State of Minnesota government shuts down tonight

[Arlos]

There's no mention of an Air Force in there either, just land forces and navies. Should we scrap all our planes?

There's no mention of Cryptography either, should we disband the NSA?


Just pointing out how ridiculous your argument is.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

Lemme get this straight you think that if those ar the only things our government did our country would be super awesome? Times change as well as does what society needs.

Back in the day people didnt have bills like they do today. Back in the day folks there was still a lot of open space for you to go to do make it on your own if you were down on your luck.\

Using text from 100s of years ago to rule your life from our orig constitution to the bible iis insanity. As times change things change with the times.

Militias arent really allowed any more either, do you think we should have just anyone running around the woods with tanks and fighter planes and the ordinance to supply them ? Im a pretty staunch supporter of the right to bear arms and the idea of anyone having a stock pile of explosives in there garage gives me the willies.

The govt of the times you speak of also allowed for slavery and didnt grant women the right to vote are those also things you would like to get back to ?

Get out of here with this herp a derp argument.

[Tuggan]

herp a derp

[KaiineTN]

So why not change the constitution rather than ignore it and allow the government to get away with anything?

Spazz, there have been amendments to the constitution that have addressed those flaws. It is not a perfect document by any means, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore it. Many things change with time, but many things are timeless. The right to liberty is one thing that will never change over time, and that is what the constitution aimed to provide for Americans. If we think that it is outdated, then let's update it, but stay true to its purpose.

I do think the Federal government should be strictly limited in scope and power, and that the States and ultimately the local communities should have the most say over how the people are governed. We can debate over what responsibilities should be handled at the Federal level.

It is very dangerous to have power pooled in one central place, especially when we've evolved into a Democracy mentality rather than a constitutional Republic. As it has been said before, Democracy is nothing more than the tyranny of the majority. I believe the rights of the minority should be protected from the majority, and that that is what a government must strive to accomplish.

[Spazz]

Have you not read a history book like ever ? We did an experiment with strong states rights. It led to the most violent time in American history ever. Allowing the states to run aorund doing what ever the fuck they feel like turned out to be a major disaster.

I too believe in liberty and all that jazz but I think policies that allow the few to control most of a nations wealth is not the best path for all of us to enjoy freedom.

The constitution is more like guidelines than a document that should be followed to a t. As i said earlier I am all for the right to bear arms but think garages full of bombs is a great way for a serious accident to happen.

Im all for the freedom of speech but if your words can get someone killed. Ala yelling fire in a theatre or provoking a riot it should be prolly be limited.

When it comes to old documents sometimes its not right there in black and white and you must use your head a little bit. As far as amending the constitution its hard enough to get legislators to agree on what day of the week it is and sometimes a full blown amendment is not needed to get the law needed to function.

Life is not black and white and theres a lot of shades of gray.

Ill go back to strong states rights. Lets say Mississippi decides to bring back segregation. What do we do then .Lets say kansas decides that being gay should carry a death sentence. I use those 2 states as examples because they arent known for their progressive thinking. What do the blacks or the gays do up and move ? You want a less extreme case. Lets say another one of those bible states decides all abortions are illegal even if the mothers life is in danger and a mom i having a hard pregnancy and doesnt have the means to travel . Should she be faced with an potential death sentence ? Extreme state rights has the potential to get out of hand as HISTORY has shown . The issue of states rights was decided in the 1860s brother and it showed that it was a bad thing then and it would become a bad thing if it was allowed to be the law of the land again.

Your ideas sound awesome on paper but when you look back on history to see how they have played out they have proven to be disastrous.

Check this out .
Robber barons we did that and it sucked for most everyone
Letting states do as they please led to a war that the scars still arent healed from.
allowing segregation and discrimination see martin luthor king jim and crow and how awesome of a time that was.
Economic systems where a few have it all and everyone else is poor look at almost any third world country.

Your ( Ron Pauls) ideas are insane and have been proven to not work. You can continue to go round and round with me but thats the game dude game set and match. Thread over go to your room and eat your vegetables train say your prayers eat your vitamins its true oh its damn true if ya smell what the rock is cookin cuz stone cold said so.

[Tikker]

. Many things change with time, but many things are timeless.

Like selfish greedy fucks, will always be selfish greedy fucks


much like yourself Flink


Don't get me wrong, you're perfectly within your rights to want ONLY WHAT"S GOOD FOR YOU and FUCK EVERYONE ELSE

you just have to realise you're very likely in the minority, and if you actually got your way, you're likely going to get guillotined

the big difference between people like you, and the rest of the world is that most people realise that there's this thing called "the greater good"

sometimes you have to sacrifice a portion of your good fortune in order for the entire system to function

[KaiineTN]

What makes you think I am greedy and selfish? Break it down for me.

