SOE / PSN services resuming

[Drem]

A simple question Toss: Why is Apple's market cap <value> higher than Microsofts?

Likewise, why is Apple making more money than MS, with projections for the gap to widen?

As of today people prefer smartphones, tablets, and mobile devices over PCs. The ipad will continue to own the tablet market and it'll grow faster and eat more PC marketshare.

because they cost five times more than equivalent PCs and have tons of rich people by the collar with their trendy advertising that buy their college-bound kids ipads and iphones and imacs like pieces of candy? it doesn't really bother me. i don't hate macs or anything, i own an ipod touch, but as a gamer i would never buy a mac. ipads are slick and convenient, so i'd consider that. and that's that.

and that divide, and other things, are what'll keep microsoft and apple around forever. i'm glad there are options. i don't know why people care about debating the differences, or about debating what's the "best" machine, or what the fuck ever

[Tossica]

A simple question Toss: Why is Apple's market cap <value> higher than Microsofts?

Likewise, why is Apple making more money than MS, with projections for the gap to widen?

MS has 9billion shares in the market. Apple has 900million. There's one reason.

Apple makes money off the overpriced hardware, the OS, the app store, etc. They have a ridiculously profitable model and there are a ridiculous amount of people standing in lines to buy their gadgets. Unfortunately for Apple, the business world runs on real computers and Apple doesn't have a product for that market yet.

[Zanchief]

Lyion reminds me of Disco Stu in 1979....if these trends continue!

I'll be sure to hang around dumpsters to pick up a few desktops as people toss them out in exchange for awesome iTunes enabled iPads.

[Lyion]

You are missing the forest for the trees here. If the analogy you are using were valid, GM would own the auto marketplace due to their huge amount of vehicles out in the world. Opinions are nice, but facts and numbers are better. The numbers state Apple is worth more than MS. The tablet market is selling on par with the PC market, and that smartphones and mobile devices are getting more and more popular. MS still has a cashcow in their OS monopoly, but one wonders how long they can sell a very similar product over and over and bank coin with it.

Apple's business model is no different than the Xbox and their marketplace which is even more of a boondoggle. Yet, you have love for one and hate for the other. Xbox Live is by far a much bigger ripoff, since they charge you to solely use instant messaging and multiplayer built into games.

Hi Zanchief, I was thinking of you as I watched the idiot page in Canada disrupt the Speech from the Throne. I'm sure since your reality is based in video games and caricatures she is superb and as appealing to you as referencing a Simpsons character about discussions of sales trends and growth patterns. How typical.

[Tossica]

I think the point YOU are missing is all of the other businesses that have stake in the PC market. HP, Dell, IBM, Toshiba, Sony, etc. Microsoft is just a partner.

The only one that makes money off of an Apple is Apple. While their profitability as a company is impressive, they are still only small sliver of market share when it comes down to it.

[Lyion]

MS still have a monopoly on the OS marketplace, regardless of if they aren't involved in the less lucrative PC hardware market.

Apple chooses to support their hardware and software as one platform. Again, that's a design choice. Adding an OEM third party seller does not again change the simple stats based on aggregates of sales or growth.

I think the one company solution on a desktop PC is bad, which is why MS won that battle. However, their phone and tablet endeavors have failed because the opposite is true on mobile platforms. It might be why they are handcuffing their tablet sales in a 'closed' Apple manner. So much for their open partner practices

http://onlyhardwareblog.com/2011/06/mic ... r-choices/

[Tossica]

What the fuck are you even talking about?

[Drem]

a bunch of pointless shit from what i can tell

[Lyion]

Let me rephrase this for you:

I think the point YOU are missing is all of the other businesses that have stake in the PC market. HP, Dell, IBM, Toshiba, Sony, etc. Microsoft is just a partner.

The only one that makes money off of an Apple is Apple. While their profitability as a company is impressive, they are still only small sliver of market share when it comes down to it.

No, they aren't. They aren't because the ipad is eating large chunks of PC marketshare. That was my whole point.

Most end users do not give a fuck if it's Apple or MS & HP. What the fuck does this post have to do with the price of bread in China and the fact Apple is wtfpwning MS in sales and growth due to tablets?

MS has 9billion shares in the market. Apple has 900million. There's one reason.

Apple makes money off the overpriced hardware, the OS, the app store, etc

What does Jack's 486 have to do with the fact MS is getting crushed in the mobile phone market which is hugely profitable? Most people buying ipads or iphones have a PC. So what? Does the fact I own a Dakota mean I'm not going to buy a different model? What you are saying is also Xbox Live, except the idiots at MS have lost billions on 360s due to the RROD. Fortunately, dumbfucks continue to pay them to play multiplayer games on their own Internet connections.

