GOP Presidential debate #3

[Spazz]

That is the biggest load of bullshit. I come from metro detroit. People here used to have a great standard of living. 2 cars cottage upnorth and money to blow. I wonder what happened to it. Oh thats right we decided to make everything in china and mexico. The reason why everyone is living beyond they means now is that they all make like 10 dollars an hour. Wages dont match cost of living and good paying jobs arent easy to come by. The problem is cheap goods came with a hell of a price tag. What we have now is great profits for the few and a huge cost to the many. That is what is unsustainable.

Ive got an old redneck buddy and he tells me that " the best son of a bitchin welfare program is a good job" I gotta say I agree with him.

[Lyion]

I think we need to take a look at Germany and see what they're doing that we're not.

I agree!

In 2009 Germany's constitution was amended to introduce the Schuldenbremse ("debt brake"), a balanced budget provision.[1] This will apply to both the federal government and the Länder (states). From 2016 onwards the federal government will be forbidden to run a deficit of more than 0.35% of gross domestic product (GDP). From 2020, the states will not be permitted to run any deficit at all.[2] The Basic Law permits an exception to be made for emergencies such as a natural disaster or severe economic crisis.

[Snero]

interesting move, although no chance it passes

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama, in a populist gesture designed to appeal to voters, will propose a "Buffett Tax" on people making more than $1 million a year as part of his deficit recommendations to Congress on Monday.

Such a proposal, among suggestions to a congressional Super Committee expected to seek up to $3 trillion in deficit savings over 10 years, would appeal to his Democratic base ahead of the 2012 election but likely not raise much in revenues.

White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer said in a tweet on Saturday the tax would act as "a kind of AMT" (Alternative Minimum Tax) aimed at ensuring millionaires pay at least as much tax as middle-class families.

The "Buffett Tax" refers to billionaire investor Warren Buffett, who wrote earlier this year that rich people like him often pay less in tax than those who work for them due to loopholes in the taxcode, and can afford to pay more.

Obama will lay out his recommendations in White House Rose Garden remarks at 10.30 am on Monday and is expected to urge steps to raise tax revenue as well as cuts in spending.

But Congress is at liberty to ignore his suggestions and

Republicans, who control the House of Representatives, have said that they will not agree to tax hikes.

The super committee of six Democrat and six Republican lawmakers must find at least $1.2 trillion in deficit savings before the end of the year to avoid painful automatic cuts, and is mandated to seek savings of up to $1.5 trillion.

These savings are on top of $917 billion in deficit reduction agreed in an August deal to raise the debt limit and Obama wants it to go further.

He has separately urged it to consider $450 billion in tax increases on top of this goal to pay for a jobs bill that he unveiled earlier this month.

The Buffett Tax could help energize Obama's base by highlighting a feature of the tax code that allows the super rich to pay lower rates of tax less wealthy Americans

because the bulk of their income is capital gains, dividends and the 'carried interest' earnings of hedge fund managers.

This is taxed at 15 percent, compared to rates of 10 to 35 percent on straightforward income.

[Harrison]

Politics, no real benefit will come of that from all I've read of it.

It certainly won't hurt, either.

[Arlos]

I would not normally pass on something that got forwarded to me from someone I know who gets mailings from MoveOn, but this seemed an actually really good idea.

Basically, the idea is, as a means of economic stimulus, to have the government forgive (ie, pay off) all student loans. This would put hundreds of dollars a month into the pockets of people who are almost certainly all in the middle or lower class, as rich people wouldn't have had to get loans in the first place. That means that all of those people would have that much more money to use towards other purposes, thus raising demand, and getting more money moving through the economy. (which everyone, left AND right agrees would be a good thing)

Now, my opinion of whether or not this is good thign might be altered depending on the COST of doing so, which I admit I have not seen. But what do you guys think?

-Arlos

[Lyion]

The Buffett Tax could help energize Obama's base by highlighting a feature of the tax code that allows the super rich to pay lower rates of tax less wealthy Americans

because the bulk of their income is capital gains, dividends and the 'carried interest' earnings of hedge fund managers.

I'd guess that's what he's doing, energizing his base.

The problem is capital gains aren't income. The bigger issue remains the tax code and it's loopholes. Even if they triple the tax, guys like Buffet still won't pay anything because they employ an army of accountants and lawyers for the purpose of taxes.

I'm not sure regarding student loan amnesty. I'd have to have more information to consider it. I do think with 15 trillion in debt our country shouldn't be sending much foreign aid out or forgiving many loans.

[Arlos]

Ahhh, but higher demand in the economy will mean more jobs, which means expanding the tax base, which means reducing the deficit. Everyone on both sides agrees that getting more people to work is essential to reducing the deficit, they just disagree on how to accomplish that. I just know that tax cuts are NOT the way to do it (as I mentioned before), so lets try something else, and something that provides immediate relief to millions of people in the middle class or lower seems like it might well be a good thing to try.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

Im gonna say I am totally against the govt paying off college debt. It wouldnt be fair so it wouldnt be right. I know a lot of people myself included that didnt go cuz they couldnt afford it or to take on the extra debt. Thats some bullshit. I want my handout or my free college too. How bout the govt pay every ones mortgage while there at it that would really ramp out middle class spending and create some demand. Or how bout the govt just cuts everyone a huge check. None of that shit is gonna fly.

[Menelvir]

Re: govt forgiveness of student loans

I'm not sure I think this is such a good idea. It might encourage the less productive segment of college-indebted borrowers to rest on their laurels (i.e. live off mom and dad, or whatever) a bit longer than they might have otherwise with the spectre of debt looming. If this happened then it would seem to have rather the opposite effect of what was intended - no new disposable income generated which could then be cycled back into the system.

Also, doing it once might set a bad precedent, even if the intent were to never do it again. ("You did it for these people, why not for me, too?")

It almost strikes me as similar to the concept of moral hazard for businesses - if a business knows the government will bail it out in the event of bankruptcy, it is more apt to engage in riskier financial behavior, and when the government does this, I think it does more harm than good, at least in the long-term.

Somewhat similarly, if a student believes that the government will absolve them of loan repayment responsibilities, it might encourage them to be more carefree with not only spending the money, but also future planning which likely would have centered on how to pay it back.

Still, I'm open to the possibility that it might have far-reaching benefits, if implemented properly.

[brinstar]

gains aren't income

wtf m8


and re: student loan amnesty

adding my voice to the apparent consensus - it's an intriguing idea, but if not implemented thoughtfully it could be quite disastrous. and as with any socialistic manœuvre there would obv need to be restrictions to prevent abuse