For all those "Drill Baby Drill" people

[Arlos]

THIS is why I laugh every time people claim that opening more domestic drilling will do a damn thing to lower prices here in the US:

Faced with sluggish sales at home, American refineries are shipping gasoline, diesel and other petroleum products abroad in record amounts, turning the country into a net exporter of fuel.

And that's one of the reasons gasoline now costs more than ever before, for this time of year.

The United States, long the world's most voracious consumer of fuel, still imports almost half of its crude oil, the raw material for gasoline and diesel. But starting in 2008, the country began exporting more refined petroleum products than it imported. And the gap keeps growing.

In the first nine months of this year, the United States exported 655 million barrels of finished petroleum products, including 121 million barrels of gasoline. At the same time, the country imported 264 million barrels of finished petroleum products, including 32 million barrels of gasoline, according to data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

The recession and tepid recovery have tempered America's thirst for gasoline, at the same time that drivers are turning toward more efficient cars. So refiners have sought - and found - eager markets for their fuel elsewhere. The exports, in turn, help prop up gasoline prices here.

Full article here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1fajsVraw

I call attention to the quote from oil company rep in the final paragraph:

"If the price in Europe is a dollar more per gallon, pre-tax, than what the United States is paying, and shipping is 50 cents, why in the world would I supply the United States?" said James Beck, lead analyst for the Energy Information Administration's weekly petroleum supply team.

So, for all you drill-first types: How, exactly, is opening up ANWR, or anywhere else for that matter, going to lower our gas prices at the pump? (Hint: it won't)

So what's the point, other than driving oil company profits to even MORE obscene levels? If there was a law passed that required oil companies to take all fuel they drill or refine in the US and SELL it here, instead of shipping it overseas, then maybe there might be a point. Since that obviously is NOT happening, however....

-Arlos

[brinstar]

one of the biggest lies about the keystone xl pipeline is that it will "increase north american energy security"

the FUCK it will - it's a goddamn export pipeline

less than 15% of the products resulting from the shit that pipe will send to gulf coast refineries will actually stay in the US

[Lyion]

The key problem is 'REFINING'. Many countries, such as Iran do not have refineries. We bring in oil, refine it and sell it. Until we aren't importing more than 1/2 the oil we use we'll be in bed with Opec. That has zero to do with speculation and commodities pricing.

The price of gas in Europe is the same here, which is the standard set by the market. The taxes added are different in other countries, just like they are different in various states.

Yes, more oil will lower the price of gas. Period. It's economics 101. It's why OPEC limits what they sell to try and artificially inflate the price. If we have zero need for Opec then the price will plummet and they'll beg us to take their oil, instead of the reverse. It'd be nice if we added a new refinery to speed up the process, too.

[Arlos]

Except that if we ramp up production, OPEC will just scale it back, to keep the levels flat. And they won't need to beg us to take their oil, there are now TONS of emerging markets that want it. Oh, and even if we developed every oil field we have, including ANWR, we wouldn't reach oil independence. That's a pipe dream. Even the biggest fields in ANWR are tiny compared to the really large fields elsewhere.

And I repeat what the article said: If they can make a 1cent a gallon profit over keeping it in the US, the oil companies will sell every drop they drill or refine elsewhere, thus not effecting the price here at all.

Again, if there were a law requiring all oil drilled in the US to be SOLD here in the US, I might be more open to the idea of risking further environmental damage. But since no such law exists, and since the oil will be sold that most benefits the oil companies, and not regular consumers, I remain dead-set against it, because IT WON'T BENEFIT US.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

This pisses me off.

[Arlos]

This pisses me off.

Figured it might. Do you understand a bit better now why I keep opposing new drilling, since this is what's going to happen to it all anyway? We get all the negatives, almost none of the positives. Seems like a bad deal to me.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

This pisses me off.

Figured it might. Do you understand a bit better now why I keep opposing new drilling, since this is what's going to happen to it all anyway? We get all the negatives, almost none of the positives. Seems like a bad deal to me.

-Arlos

. Absolutely, and it's a shame.

[Tossica]

This pisses me off.

We'll make a commie out of you yet!

[brinstar]

this is the danger that people like ron paul and all his flinkies don't like to talk about: pure unrestricted capitalism will fuck us sideways and lubeless if we let it

[Spazz]

Indeed Ron Paul and his cult are insane and would destroy the country in a heartbeat if given the chance. Not that we arent in bad shape now but I think if he had his way we would go out of the frying pan and into the fire so to speak.