GOP Presidential debate #3

[Lyion]

Episode IV: The Tea Party Strikes Back

Perry was hit hard early and often, with a lot of attacks. Some huge gaffe's, but no knockouts. He appears to be reserved and trying to be overtly cautious. That hurt him here.

Romney remains teflon and completely unflappable. Is it enough to be calm, with his record of flip flopping, though?

Bachmann turns mean attack dog.. She scored some points, but looked very unpresidential. She hurt Perry, but I think hurt herself, too. If anything she helped Romney.

Cain is fun, but not a factor.

Santorum: Same as Cain, except no fun.

Paul: Very fun, but still nuts.

Gingrich: I think he's there to sell books and maybe get a talk show. I'd love to see Paul and him have their own debate with longer times for answers.

Huntsman is the wild card. He is very electable, very smart, and a decent debater. The wide open venue is hurting him the most as he's not getting the same time or exposure as Perry and Romney.

[Harrison]

Debates to me are pageants. I can't stomach them.

[Spazz]

Indeed. I know Im not going to vote for any of them and dont need the high blood pressure from listening to their stupid shit.

Lyion you talk about this debate like a ufc fight and i guess thats a big part of what i thing is wrong with politics in our country. It doesnt matter wicj of them gets the nom if they get elected they will all try to enact the same suicidal plans.

It doesnt matter which of them wins neo cons and tea bagers have both proven they are not good for the country.

Also no I dont really like Obama either so its hard to work up any emotion for this election. No matter who wins its gonna suck for us. If obama wins we get to look forward to more weak leadership and the republicans stopping everything to make the evil black socialist look bad. If the right wins we get to look forward to slashed epa cronyism favors for corperations and possible new wars with evil brown people . YAY FOR THE USA

[Harrison]

The only thing I agree with is that no matter who we get it's going to just continue to suck, overall.

The only thing that will change is who gets blamed for it.

[Arlos]

In case anyone wants fact checking on some claims by the candidates made during that debate:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ry-debate/

-Arlos

[Lyion]

Politifact is generally considered rubbish. I'd put almost all of their answers at 'half truth' and they are not unbiased despite claims otherwise.

Anyways, you linked the wrong debate, treehugger hippie dude.

[Tossica]

Politifact is considered rubbish by the people that they call out perhaps.

[Spazz]

I dont need a fact check to tell me that if im looking at a politician talking im hearing bullshit.

[Gypsiyee]

If obama wins we get to look forward to more weak leadership and the republicans stopping everything to make the evil black socialist look bad.

This is why I was so relieved to see him acting like the guy I voted for in his jobs speech. My hope is that he's starting to realize that alienating his base to appeal to people who'd vehemently oppose him even if he magically morphed into Reagan himself has been really counterproductive.

We'll have to see if he keeps that spirit going through getting the bill passed or if he reverts back into the guy that's been too afraid to hurt the republican's feelings to get anything done.

Lyion: who is politifact considered rubbish by? Biased conservative groups? Find me one non-partisan site discrediting them--good luck.

[Tossica]

The fact that all the Retardlicans can't wait for more George Bush is really frightening.

[Lyion]

I dont need a fact check to tell me that if im looking at a politician talking im hearing bullshit.

Yup. This should be an interesting election season with the economy in the tank.



In regards to Politifact, there are tons of articles on it's bias and issues. This is a good place to start:

http://bewznewznvewz.blogspot.com/2011/ ... thday.html

Just one example of politifact in action:

Last month, I wrote that President Obama’s own handpicked Council of Economic Advisors had released an estimate that the president’s economic “stimulus” had added or saved just one job for every $278,000 of taxpayer money spent. Obama’s economists said the “stimulus” had cost $666 billion to date and had added or saved 2.4 million jobs. $666 billion divided by 2.4 million is $278,000. Yet when Speaker John Boehner tweeted, “POTUS’ economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per job,” PolitiFact Ohio rated [*] his tweet as “False.” PolitiFact Texas and PolitiFact Wisconsin have chimed in with identical scoring of similar statements.

[Tossica]

You are joking, right?

[brinstar]

Indeed. I know Im not going to vote for any of them and dont need the high blood pressure from listening to their stupid shit.

Lyion you talk about this debate like a ufc fight and i guess thats a big part of what i thing is wrong with politics in our country. It doesnt matter wicj of them gets the nom if they get elected they will all try to enact the same suicidal plans.

It doesnt matter which of them wins neo cons and tea bagers have both proven they are not good for the country.

Also no I dont really like Obama either so its hard to work up any emotion for this election. No matter who wins its gonna suck for us. If obama wins we get to look forward to more weak leadership and the republicans stopping everything to make the evil black socialist look bad. If the right wins we get to look forward to slashed epa cronyism favors for corperations and possible new wars with evil brown people . YAY FOR THE USA

i pretty much agree with this word for word

[Spazz]

I think we have been finding ourselves in agreement a lot the past few days.

[Arlos]

Politifact is generally considered rubbish. I'd put almost all of their answers at 'half truth' and they are not unbiased despite claims otherwise.

Anyways, you linked the wrong debate, treehugger hippie dude.