I want to keep what I earn. Is that selfish? If so, are you so willing to sacrifice a portion of your earnings ON YOUR OWN, not via support of higher taxation on everyone and not with incentives like tax deductions?

I want everyone to live life as freely as possible. Is that selfish? Absolutely not!

What is selfish is trying to use government to control people and have them conform to what you think is the right or best way to live. What is greedy is expecting the government to provide for you what others must work to attain.

[10sun]

What makes you think I am greedy and selfish? Break it down for me.

I want to keep what I earn. Is that selfish? If so, are you so willing to sacrifice a portion of your earnings ON YOUR OWN, not via support of higher taxation on everyone and not with incentives like tax deductions?

I want everyone to live life as freely as possible. Is that selfish? Absolutely not!

What is selfish is trying to use government to control people and have them conform to what you think is the right or best way to live. What is greedy is expecting the government to provide for you what others must work to attain.

Does the government help you earn anything?

[Spazz]

What is selfish is not paying your membership dues to your country you live in. What is selfish is not paying into the system that allows you to build wealth. Do you not use the roads, Do you not use the financial systems in place. If you were your own country and had all your own commons you might be right but you dont. Theres so many little things that the govt does that you take for granted. Roads across the entire country for goods and people to travel safety standards for your food and car ( that companies wouldnt do out of the goodness of they hearts if it cost them money mind you) standards on clean water standards on pollution and just a billion other things. You know why glock cant sell me a pistol that will blow up in my face? thats right govt standards. You know why ford cant sell me a car that explodes on impact thats right again govt standards . I could go on and on man but i just dont think you want to hear it. You dont sound like your starving to death dude and there are some who are. Pay your share be thankful your life isnt so bad and quit sounding like a spoiled child. You want to know what people think your a greedy fuck read your posts from this thread alone.

Ive already broken down for you why the things you think dont work. You ignore the history of the effects of your beliefs because that might cause you to have to rethink your positions. Go on man tell me how free people were with robber barons lording over them. Tell me about how fuckin rockin of a time it was in the united states to be a nigger during jim crow and pre cival rights. Look up the numbers of how many died for this states rights you yammer on about. Go on man tell me about how free the average individual is in a third world country with the haves and the have nots and how much liberty is going on. Another thing you might want to look into is this thing called the great depression and a man named FDR. Our country has in deep shit and he didnt fix it by telling poor people to fuck themselves. You need to get a clue a lot of your ideas have already been put into play through out history and been absolutely awful some of them are in play in other countries right this second and you can see the effects it has on the populaces .

You didnt address my last post because i blew your little fantasies out of the water. I repeated myself for you though just in case you missed me the last time around. You got nothing of your own for this argument but clips from but your Ron Paul Ann Rand cheat sheet. Your part of a cult dude and you dont even seem to know it. If your cult got what it wanted your wealth wouldnt be worth the paper it was printed on due to the chaos that would break out. Check out some history man i suggest the american civil war and the french revolution for a start. For a little light reading you might also want to check out the shock doctrine and get a real good look at high end free market capitalism . I feel for you though man isnt nothing worse in life than finding out how wrong you were about something you so strongly believed in.

[KaiineTN]

You really think government standards are necessary to ensure products work properly? lol

You think I'm against taxes for roads? lol

You really think the civil rights act is some necessary measure preventing mass racism in today's age? lol

You're mistaken about the Great Depression as well. FDR prolonged the depression, just as the policies of Bush and Obama are prolonging our pain today and not allowing the necessary corrections to occur. That might be difficult for you to consider, but you need to go beyond what is generally accepted and look into alternate viewpoints.

I know you wont bother, since you seem to be far more certain of your views than I am of mine, but here:

[Tikker]

What makes you think I am greedy and selfish? Break it down for me.

I want to keep what I earn. Is that selfish? If so, are you so willing to sacrifice a portion of your earnings ON YOUR OWN, not via support of higher taxation on everyone and not with incentives like tax deductions?

I do, as do a lot of other people. I do mine thru word (telephon pioneers) and lots do the same, some thru work, some thru church (tithing)

I want everyone to live life as freely as possible. Is that selfish? Absolutely not!

yes it is. ME ME ME ME ME is selfish.

What is selfish is trying to use government to control people and have them conform to what you think is the right or best way to live.

it's called voting in a democracy


you really that stupid?

[Spazz]

You really think government standards are necessary to ensure products work properly? lol

God damn are you a naive or what. I know your argument already too. Bet it goes a lot like this well in a true free market companies wouldnt sell you shit cuz they know youd learn it was shit and not buy it. Again we already know thats bullshit what with kids toys found with led in the paint and dog food that kills your dog and contaminated food that will make you sick and those are just a few I can name off the top of my head without really getting into it. The lust for money will make people do it to make as much as they can and the arrogance that they will get away with it wont make them think twice about it.