I work with a ton of professionals, and almost every single one has an iphone or ipad. That's only going to keep going up.

[Zanchief]

Hi Zanchief, I was thinking of you as I watched the idiot page in Canada disrupt the Speech from the Throne. I'm sure since your reality is based in video games and caricatures she is superb and as appealing to you as referencing a Simpsons character about discussions of sales trends and growth patterns. How typical.

I didn't think you'd notice the obvious fallacy in your reasoning. That would involve logical thinking, which you are incapable of. I couldn’t have made it any more pedantic for you but alas, that was giving you too much credit. You play more video games then me, and have a history of taking them too seriously. I'm not sure your glass can take all these stones, cool guy.

[brinstar]

bla bla bla neither side will ever really win

but i do want to add that i am seriously enjoying my beta invite to google music - streaming my entire library from my desktop PC to literally any computer i can log onto google with (including my smartphone)? hells yes

[Tossica]

Let me rephrase this for you:

I think the point YOU are missing is all of the other businesses that have stake in the PC market. HP, Dell, IBM, Toshiba, Sony, etc. Microsoft is just a partner.

The only one that makes money off of an Apple is Apple. While their profitability as a company is impressive, they are still only small sliver of market share when it comes down to it.

No, they aren't. They aren't because the ipad is eating large chunks of PC marketshare. That was my whole point.

Most end users do not give a fuck if it's Apple or MS & HP. What the fuck does this post have to do with the price of bread in China and the fact Apple is wtfpwning MS in sales and growth due to tablets?

MS has 9billion shares in the market. Apple has 900million. There's one reason.

Apple makes money off the overpriced hardware, the OS, the app store, etc

What does Jack's 486 have to do with the fact MS is getting crushed in the mobile phone market which is hugely profitable? Most people buying ipads or iphones have a PC. So what? Does the fact I own a Dakota mean I'm not going to buy a different model? What you are saying is also Xbox Live, except the idiots at MS have lost billions on 360s due to the RROD. Fortunately, dumbfucks continue to pay them to play multiplayer games on their own Internet connections.

I work with a ton of professionals, and almost every single one has an iphone or ipad. That's only going to keep going up.

Let me know when Apple has an iphone app that will let me do everything that Windows servers and desktops allow me to do. Until then, you're comparing apples to oranges. Iphones and Ipads are popular. They are not replacing Windows as a desktop/server OS any time soon.

[Lyion]

I'm a bit surprised as a musician type you don't do more with Apple products, Tossica.

I guess it is sort of apples and oranges for a tech type, but not for most people. I think for the average user the Ipad is a great laptop replacement, and is a lot simpler to use. Outside of gaming which most people do not do, and with a keyboard which is cheaply available, the ipad is pretty much a complete laptop replacement with far more functionality. The main thing I use mine for is ebook reading as I don't do much gaming anymore.

I hadn't heard about Google Music, Brin. Sounds like Google is going after Amazon's cloud deal. Amazon gives you 5 Free GB in their cloud primarily aimed at ones music library. I just signed up for that to check it out.

[Tossica]

I'm a bit surprised as a musician type you don't do more with Apple products, Tossica.

I guess it is sort of apples and oranges for a tech type, but not for most people. I think for the average user the Ipad is a great laptop replacement, and is a lot simpler to use. Outside of gaming which most people do not do, and with a keyboard which is cheaply available, the ipad is pretty much a complete laptop replacement with far more functionality. The main thing I use mine for is ebook reading as I don't do much gaming anymore.

I hadn't heard about Google Music, Brin. Sounds like Google is going after Amazon's cloud deal. Amazon gives you 5 Free GB in their cloud primarily aimed at ones music library. I just signed up for that to check it out.

MOST people are not buying ipads to replace their PC's. They are buying them because they are a neat gadget and they can play Angry Birds and read a book on them.

It seems like MOST people aren't your typical Applehead that need the newest latest each year. I buy a new desktop every 4-5 years or so. That seems about average. I just bought a new desktop in Oct. It cost me less than an IPad would have and includes a 27" 1080p monitor. If I wanted a Mac, I would have had to spend nearly $3K for a similarly speced computer.

I'll give you a 2GB audio file and race you to a mastered CD. My $600 PC vs your $600 IPad.

Ok, GO!

[10sun]

Import pictures from your camera to your ipad...
oh wait, can't be done. Lose.

