Trump 2012

[Narrock]

Every time I hear him speak I do get all fired up, but he needs to stop with the birther thing already... it's getting kind of old now. We all know barry was born in Kenya... let it go already. I hope he chooses a credible running mate though. And keep focusing on straightening out OPEC and China... to make them engage in fair trade or tell them to pound sand. That will be a sure-fire ticket to the White House and start undoing all the damage barry has already done to America.

[Lyion]

Gotta love Trumps cred:

Here's a few of his political contributions:
$20,350 to Charles Rangel
$9,900 to Chuck Schumer
$9,400 to Harry Reid
$9,000 to various Kennedys, mainly Ted.
$5,500 to John Kerry

I'm sure the fact he has had multiple business' go bankrupt and leveraged the tax code to make money off of those will also help his campaign.

As will his fact-less birther garbage that the media loves but really just helps the DNC.

Trump has stated in interviews numerous times what the country needs is a single payer system for health care reform, which is exactly what the GOP is using as their wedge issue against Obamacare.

Trump at worst is a Manchurian candidate, and at best is just stroking his ego. He's essentially another Steve Forbes, without the brains, common sense, or any sort of real vision.

[Drem]

arnold schwarzenegger

jesse ventura

and i'm not just talkin about Predator

[brinstar]

piece of shit, infectious human waste, etc

[Nusk]

considering his birther conversion happened right before his announcement. This run is nothing more than a marketing ploy

[Tossica]

Haha, retardlicans are retarded.

[Gypsiyee]

lol

bless your heart, mindia. knew i could count on you to be one of 3 people in the universe to take this seriously

[Spazz]

Im seriously convinced mindia is not a real person.

[brinstar]

Haha, retardlicans are rrreeeaaaalllllyyyyy retarded. And also evil.

[Lyion]

[Narrock]

lol

bless your heart, mindia. knew i could count on you to be one of 3 people in the universe to take this seriously

Gyps, here's how I see it... I know it seems like a circus because of his celebrity status, but he is an intelligent man (I don't see why Lyion says he's stupid /shrug) he is a smart businessman, and he will straighten out our foreign relations with China and OPEC. I also like that he has an education in business, not law. And I also believe that Trump is the only one who can beat barry. Now, if Trump chooses a tea party candidate or other prominent and well-respected conservative, then that will be an inarguably winning team. Don't forget how Schwarzenegger won as governor in Cali because of his celebrity status...

America needs to be run like a business again to get back on our feet. I am willing to accept a candidate who is "moderate" or "progressive" as far as social issues are concerned, only because right now what we need is a HARDCORE FISCAL CONSERVATIVE to turn things around... to SAVE America, and make America become a super power again. Barry is fucking this country up so bad, and spending and spending like he has an unlimited bank account and blank checks. I'm sick of his bullshit. He ran the national debt from 9.4 trillion (at the end of W's term) to over 14 trillion in less than 2.5 years. Just think how much more damage this fuckbag is going to do by the end of his term, let alone if he gets re-elected.

So yes, I am willing to back a celebrity, but not because of celebrity status, but because Trump has friends in foreign countries and he will make sure we have fair trading from that point forward. I honestly believe this.

I hope you appreciate the fact that I'm being serious and respectful, and not being a troll or douche right now. lol

[Gypsiyee]

America needs to be run like a business again to get back on our feet. I am willing to accept a candidate who is "moderate" or "progressive" as far as social issues are concerned, only because right now what we need is a HARDCORE FISCAL CONSERVATIVE to turn things around... to SAVE America, and make America become a super power again. Barry is fucking this country up so bad, and spending and spending like he has an unlimited bank account and blank checks. I'm sick of his bullshit. He ran the national debt from 9.4 trillion (at the end of W's term) to over 14 trillion in less than 2.5 years. Just think how much more damage this fuckbag is going to do by the end of his term, let alone if he gets re-elected.

Okay--but Romney is also a business man, and ran MA with very similar goals to Pres. Obama, especially by way of healthcare... though for the past few years, he sure doesn't want anyone to know it.

To address the president's spending, I could have this conversation a million times but it always seems to boil down to the fact that people who pinpoint the spending never seem to acknowledge the extenuating circumstances resulting in the spending or that the previous president as a last measure of business also got that ball rolling with TARP. Though I'll agree that not all of it was necessary, it's really difficult to converse about "spend spend spend" as if it's a black and white situation because it's not. The non-partisan CBO released last year that an estimated 3 million jobs have been created as a result of his initiatives. He's put together numerous bi-partisan teams to brainstorm means of deficit reduction over the course of the years to come and comparing his spending to any era aside from that of the Great Depression would be an irrational comparison. Evaluating his expenditures in the short term is the wrong thing to do considering that much of the spending was a culmination of short and long term goals that cannot be reflected upon for years to come.