Again, as Gyps said, point to a major media outlet slamming them, and I'll listen. A blogspot link does not exactly scream "Unbiased Media Reporting...."

You ARE right though, I linked the wrong debate. So, here's the link for the Tea Party debate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... op-debate/

-Arlos

[Drem]

on it's bias

its

[Lyion]

So, if you are a Dem and like the blatant much higher rate of judging subjective GOP things, Politifact is fair and unbiased. Got it.

Drem, really?

[Kaemon]

This is why I was so relieved to see him acting like the guy I voted for in his jobs speech.

Are you kidding me? It's the same old shit he's been pushing the past few years. The jobs act is a joke.

The reason why he sounded like the guy you voted for in his jobs speech is because what you saw that night was the begginning of his "please give me four more years" campaign.


Am I the only one that saw that?



I love the Albert Einstein quote.

[Gypsiyee]

So, if you are a Dem and like the blatant much higher rate of judging subjective GOP things, Politifact is fair and unbiased. Got it.

Drem, really?

So, the only source you can find is a blog by one author that cites statistics that republicans have more untrue ratings? in that very blog the author's only judgment is that he has no evidence of Politifact's calculus in determining that "one political party has made a disproportionately higher number of false claims than the other, and that this is subsequently reflected in the distribution of ratings on the PolitiFact site."

the author himself never even assesses a point-of-fact argument that there's bias, just that there may appear to be. And we're talking about an organization that debunked Jon Stewart for crying out loud.

So your definitive proof that there's bias is a post that states that there may appear to be bias because he couldn't find a way to prove that there isn't. Pretty weak, dude.

[Gypsiyee]

This is why I was so relieved to see him acting like the guy I voted for in his jobs speech.

Are you kidding me? It's the same old shit he's been pushing the past few years.

He hasn't been pushing any shit in the past few years.. that's why he's lost some of his base. He makes a proposal, the republicans say no way, threaten to filibuster and he walks away with his tail between his legs and says oh ok.

The jobs act is a joke.

Oh, so I see you've taken the McConnell "we'll politely listen to ideas, but we're not going bother pretending to actually entertain any of them because we've already decided it's stupid before we've heard anything" stance. It's relatively easy to call something a joke when it's not something that affects you.

If you're lucky like me, you still have a job. If you're unlucky like my sister, you're a single mother who went bankrupt as a result of the lending crisis, then lost two jobs to be unemployed for 8 months, and now play catch up with a part time job stuck on food stamps barely scraping by in a tiny one bedroom apartment because you were evicted because you were unable to make rent when you were unemployed.

guess she can shove it up her ass and have a good laugh though, because an initiative to create jobs is a joke. but oh heavens, those poor 400 people controlling more than half the wealth in the country and their minor tax increase. what a horrifying proposal for those job creators who haven't created jobs under some of the lowest tax rates they've ever had. really, my heart weeps for them.

[Kaemon]

How much more taxes do you want me to pay? I'm already paying close to .45 cents on the dollar because of where I live and work. That's nearly half my pay, I'm fucking pissed!!

I have a family and my own mortgage to pay too. I'm sorry for your sister, but I have my own problems to deal with. The problem with this country is we believe we're all elitists. Some jobs are too below us hence "we can't find jobs". Go to Monster.com, there are literally thousands of jobs in each state.

The United States can't balance a budget and continue to overspend and spend and spend but it's not my fault. We have serious problems in this country and it's going to get worse unless the reigns are pulled in.

That's besides the point, let's get back to Obama's Job Speech. How the fuck do you hold a session of congress, make a speech to the country, tell them you have this great plan call the Jobs Act and it's unbiased, and already paid for and it must be passed now!! Oh btw, I'll be back in 2 weeks to tell you about it...BULLSHIT.

Your sister should be screaming bullshit too on it. It's a political campaign because he's gonna put the same old rhetoric bullshit out, Repbulicans are going to stonewall it and we're going to get the same ole same ole, "See, the Republicans don't want you to have jobs!!" It's all political bullshit.

I want a moderate president. I want someone conservative and smart enough to take care of the social programs that are really needed. But I don't want a liberal leader either where the idea is to tax rich corporate companies, because it's private companies and small buisnessess that bring jobs. You tax them, they go away, it's that simple. The world is too small now to even think manufacturers will stay in this country if you treat them like villians. "Will the last manufacturing company in America to leave the country please turn off the lights, thank you"

I don't give a rats fuck about being a christian, if you're pro life or pro abortion, If you're Tea Party or ACORN, If you watch Fox or MSNBC. Really, who gives a rats ass. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. This country fucked up picking this guy as their leader. He really is an idiot. As a moderate conservative, I would have loved to have seen McCain and Clinton go at it. At least Clinton has had 8 years of experience supporting her.

Again, I'm a moderate. I love the middle ground, best of both worlds, we've been far too left for a long time, holy shit I thought we spent too much money during the Bush years. What the fuck did we do to ourselves in 3 years since? It's time to pull back the reigns, get our feet grounded again and then look at the big picture.