I see you still havent addressed the points in history as to where your ( Ron Pauls ) ideas are flawed and have failed either.

Ive given you the facts and the low down son and all youve been able to come at me with us NUH UH and ron paul/ ann rand says this. Well let me tell you this THe millions and Millions of americans think ron paul is a loon and IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK the spazz says this... you can take your little atlas shrugged book and your vote Ron Paul end the fed lets be the confederate states of america bumper stickers , shine them sum bitches up real nice and stick em straight up your candy ass.

Go look into history again about what kind of shits been gotten away with before we had strong regulations and you can look at the bull shit mighty companies get away with to this day even with them in play and your gonna tell me an absolute no holds barred free market would be best for consumers. I got a bridge to sell you, some land in florida you should check out ,and I hear there is a prince in nigeria that would love to talk to you.

Last but not least bozo Let the spazz make something perfectly clear to you YOur ideas never and the spazz means never ever would be good for the average american. you need to take a little walk down know your role boulevard ...hang that right on jabroni drive... and then proceed to check your libertarian clueless naive EWWWWWW the freee market this and the free market that candy ass directly into the smack down hotel. IF YOU SMELLLL ELLL ELL ELLL what the spazz is cookin.

[brinstar]

hoooooooly shit, epic

[Drem]

god damn these guys are clueless

keep dreaming

[Gypsiyee]

I'm not going to delve into most of this argument because honestly it's just the same dog and pony show with trust fund babies bitching about having to pay taxes on shit they didn't earn in the first place, but I do have one question out of pure curiosity.

Flink, how much did you donate in charity last year? And if you don't want to give an actual dollar amount, what percent of your income was it? Since you're banking on everyone's independent generosity to feed our needy that have fallen on hard times in this nasty mess that the deluded idealistic view of lower taxes for the rich has helped create, I imagine that your own generosity must be substantial, right?

[Drem]

he's probably the type that would win $2000 on a roll in vegas and not buy a round of drinks for his friends

somehow i doubt charity is even a part of his vocabulary

[Gypsiyee]

I tend to agree with you on that assumption, which is why I ask.

If someone is so strong in their belief that poverty prevention in our country should be solely up to an individual's discretion, then it would stand to reason that he or she isn't a contributor to the human nature that defies that very logic.

If someone believes that most individuals will help their fellow man when able, then I'd hope that that someone would also be one of those individuals vice a braying self-serving hypocrite who serves as a poster child for arguments against his or her own beliefs.

Then again, though, I find that most conservatives (read: most, not all) I've met in the past decade are the latter.

And to add--please don't list the earnings you only donate to get a tax write-off. Kind of defeats the purpose of being charitable.

[Spazz]

Hes not coming back for fear of another beating.

[Zanchief]

If someone is so strong in their belief that poverty prevention in our country should be solely up to an individual's discretion, then it would stand to reason that he or she isn't a contributor to the human nature that defies that very logic.

But it currently is the responsibility of the individual. We each vote for our respective government and we entrust them with this responsibility. The idea that the government steals money with out any oversight is just moronic.

It's like he watched a hundred YouTube clips but doesn't understand the most fundamental ideas about how the world works.

[Gypsiyee]

Well you're right about individual responsibility in that regard, but in a democracy many voices become one collective voice which eliminates *sole* discretion, which is what Flink says should be how it works.

So since he's so keen on allowing the generous nature of individuals to uplift their fellow man, I'd sure hope that he's a shining example of the generosity that he's so certain would be sufficient enough to prevent an exponential increase in woefully impoverished citizens.

Of course, we all know that isn't the case, so chances of him saying anything further are pretty slim.

[Spazz]

I told you hes not coming back to this thread.

[Tossica]

Gov shutdown finally over. I can return to work full time next Monday.

What a fucking joke. The Retardlicans sealed their own fate on this one.

[leah]

i was in minnesota very briefly this past weekend and was distraught to find all the rest areas closed (which was really problematic with dogs in the car that needed to go potty!), and apparently that was because of the shutdown? bummer. i'm glad it's over.

[Kaemon]

Gov shutdown finally over. I can return to work full time next Monday.

What a fucking joke. The Retardlicans sealed their own fate on this one.

Did they finally agree to a budget?

[Narrock]

Demotards are the biggest nay-sayers on the planet and are the cause of ALL political gridlock. Thank God we have conservatives in the Legislature to keep the demotards in check. Demotards don't care about America or it's citizens, and they have no common sense.