So yes, I am willing to back a celebrity, but not because of celebrity status, but because Trump has friends in foreign countries and he will make sure we have fair trading from that point forward. I honestly believe this.

Has nothing to do with celebrity.. as you recall, the messiah of tea party supporters was also an actor before he was president. My qualms with Trump have much more to do with his questionable allegiances and political alignments over the years.. his political platform is ambiguous, at best. He, like Romney, seems to be campaigning on the flavor of the week and neglecting to acknowledge past actions.

I don't view him as a credible candidate who's doing anything more than garnering publicity.. to me, he's just another Palin, albeit far wealthier and more intelligent. I don't believe for a second that his agenda would be of benefit to anyone but the top 5%, because that's all he knows how to be. Could he potentially get us back in the black eventually? Maybe (at other extreme costs)--but being the president takes a whole lot more than simple financial and profiteer savvy, and putting a bandaid fix on one item while neglecting all others will just loop us back into the same cycle.

[Lyion]

Obama ignored the Simpson/Bowles deficit reduction commission until the polls said he should address it recently. He completely ignored all their recommendations over the last year which is why our debt jumped from 10 Trillion to 14 trillion during his presidency with Democrat majorities with huge deficit projections for the future under his leadership.

Your CBO jobs figures are also hazy. The 1 trillion stimulus was a failure and is a big reason the Dems got rolled in 2010 in my opinion. Many independents did not approve of it, and fear the current hole from the orgy of spending that has occurred. Obama's current budget just for this year has almost a 2 trillion deficit. The economy has started to turn around due to some balance in DC and less regulation and anti business policies emerging. The economy in all honesty has little to do with government. DC can screw it up by spending so much and being so fiscally irresponsible S&P downgrades them.

Obama's current hypothetical deficit reduction plan calls for reducing spending mostly 10+ years out which is not relevant, when our debt is over 25 trillion.

In regards to Trump, he is a ruthless businessman who has done well selling and leveraging bankruptcy and trading. I've watched many interviews with the guy, and he can't spout policy or discuss the complexities of the current issues. He does not have a deep understanding of the legislative issues like a Paul Ryan does or any sort of vision a la Steve Forbes and flat tax, or a simple constitutional seperation like Ron Paul. He is merely a self important gasbag leveraging his fame. He's a pure populist in love with himself. He can't hold Ross Perot's jock, and I expect him to get trounced or bow out when the real games begin.

Like or dislike Obama the guy is smart, knows the issues, has been consistent on his desire to make America into a Big Government state probably with a VAT and more social and entitlement programs. His positions have not changed, outside of trying to appear more mainstream, which is what every politician does. Trump is a walking contradiction in terms from his wholesale change of political positions, to his overnight conversion to being pro life, to his dislike of Obamacare, something he supported just a few years ago.

[Gypsiyee]

Hazy in that I didn't name the exact figures cited, perhaps, which is why I said estimated. But not hazy in that it was taken directly from the CBO--which is non-partisan.

Estimating the law’s overall effects on employment
requires a more comprehensive analysis than can be
achieved by using the recipients’ reports. Therefore, looking
at recorded spending to date along with estimates of
the other effects of ARRA on spending and revenues,
CBO has estimated the law’s impact on employment and
economic output using evidence about the effects of previous
similar policies and drawing on various mathematical
models that represent the workings of the economy.
On that basis, CBO estimates that ARRA’s policies had
the following effects in the fourth quarter of calendar year
2010:
 They raised real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic
product (GDP) by between 1.1 percent and
3.5 percent,
 Lowered the unemployment rate by between
0.7 percentage points and 1.9 percentage points,
 Increased the number of people employed by between
1.3 million and 3.5 million, and
 Increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs by
1.8 million to 5.0 million compared with what would
have occurred otherwise, as shown in Table 1.
(Increases in FTE jobs include shifts from part-time to
full-time work or overtime and are thus generally
larger than increases in the number of employed
workers).

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/120xx/doc120 ... 3-ARRA.pdf

As far as Simpson/Bowles, I'm not sure what you mean by the president ignoring the commission since it was a commission that he created and the "Moment of Truth" release summarizing their findings wasn't put out (publicly, anyway) until December that I'm aware.

I agree with most of the rest of what you said (aside from some of the hyperbole and typical association of the average leftist agenda with government takeover and handouts).

[Lyion]

As far as Simpson/Bowles, I'm not sure what you mean by the president ignoring the commission since it was a commission that he created and the "Moment of Truth" release summarizing their findings wasn't put out (publicly, anyway) until December that I'm aware.

