arizona in general since obviously there would be stuff I didn't know/remember since I was only 7 when we left. They had 2 extra pieces of information to pass on: 1) Whatever house you buy, make sure it's only 1 story. Or, at worst, a main floor and a basement. Any 2nd floor room gets so hot in the summer as to be completely and totally unusable. 2) It's true house prices are much cheaper there, but utility prices are NOT. Plus, since you will be burning so much energy cooling your house (and heating it in the winter, depending on where you are), that you make up a huge portion of that cost of living gap, so that it's not anywhere near as big a difference as you might think.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Yep, Arizona can be pretty stunningly gorgeous if you can appreciate it's rather stark-edged beauty. I will say that you may have found parts of arizona slightly less charming two months from now when it's 115 out. rofl.

Anyway, one thing I have always wanted to do, and WILL do one of these years is go white water rafting through the Grand Canyon. I loved looking at the Canyon from up top, I can only imagine how amazing it would be to be floating through the middle of it.

BTW, dunno if you're still considering moving there, but in case you are, I spoke to my parents about living in Phoenix/Arizona in general since obviously there would be stuff I didn't know/remember since I was only 7 when we left. They had 2 extra pieces of information to pass on: 1) Whatever house you buy, make sure it's only 1 story. Or, at worst, a main floor and a basement. Any 2nd floor room gets so hot in the summer as to be completely and totally unusable. 2) It's true house prices are much cheaper there, but utility prices are NOT. Plus, since you will be burning so much energy cooling your house (and heating it in the winter, depending on where you are), that you make up a huge portion of that cost of living gap, so that it's not anywhere near as big a difference as you might think.

-Arlos

Lol yeah, F Phoenix. If we moved to Arizona, Sedona would be our top choice. Show Low was nice too because it was in the White Pine mountains... mountain beauty with lower temps. I saw a bear run across the freeway near Show Low. My wife and I like single story houses better anyway, so that's what we'd get most likely. Sedona has a rather mild climate in comparison to Phoenix. It was like 75-78, and in the winter they do get a dusting of snow, which I don't mind at all. We had more snow in Reno in winter.

[Maeya]

Sedona is gorgeous. We took a vacation there in April and stayed for about a week. Amazing hikes and the scenery is to die for. I believe that the housing prices in Sedona are a bit more than elsewhere in AZ, however your utility bills would be slightly less than living in the lowland. I would be very jealous of you if you moved to Sedona. I adore the area and would love to live there. Flagstaff would also be an option if you considered Sedona. I know you originally said you were shying away from it because of the snow, but really it's only about 30 minutes up the road, and housing may be less expensive.

[Narrock]

Sedona is gorgeous. We took a vacation there in April and stayed for about a week. Amazing hikes and the scenery is to die for. I believe that the housing prices in Sedona are a bit more than elsewhere in AZ, however your utility bills would be slightly less than living in the lowland. I would be very jealous of you if you moved to Sedona. I adore the area and would love to live there. Flagstaff would also be an option if you considered Sedona. I know you originally said you were shying away from it because of the snow, but really it's only about 30 minutes up the road, and housing may be less expensive.

Hi Maeya, yeah we loved Sedona. Did you go to the energy Vortex's? One has a deep crack in the earth's crust and you can feel the energy coming out of the earth. Or the chapel built on the rock? Such a cool area. I did a realtor.com search of Sedona, and it looks like you can get a 3bdrm/2ba for 250-350k. Flagstaff is acceptable, but it took like 54 minutes from there to Sedona down that winding mountain road. That commute would get old fast if you had to do it twice a day. Anyway, it's such an amazing place. The spiritual feeling there is pretty intense.

[Gaazy]

Fuck Arizona, hop in the car and head over here. Too fucking hot o er yonder. I'll get you a job underground or on a high wall startin at good money yos

[Narrock]

Fuck Arizona, hop in the car and head over here. Too fucking hot o er yonder. I'll get you a job underground or on a high wall startin at good money yos

lol /pass I'll stick to safe work like hauling a 48' propane cylinder.

[Maeya]

I think we unintentionally went to the vortexes. We didn't seek them out, but we did a hike at Airport Mesa, Cathedral Rock and Bell Rock. One of the other hikers we met there asked if we felt the vortex at Bell Rock, so apparently we hit some areas where they were supposed to be located. Didn't see any big cracks in the ground. I didn't feel particularly energized, but I will say I didn't feel nearly as tired as I thought I would have after hiking and climbing all day. However, 2 days later in Las Vegas, my thighs were screaming at me and I wanted to cry walking up and down stairs.

Did not see the church built right into the rock. Wanted to, but ran out of time with all the other amazing sights.

Yeah, Flagstaff takes a bit to get there with the winding road and slower speeds, but what do you mean by a commute? Would you plan on working in Sedona? Or just to go down and hike/visit?

[Narrock]

Oh, I meant if we lived in Sedona and had to commute to Flagstaff or vice-versa.

[Maeya]

Oh I gotcha. I really think you couldn't go wrong with either area. Both were amazing!

By the way, I can't believe how big your little girl is already. She looks like she had a great time

[Narrock]

She was so good on the trip. She never whined once. She loves going bye bye She'll be 2 on August 9th.