[Lyion]

Three seconds on google...

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC531ZM/A

[10sun]

That is $29 + shipping + shipping time for a dongle that you'll end up losing. Native functionality isn't there.

I'm sure you could get an optical R/W drive as well as TV-out, keyboard, and a host of other things that all come standard with most laptops.

How much would it cost to get all of those?

Plain and simple, ipads are crippled devices that prey on the simplicity of first using it, but fail the user in the long run.

[Lyion]

A simple I was wrong would suffice. You said it couldn't. It can. I connect mine to my TV all the time, too. Methinks someone does not have an ipad.

You're just mad because you can't play EQ on it. Admit it.

iPads are killing the netbook market because they are a visually superior and more user friendly portable product. They do what most people want, in a far more streamlined and convenient manner than a laptop. Cheaper, too generally. Sure, they have limitations, but they also do many things better. You won't find a decent laptop with LED-backlit with In-Plane Switching and multi touch that runs flawlessly and does what the ipad does. I have a huge XPS laptop at home, and an ipad and the laptop mostly gathers dust because it is inconvenient by comparison. It's great if I want to fire up WOW which I haven't done this year, but for almost every other basic computer function: music, movies, ebooks, email, etc, the ipad works better and faster.

Hate it or like it, it's eating PC market share. I'll admit I despise itunes, but it's a brilliant cash cow, just like Xbox Live. It's also simple and effective for the average user. It's not meant to be a desktop replacement. It is a portable multimedia center moreso. I like mine, but if I want to code or work I sit at my desk in front of my 30 inch screen and workstation.

Oh, and you can nab a new first gen ipad for 300 bucks at most Verizon stores.

Anyways more tech please. Now, someone make a frickin holodeck.

[Tikker]

the ipad is pretty much a complete laptop replacement with far more functionality.

ok, now I know you're full of shit

the ipad has MORE functionality?

not a chance in the world

the iPad is a big ipod touch
it's a nice item, but it's a step down from a real laptop

it's a niche product

there's like a couple hundred million laptops out there

there's 10x that many pc desktops

the ipad (hell add all the tablets out there together) is a teeny tiny fraction of that number


sure growth numbers look good, but when you're going from 0 to something larger than zero, they always look phenomenal

[brinstar]

I hadn't heard about Google Music, Brin.

I'm not entirely sure what the limit is (or if there is one) but i can tell you the cap is >8GB since i haven't reached it yet lol

anyway here's how it works: you take your machine that stores all of your music files (my desktop, for example) and you install the desktop app. run the app once and point it at your music folder/drive and it uploads the entire contents to the cloud - and as long as you leave the app running, it will do the same with anything you put in there (not unlike dropbox). once it's there you can stream it from literally any computer that lets you log onto google. there's obv also a companion android app that does the same, and does it WELL. what i don't know is if/how you can share streams with others - but honestly IDGAF, because for me, "crud which 2GB of songs do i want to put on my evo this week" is no longer a relevant question since my unlimited data plan lets me stream anything my desktop PC has uploaded, whether it's online or not.

so even aside from the awesomeness of having my entire music collection only a login away on literally any online computer, i also have a smartphone that can not only out-storage any mp3 player on the market but also renders the whole storage argument moot to begin with

[Lyion]

I think for the average user the Ipad is a great laptop replacement, and is a lot simpler to use. Outside of gaming which most people do not do, and with a keyboard which is cheaply available, the ipad is pretty much a complete laptop replacement with far more functionality.

Quote the whole paragraph. For the average user who wants to surf, watch videos, and check email on the go the ipad is a complete replacement. It pretty much does what most people want on the PC.

As far as more functionality, that would be from the multi touch, gyro, and accelerometer which can do more things than the average laptop, not to mention ibooks, the appstore, and GPS for the 3G models.

I'm not entirely sure what the limit is (or if there is one) but i can tell you the cap is >8GB since i haven't reached it yet lol

anyway here's how it works: you take your machine that stores all of your music files (my desktop, for example) and you install the desktop app. run the app once and point it at your music folder/drive and it uploads the entire contents to the cloud - and as long as you leave the app running, it will do the same with anything you put in there (not unlike dropbox). once it's there you can stream it from literally any computer that lets you log onto google. there's obv also a companion android app that does the same, and does it WELL. what i don't know is if/how you can share streams with others - but honestly IDGAF, because for me, "crud which 2GB of songs do i want to put on my evo this week" is no longer a relevant question since my unlimited data plan lets me stream anything my desktop PC has uploaded, whether it's online or not.

so even aside from the awesomeness of having my entire music collection only a login away on literally any online computer, i also have a smartphone that can not only out-storage any mp3 player on the market but also renders the whole storage argument moot to begin with

Sounds a bit like Picasa for photos.