A red herring. he had the numbers long before that. This was discussed last year when the Dems who controlled the legislature and executive punted having a real budget and continued their spending spree trying to mask things for the election season. It's not like the massive deficit was hidden or fiscal responsibility was solely the province of these few people putting out a report.

In regards to the CBO report on jobs, that is recent jobs which isn't aggregate to the stimulus and many economists don't find any correlation except in the gains in public sector jobs which will require more expenditures from taxpayers. As I've said attributing any private sector growth to the stimulus is hazy. The economy is not based on the government. If it was you'd surely be a huge President Bush supporter as growth and unemployment were great during his tenure, and have been awful during Obama's which followed 4 years of Democrat legislative control. Anyways, we'll see if the economy can sustain the growth needed to get anywhere near the 8% that was promised two years ago for the 'recovery' act.

In the last three years after saying the debt is what kept him up at night he increased the average budget from $2.9 trillion in 2008 to $3.8 trillion, and his answer in the future is more expensive entitlements and 'investments'

President Obama completely ignored any deficit reduction in his last budget, adding 1.6 Trillion to the deficit, and is also ignoring it in his 2012 budget projections. He went kicking and screaming to lower 38B from that 1.6+ trillion deficit. Not exactly an act that would give any fiscal moderates a feeling he wanted to enact any real change in spending there. Everyone knows the only way to fix the budget is to tackle entitlements, but it's also political suicide with so few people caring about the fiscal health of the nation, and just desiring more money in their pot.

I actually like Obama's plans for health care reform, but the problem is they pushed through a terrible bill for political reasons due to knowing they were going to be trounced in the elections due to senior ire. The real truth is the only way to fix the budget is to reign in entitlements but anytime someone tries they are demagogued by the other side, and subsequently voted out due to that group of kingmakers: The AARP crowd.

[Gypsiyee]

Everyone knows the only way to fix the budget is to tackle entitlements

...or defense spending, where waste runs rampant. (and I say that as a DoD employee)

as for the rest, we could go back and forth but never get anywhere since most of it is a matter of opinion and perception, and we've all seen that dog and pony show as many times as we've seen gun control and religious discussions on this forum

[Lyion]

Everyone knows the only way to fix the budget is to tackle entitlements

...or defense spending, where waste runs rampant. (and I say that as a DoD employee)

as for the rest, we could go back and forth but never get anywhere since most of it is a matter of opinion and perception, and we've all seen that dog and pony show as many times as we've seen gun control and religious discussions on this forum

Lot's of waste. However spending is and should be static sans bloated bad pet project contracts from the legislature. It also should go down once we get completely out of the Middle Eastern wars, if ever.



Entitlements are scarier

[Spazz]

Why is "entitlement" spending so high and getting higher?

[Lyion]

People live longer. Medical expenses are much higher. Social Security has been robbing Peter to pay Paul, and pays out far more than it takes in now. Anything run by government is bloated, inefficient and expensive be it the military or entitlements.

Most importantly: old people want your money, hate you, and vote en masse. They pretty much own both political parties.

[Spazz]

It would seem stop fighting endless wars and a slight raise on the social security tax would correct that problem. That isnt going to happen though.

I dont like any of them. Obama trump bush romney whoever. Its the same shit on a different day. The policies that are wrecking the country never get changed.

My dream candidate would end the wars. CLose half of our off shore bases, Tell the world to solve its own problems, End free trade and put in protection laws wich i hope would create more decent jobs so less need for food stamps and welfare , End the waste of money and jobs program for the police known as the war on drugs, Force companies that work and sell shit in the us to pay taxes, make laws that are hardcore enforced about bribing public officials and lobbying and socialize health care.

Im tired of voting for shit candidates with the same ideas repackaged year in and year out. I think both parties have become pretty much one in the same. Both sides say different lies but they get they money from the same places.

[Lyion]

Outside of healthcare, Your dream candidate is Ron Paul, Spazz.

He pretty much covers everything else you just stated. Your positions swing pretty wild there, from libertarian to socialist, though.

Note, I'm not a fan of his, but there are probably others who are here.

[Tuggan]

Outside of healthcare, Your dream candidate is Ron Paul, Spazz.

He pretty much covers everything else you just stated.

Ahh... no, not at all.

[Spazz]

No Ron Paul is a loon.The saying goes that a broken watch is right twice a day. Im not with him privatization of everything.I think getting rid of minimum wage is a horrible idea. I think the words free market are a sham. I think what is going on in our country right this second is proof that banks and Business meed to be regulated like a mother fucker.

Ron Paul is not my man at all. I do like Bernie Sanders quite a bit but a highly doubt he will be president ever.

[Tikker]

, End free trade and put in protection laws wich i hope would create more decent jobs so less need for food stamps and welfare

in response, everyone stops selling you oil

[Spazz]

I didnt say no trade I said fair trade instead of free trade.