[Tossica]

I'd be fine with some more financially conservative policies in place but keep the fucking religious nut jobs and straight up evil bastards out of public office! Please let Romney win the nomination. I could live with him if it came down to it.

[Lyion]

He hasn't been pushing any shit in the past few years.. that's why he's lost some of his base. He makes a proposal, the republicans say no way, threaten to filibuster and he walks away with his tail between his legs and says oh ok.

The first part of his term he had a 60 seat majority in the Senate, control of the house, rammed through Obamacare with no GOP votes, and quite a few other unpopular bills. The bills that failed did so due to lack of Dem support, not GOP blockage, such as Cap and Trade.

The GOP has not had 60 seats and full control of EVERYTHING in your entire lifetime, Gyp. Every bill they pass has to be approved by the Dems in the Senate.

Obama doesn't walk away with his tail between his legs, he follows the LAW. The executive branch can't legislate. Even then he goes far beyond what he should do by circumventing legisation with borderline illegal executive fiats on matters such as Cap and Trade.

It almost sounds like you expect him to just ignore the legislative process and do whatever he wants. I really hope that's not what it is, but really it makes me sad that people have so little respect for how our government is supposed to function.

[Tossica]

Politics are easy.

I don't know a single "cool" Republican. I know a LOT of asshole, douche bag, wing nut and fuck head Republicans with a few decent human beings thrown in for good measure but they are generally socially retarded, politically ignorant and easy prey for Fox News. I don't know a single "cool" Tea Party member either. They all pretty much fall in line with the Republicans. Frightened, ignorant, clueless and hateful simpletons.

I know hundreds if not thousands of "cool" Democrats and Green party members and many independents as well. TRUE independents, not the right wing fascist independents that the Republicans would like to call their own.

In my book, Retardlicans lose 100% of the time.

[Gypsiyee]

How much more taxes do you want me to pay? I'm already paying close to .45 cents on the dollar because of where I live and work. That's nearly half my pay, I'm fucking pissed!!

I have a family and my own mortgage to pay too. I'm sorry for your sister, but I have my own problems to deal with. The problem with this country is we believe we're all elitists. Some jobs are too below us hence "we can't find jobs". Go to Monster.com, there are literally thousands of jobs in each state.

I can respect and agree with almost everything you said below that, so there isn't much I can add to what you said beyond the top two paragraphs.

When you say how much more in taxes do I want you to pay: I don't know your financial situation, but I'll assume that you're not one of the 400 people who control 50% of the wealth in this country so my answer is 0.

I'll also assume that you're not in the class of hedge fund managers who get to claim a capital gains rate which is significantly lower than the income tax rate, so again my answer would be 0. This president has never once recommended imposing higher taxes on anyone but those making more than $250k a year except in regards to repealing the Bush tax cuts which were explicitly written with a sunset clause just to get them passed because even then it was acknowledged that those cuts were not sustainable.

As for the second paragraph: that's all good and well that there are thousands of jobs on Monster and any other number of job websites. My sister's educational and experienced background is in the very niche field of assisting the mentally handicapped, and that field isn't so fortunate for thousands of jobs. My sister also applied to several jobs that were below what most teenagers deem worthy. In some instances, she wasn't hired because they told her she was overqualified. In some instances, they weren't feasible because she's still a mother and obviously, children require certain schedules. My mom works two jobs and while she's able to help in some instances, there's a lot of times that she can't take Hunter. Her dad is fucking worthless, and Brandi doesn't really have the option to just up and leave her daughter with nowhere to go while she goes to work. There's always the daycare option, sure, but as a parent you know that can be financially prohibitive, especially if you're getting paid minimum wage; it's counterproductive to work a job that pays just enough to cover daycare costs.

Even though she's plenty willing to take a job that's well beneath her great education and experience and literally applied to hundreds (that's not an exaggeration), we don't live in a perfect world. You aren't guaranteed employment when you submit an application.

The first part of his term he had a 60 seat majority in the Senate, control of the house, rammed through Obamacare with no GOP votes, and quite a few other unpopular bills. The bills that failed did so due to lack of Dem support, not GOP blockage, such as Cap and Trade.

Oh come on--you know as well as anyone else that the lack of Dem support for most of the failed bills were due to the provisions included to garner support from GOP members. Obamacare as it was passed falls into that same category. Many items that were passed were not what we were hoping for, and that kicked off an era of his base getting frustrated because his desire to be cool-headed and garner bi-partisan support was standing in the way of progress. The left was just happy to see something in the way of healthcare, even if it wasn't everything that was initially hoped for.

The attempts to appease to the right have only served to alienate the left and have bitten him in the ass. He tried from the start to govern from the center, but didn't take into account that governing from the center when you have an entire party of people that want you to fail.

Want him to ignore the legislative process? Okay, twist my words as you will--I don't expect supporters of the new fringe GOP to behave any differently than those they're supporting.

No, I never wanted him to ignore the legislative process, but I think he could've taken advantage of the first 2 years he had to get more done and I think he would've had he not constantly tried to make concessions to create a moderate image because it was never going to work with the political climate established in the 2008 campaign. To quote Tolstoy:

The most difficult subject can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt what is laid before him.

The right had their minds made up about him before he was even inaugurated.