I think the cloud is going to start being more and more popular for videos, photos, and music now that everyone and their brother is moving to smartphones.

I just saw this from my news this AM: Here's a good round up of the music services, I hadn't heard of the google one before:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=13776621

By The Associated Press
June 7, 2011 (AP)
iTunes in the Cloud by Apple Inc.

PRICE: Free to add purchased iTunes songs, $25 per year to scan your hard drive for songs acquired elsewhere, which are then added to your iCloud locker.

MUSIC SALES: Through the iTunes store.

AVAILABILITY: Now as a "beta," or test version. Hard drive scanning, known as iTunes Match, coming in the fall.

LICENSES WITH RECORDING COMPANIES: Yes.

DEVICES: Up to 10 — Mac, PC, iPhone, iPad or Wi-Fi capable iPods.

STORES CONTENT BESIDES MUSIC? Broader iCloud service, which is free, also synchs contact, calendar entries, photos, documents and other files.

PLAY MUSIC YOU OWN BUT DIDN'T UPLOAD: Yes, as long as iTunes can match it with one of the 18 million songs in its music store. If it's not on iTunes, you can upload it.

Google Music Beta by Google Inc.

PRICE: Free "for a limited time." No pricing announced.

MUSIC SALES: No.

AVAILABILITY: Currently by invitation only.

LICENSES WITH RECORDING COMPANIES: No.

DEVICES: Up to eight — Mac, PC or Android smartphones or tablet computers that run Flash (no iPad).

STORES CONTENT BESIDES MUSIC? No.

PLAY MUSIC YOU OWN BUT DIDN'T UPLOAD? No.

Amazon Cloud Drive and Cloud Player from Amazon.com Inc.

PRICE: Free up to 5 gigabytes, yearly plans range from $20 a year for 20 gigabytes to $1,000 for 1,000 gigabytes. U.S. customers qualify for free 20 GB storage with an album purchase through Amazon.com.

MUSIC SALES: Through Amazon.com.

AVAILABILITY: Open to anyone, requires an Amazon account.

LICENSES WITH RECORDING COMPANIES? No.

DEVICES: Up to eight — Mac, PC or Android smart phones.

STORES CONTENT BESIDES MUSIC? Documents, photos and videos.

PLAY MUSIC YOU OWN BUT DIDN'T UPLOAD: When you buy a song on Amazon it can be transferred directly to the cloud and played immediately.

[Tikker]

I think for the average user the Ipad is a great laptop replacement, and is a lot simpler to use. Outside of gaming which most people do not do, and with a keyboard which is cheaply available, the ipad is pretty much a complete laptop replacement with far more functionality.

Quote the whole paragraph. For the average user who wants to surf, watch videos, and check email on the go the ipad is a complete replacement. It pretty much does what most people want on the PC.

As far as more functionality, that would be from the multi touch, gyro, and accelerometer which can do more things than the average laptop, not to mention ibooks, the appstore, and GPS for the 3G models.

doesn't change that you're full of shit

the multi touch/gyro/accelerometer is there because it doesn't have a mouse or keyboard, and they need a way to control the thing


ibooks/appstore

really?
seriously, you're attempting to say that having access to itunes is an IPAD ONLY thing?
get your head out of your ass


hey guess what, my laptop has 3g and gps
it also has a touch screen, and multi touch trackpad

it's not a slam on an iPad to say it's a sub-form of laptop

it is

calling it a complete laptop replacement is a joke though

[Tossica]

calling it a complete laptop replacement is a joke though

He's just trying to justify the purchase of his expensive gadget.

[Lyion]

You two are so far off the point I was making it's not even funny.

gyro + accelerometer != a keyboard + mouse. Whatever, dude.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11 ... arter.html

A lot of people buying a nice laptop replacement there! MS can try to rush out Windows 8. Hopefully it'll be better than their last rushed POS, Vista. IOS 5 is looking good, too.

As far as wasting cash on gadgets, the ipad was cheap. I bet your boy would love one and play the shit out of it. The time I save with my kids from it is worth the price alone.

[Tossica]

I can post #'s too. http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bl ... onths.aspx

Looks like a few more ipads need to sell before PC's are replaced. There has to be at least a billion copies of Windows still in operation right now.

Apple has a long way to go.

My son has an iphone. People who have BOTH seriously have too much disposable income.